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  1. #9841
    Extraordinary Member Robotman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    So he is basically doing "I'm rubber, you're glue."
    Ah yes the classic “I know you are but what am I?” strategy famously used in the Lincoln/Douglas debates. Or was it Herman v. Francis? Either way another master stroke from the stable genius.

  2. #9842
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tami View Post


    Trump's letter to the Turkish President
    I’m sure Erdogan got a good laugh out of that nonsense. Jesus H. Christ! I’m so damn tired of all this winning!
    Avatar: Here's to the late, great Steve Dillon. Best. Punisher. Artist. EVER!

  3. #9843
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE View Post
    Biden is also financially losing money and not fundraising well by most recent reports. So he's losing ground, he is losing in places that historically swing the primary, and money hasn't been looking good as it looks like a lot of donors aren't in love with him.

    Bernie helped get people elected that pushed for the Green New Deal. So now you have the most leftwing Democratic stage in history where even moderates have to give him credit on stage. And lets be honest, Obama was a Junior Senator when he ran in a primary against Biden and Hillary. You could have made the exact same argument of legislative accomplishments against him as well.

    Bernie polls well and does well in swing states. Biden does well with establishment Democrats in states that tend not to go Democrat and won't go Democrat if he wins. Right now his most commanding lead is South Carolina. I got news for you, he's not beating Trump in South Carolina in a general.
    First, Biden is losing his advantage, but I don't think it's accurate to say he's losing ground. His polling numbers have remained pretty steady. Warren's gains have been at the expense of other candidates, not Biden. That is an important distinction. You frame it as though Biden is losing people and he's simply not. Warren is, however, gaining people. Those are not the same thing.

    Second, Biden outpolls Sanders in every key swing state. Michigan. Florida . I'm going to stop posting links now because you can confirm it yourself, he's also better in: Ohio, Arizona, Pennsylvania, and North Carolina. They are pretty close in Colorado in Wisconsin. So I'm not sure where you get that claim but it is not supported by polling.

    Third, yes Bernie gets a lot of credit for shifting the conversation left. I've said that twice and he deserves much credit for that. He's also accomplished nothing as an elected official. There is just no way to spin out of that. You can claim he's some kind of political Jesus about being correct on things.....but despite all those correct thoughts he got none of them into a position to help Americans. You can complain about the majority, but at some point you find ways to work things through. Bernie has never been able to do that. Warren, much to her credit, HAS done that. Politics cannot be reduced to merely being "right" about ideology. Being a good politician eventually means you need to do good by the citizenry. In terms of policy, Warren (in a fraction of hte time as an elected official) has a MUCH better track record in that regard. So does Biden. Not that it is hard to do, being above "zero" is not typically a high bar.

  4. #9844
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theleviathan View Post
    First, Biden is losing his advantage, but I don't think it's accurate to say he's losing ground. His polling numbers have remained pretty steady. Warren's gains have been at the expense of other candidates, not Biden. That is an important distinction. You frame it as though Biden is losing people and he's simply not. Warren is, however, gaining people. Those are not the same thing.

    Second, Biden outpolls Sanders in every key swing state. Michigan. Florida . I'm going to stop posting links now because you can confirm it yourself, he's also better in: Ohio, Arizona, Pennsylvania, and North Carolina. They are pretty close in Colorado in Wisconsin. So I'm not sure where you get that claim but it is not supported by polling.

    Third, yes Bernie gets a lot of credit for shifting the conversation left. I've said that twice and he deserves much credit for that. He's also accomplished nothing as an elected official. There is just no way to spin out of that. You can claim he's some kind of political Jesus about being correct on things.....but despite all those correct thoughts he got none of them into a position to help Americans. You can complain about the majority, but at some point you find ways to work things through. Bernie has never been able to do that. Warren, much to her credit, HAS done that. Politics cannot be reduced to merely being "right" about ideology. Being a good politician eventually means you need to do good by the citizenry. In terms of policy, Warren (in a fraction of hte time as an elected official) has a MUCH better track record in that regard. So does Biden. Not that it is hard to do, being above "zero" is not typically a high bar.
    His polling numbers are staying steady but there's someone surging past him in states and getting incredibly close to the margin of error nationally. That's still dangerous for Biden because even if he isn't losing support at the current moment, it's showing that there is a block of voters that are not for Biden, that are for more moderate candidates like Kamala and Gillibrand, that don't want to vote for Biden and are going for someone more progressive than their first choice despite that. The other dangerous thing is we know that support Warren's got hasn't been coming from Bernie voters who have been pretty steady and stagnant as well. What that generally suggests is that there are more people looking for alternatives to Biden and that he's not viewed as the safe pragmatic choice when their first choice fails. That's bad on the front that Biden isn't gaining support when other establishment level candidates fall, and that aside from Biden the two next biggest blocks that have either stayed steady or increased are from two progressives who are ideologically opposed to him.

    I said Bernie does well in swing states not that he is polling better than Biden... Biden has an advantage of being the biggest name and being tied to a popular President. Bernie is top 3 in all those states. So this idea that he has no appeal there isn't really accurate. He does. Biden just does as well. But Biden polls strongest in Southern states. Florida is the biggest swing state advantage he has. That's still a toss up at best in a general. Then the other states he has his largest leads are all Southern states that will not go Democratic. When only three canidates are polling at double digits in swing states and Sanders is one, it's hard to say he has less appeal there. Especially again when both him and Warren are ideologically similar and are likely to be splitting that voting block which may consolidated when it gets to that particular primary (IE Sanders or Warren drops out, even if you get 60/40 split in most swing states of them going for the other progressive vs Biden, it still gives them an edge). Meanwhile the other establishment caniddates in those states are doing poorly so there isn't much for Biden to draw on and we are seeing evidence that when they do bow out, they have been fleeing to Warren. I'm pointing out that it is inaccurate to paint Bernie as weak in swing states. The primary field is huge right now and it's a long way out. Bernie has historially been very popular there. In the context of this primary with over 10 candidates the divides favor Biden at the moment, but there's a very real probability that Biden is at or near his ceiling in a lot of those states and the winner of Sanders vs Warren is going to surpass him.

    Bernie's accomplished things and been part of some important pieces of legislation. The idea he accomplished nothing is silly. It's not about being a political Jesus. It's about if you are weighing accomplishmemts you have to contextualize them. Biden was usually part of the majority. Therefore when the Democrats had power he was attached to some legislative achievments. That was inevitable in many respects. So you have to look at what those achievments are. Some good things came out of the coalitions Biden was part of. Some horrible things came out of the coalistions Biden was part of. Some great things came out of the Obama administration that Biden pushed against and then took credit for being part of later. That suggests that Biden's accomplishments have less to do with his vision and more to do with buddying up to the winning side right or wrong. So when Biden becomes President and he is the one with the final decision, is he going to push against good legislation the way he sometimes did in the Obama admin? Is he going to make some of the disasterous mistakes he made in the past? Or do I get the more benevolent Biden who has the unfortunate side effect of feeling the need to be part of bad shit. That's why Bernie has a very hard following. Those questions do not exist with Bernie. You have to worry about the decision Biden might make. And he could make the wrong and get it through like he has in the past. Bernie might struggle to get some things through, but you don't have to worry that he'll be successful in getting something terrible through.

    Your worst case with Bernie Presidency is

    1. He isn't Trump.
    2. Will undo alot of what Trump did
    3. May at the end of the day not get much of a good agenda accomplished but will likely make it more prevalent and popular for someone after him to pick up the baton.
    4. And even if he doesn't get much done, he'll still be insanely popular and will have a huge base of support that will be engaged and continue the fight.

    Your worst case with Biden is he is an underwhelming centrist who does some godawful things that make people lose enthusiasm and open the door for Republicans to win back Congress and win the Presidency immediately after his term.

    So yeah it's easy to say "Biden has gotten shit done". But I have to worry about what he might get done and I have to worry who it might hurt and I have to worry that it ends with us being in the same position again.

    Like I said, I prefer Warren because I think she has a better track record of producing a conensus overall and won't have 2016 battle fatigue Bernie has. But if it's a one or the other of Bernie vs Biden (which it currently isn't, Warren is there) then the answer is I have to worry about one and not about the other. And it's easy to poo poo on that, but we saw this play out in Clinton vs Obama in 2008. Clinton had an overwhelming lead going in, Obama didn't have much of a track record, but people felt more comfortable with the person who didn't have a list of mistakes.

    TLDR: Biden having gotten things through doesn't impress me because of the context of it and the results of some of it and I have to question what he will ultimately do when he has the final say because he would have weakened the Obama admin if he had the final say.

  5. #9845
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE View Post
    What that generally suggests is that there are more people looking for alternatives to Biden and that he's not viewed as the safe pragmatic choice when their first choice fails. That's bad on the front that Biden isn't gaining support when other establishment level candidates fall, and that aside from Biden the two next biggest blocks that have either stayed steady or increased are from two progressives who are ideologically opposed to him.

    I said Bernie does well in swing states not that he is polling better than Biden... Biden has an advantage of being the biggest name and being tied to a popular President. Bernie is top 3 in all those states. So this idea that he has no appeal there isn't really accurate.

    Bernie's accomplished things and been part of some important pieces of legislation. The idea he accomplished nothing is silly. It's not about being a political Jesus. It's about if you are weighing accomplishmemts you have to contextualize them.

    Your worst case with Bernie Presidency is 2. Will undo alot of what Trump did
    First, I agree that Biden is not comfortable by any stretch. Warren's gains do speak to voters looking for alternatives as you suggest. I'm simply pointing out that steady support is also an asset. How the first few primaries shake out will tell us a lot, as well as what happens as some candidates drop out.

    Second, your post insinuated the lead Biden had was in states that wouldn't go blue anyway. Biden polls strongly in all swing states. Significantly moreso than Bernie and more consistently than Bernie or even Warren at this point. I don't think the dismissive tone you took in that other post to Biden and swing states is at all supported by the polling numbers. You tried to give credit to Bernie in swing states and dismiss Biden's appealing to non-winnable states. That is simply a false characterization. I never said he didn't have appeal. I said he has less appeal. That's a true statement as of today.

    Third, I am contextualizing Biden's accomplishments. He gets savaged for the crime bill, yet that was a direct response to overwhelming appeals by the black community at the time. Many of his mistakes you cite, are not nearly as egregious in their context. Likewise, some of what he claims responsibility for are not his alone to take credit for. Often, as you say, he should get barely any credit beyond being a part of a majority. But Bernie has found no way to accomplish anything to help Americans. And it took several decades in office for him to even push the conversation effectively. He doesn't know how to compromise and find paths forward and it's rather evident in his rhetoric. (Which may just be Bernie 2016 on loop with him lip synching) Warren, by contrast, HAS found ways to make her ideas politically viable.

    Hence the real worst case scenario: Bernie continues to have no ability to make his ideas viable, yet the mere threat of it pushes the country right. Not only will it cause Republicans victories, we won't even have anything to show for it.

  6. #9846
    Mighty Member Mecegirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tami View Post


    Trump originally Tweeted this image, saying it was Pelosi having a problem.

    Nancy got back at him by placing the image in her Twitter Profile
    She looks like she's giving him a much needed chewing out.

    But god damn, that is a super monochromatic room.

  7. #9847
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    Quote Originally Posted by WestPhillyPunisher View Post
    I’m sure Erdogan got a good laugh out of that nonsense. Jesus H. Christ! I’m so damn tired of all this winning!
    When I first read that, I thought it was someone doing a parody of a letter written by Trump. But no, this is our ignoramus in chief. It just shows how limited his understanding of the job of president is....everything is a deal.

  8. #9848

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tami View Post


    Trump originally Tweeted this image, saying it was Pelosi having a problem.

    Nancy got back at him by placing the image in her Twitter Profile
    The quote Pelosi threw in his face there was, per Lawrence O'Donnell:

    "All roads with you lead to Putin."
    X-Books Forum Mutant Tracker/FAQ- Updated every Tuesday.

  9. #9849
    Extraordinary Member Malvolio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tami View Post


    Trump's letter to the Turkish President
    "I have worked hard to solve some of your problems." Yeah, right. Trump hasn't worked hard at anything. Ever.

  10. #9850
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    Nancy Pelosi Hilariously Trolls Trump With New Pic On Twitter Profile

    The president tried to insult the House speaker with a photo. It’s now featured proudly on her Twitter page. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. See below:



    **********

    Republicans Rage At Trump’s Syria Policy With Little To Show For It

    They huffed and they puffed and, well, they’re still not standing up to Trump. Well, D-UH! Of course not! Republicans are in too deep with Trump to call him out on his dangerously foolish move.

    **********

    Mitch McConnell Prepares For Impeachment Trial In The Senate

    The chamber could take up articles of impeachment against President Donald Trump as early as next month. I wonder what nefarious shit Moscow Mitch will pull to torpedo the hearings?

    **********

    Never-Before-Seen Trump Tax Documents Show Major Inconsistencies

    The president’s businesses made themselves appear more profitable to lenders and less profitable to tax officials. One expert calls the differing numbers “versions of fraud.” Trump? Committing fraud? Say it ain't so!

    **********

    NRA Silent On Atatiana Jefferson’s Killing

    Police fatally shot a lawful gun owner who’d done nothing wrong and was in her own home. Why hasn’t the NRA come to her defense? Perhaps they know that's a dead end street with no upside for the organization.
    Avatar: Here's to the late, great Steve Dillon. Best. Punisher. Artist. EVER!

  11. #9851
    Extraordinary Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Congressman Elijah Cummings has passed away.

  12. #9852
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    While I'd hope this wind up being some kind of a misunderstanding, it seems like Elijah Cummings might have passed.

    Seen it reported in at least a couple of places now.

    - https://twitter.com/AnneKramerWBAL/s...52711394299904

  13. #9853
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    While I'd hope this wind up being some kind of a misunderstanding, it seems like Elijah Cummings might have passed.

    Seen it reported in at least a couple of places now.

    - https://twitter.com/AnneKramerWBAL/s...52711394299904
    Sadly, it's true. I've heard reports of Mr. Cummings having passed on my local all-news radio station. here's more:

    US Rep. Elijah Cummings of Baltimore has died
    Avatar: Here's to the late, great Steve Dillon. Best. Punisher. Artist. EVER!

  14. #9854
    Guardian Empress of Earth Tami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WestPhillyPunisher View Post
    Sadly, it's true. I've heard reports of Mr. Cummings having passed on my local all-news radio station. here's more:

    US Rep. Elijah Cummings of Baltimore has died
    Just heard.
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  15. #9855
    "Comic Book Reviewer" InformationGeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WestPhillyPunisher View Post
    Sadly, it's true. I've heard reports of Mr. Cummings having passed on my local all-news radio station. here's more:

    US Rep. Elijah Cummings of Baltimore has died
    Damn. Really liked that guy. Im gonna expect nothing from the White House which is gone since all of his cabinet is probably hiding his phone.



    Meanwhile Tulsi is propping up Project Veritas on Tucker Carlson's show. WBE, is this clown getting a profile come April 1st?

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