All Purpose News and Politics Thread Part IV: The Center Cannot Hold

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

I’ve previously said that the ONE thing Trump fears more than anything on this planet, perhaps more than even losing his wealth is losing his freedom, and, judging from what came out in the Mueller Report, prison would all but be a certainty if he’s taken to court, and the presidency is the only thing potentially keeping him from the big house. As for the question of if Republicans would support Trump if he tried to cancel next year’s election, yeah, I think they would. The GOP as a whole is too far gone to be redeemed, drunk on power, greed, immortality, hate, the whole nine ugly and insane yards, so why not set fire to the Constitution and flush democracy as we know it down the toilet? Their shameful silence after Trump’s racist tweets yesterday showed Republicans have fully cast their lot with the Orange Menace and will die with him, and take the country to hell with them.

I don't want to be the Debbie downer. But he has nothing to worry about in my opinion. He is so popular amongst such a large segment of Republicans that the minute any Republicans get in power again (and the ones that have power now) will do everything they can to protect him. The entire party is afraid of him going after them and they are afraid of his supporters.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Think. In the post - 9/11 days, there was a great deal of unity for a period of time and many people, myself included, felt you had to support the President. Everyone feared another attack was being planned. Just about everyone went along with the story about the WMDs

Okay... Thirty makes a good point here though. The Republicans supported the war without question the same as the Democrats. The same as most citizens (support for the war was at 70% at one point). Not to mention the media who was all for it.

There were select few that were on the right side of history at the crucial moments of that war that didn't go with the politically popular position. I think that says something about them, and it says something about the ones who weren't

[Tami]

Five miles from the Virginia Capitol, a pregnant woman is shot right after failed gun debate

“My heart just dropped once again,” Stoney said. “These are the hardest messages to receive. Not only are you talking about the woman’s life, but you’re talking about the life of the child or the pregnancy that was endangered. It’s a lot.”

Republicans’ decision to postpone debate until after the November election enraged Democrats and disappointed gun-control advocates, who saw the special session — called by Gov. Ralph Northam (D) in the wake of the Virginia Beach massacre — as an opportunity to end decades of deadlock.

Republicans dismissed Northam’s move as “political theater” designed to divert attention from his blackface scandal. The governor responded by saying that “an average of three Virginians die each day due to gun violence. That means hundreds of Virginians may die between today and November 18, the next day the legislature plans to work.”

[ed2962]

I wonder if that 2015 suspension from FOX News was because of the actual substance of her statement, or because she uttered the word, "****."

BTW, does she really have anywhere else to go? I mean, the only other place I've seen her since the Clueless TV series was one of the Sharknado sequels.

Think about that for a moment...you cough up stereotypical conservative talking points, yet somehow make them sound even dumber and Fox News thinks you're too toxic. I'm not sure even Prager U will take her.

[numberthirty]

Ok...

While I guess I get the reason that folks want to avoid entertaining "Democrats Are For Open Borders..." discussion, is there any reason that more folks aren't wondering about the distinct lack of specific plans among the Democratic candidates running for the nomination when it comes to the reason why folks are coming North or making asylum claims?

Are the root causes just going to magically disappear if a Democrat wins the Presidency? Jacked up United States drug policy somehow magically stop being an issue?

Sure, there is some discussion of how economic aid impacts the situation, but it's not like there was no one to deport during former President Obama's term.

[numberthirty]

Think about that for a moment...you cough up stereotypical conservative talking points, yet somehow make them sound even dumber and Fox News thinks you're too toxic. I'm not sure even Prager U will take her.

While I don't want to will an issue into existence, I cannot believe that the current administration has not found a job for her yet.

[aja_christopher]

Okay... Thirty makes a good point here though. The Republicans supported the war without question the same as the Democrats. The same as most citizens (support for the war was at 70% at one point). Not to mention the media who was all for it.

There were select few that were on the right side of history at the crucial moments of that war that didn't go with the politically popular position. I think that says something about them, and it says something about the ones who weren't

There's a world of difference between lying to others and being lied to by others -- the Republicans were the liars and the Democrats (and other American citizens) were the ones being lied to in that situation by Republicans regarding WMDs and Saddam's weapons capabilities in general.



It's fine if you want to hold the Democrats accountable for those votes, but let's not pretend "both sides" were equally responsible for said war, especially when it's far easier to see those lies in retrospect.

[numberthirty]

There's a world of difference between lying to others and being lied to by others -- the Republicans were the liars and the Democrats (and other American citizens) were the ones being lied to in that situation by Republicans regarding WMDs and Saddam's weapons capabilities in general.

It's fine if you want to hold the Democrats accountable for those votes, but let's not pretend "both sides" were equally responsible for said war.

Nothing about this post changes that it is probably incredibly unlikely that all Republicans were in government in on said lie. That is what would be needed for them to actually have been looking the other way.

[aja_christopher]

Nothing about this post changes that it is probably incredibly unlikely that all Republicans were in government in on said lie. That is what would be needed for them to actually have been looking the other way.

And nothing about your post disproves that you'll always try to find a way to slam Democrats even if it's based on the same old "both sides are the same" nonsense.

As for the Republicans "looking the other way" their reaction to Trump's frequent lies and racist comments prove otherwise -- whether they knew it was a lie or not, they would have supported it on party lines alone.

-------
This is a list of U.S. Senators and Representatives who have taken a clear stand in opposition to the Iraq War (including those who initially voted to authorize the war but subsequently turned strongly against it).

Name Current/Last Held Party Date First in U.S. Congressional Office Iraq Resolution

Neil Abercrombie Democratic September 20, 1986 Against
Daniel Akaka Democratic January 3, 1977 Against
Doug Bereuter Republican January 3, 1979 For
Jeff Bingaman Democratic January 3, 1983 Against
Earl Blumenauer Democratic May 21, 1996 Against
Barbara Boxer Democratic January 3, 1983 Against
Sherrod Brown Democratic January 5, 1993 Against
Robert Byrd Democratic January 3, 1959 Against
Lois Capps Democratic March 17, 1998 Against
Lincoln Chafee Independent November 2, 1999 Against
Steve Cohen Democratic January 4, 2007
Kent Conrad Democratic-NPL January 6, 1987 Against
John Conyers Democratic January 4, 1965 Against
Jon Corzine Democratic January 3, 2001 Against
Mark Dayton Democratic-Farmer-Labor January 3, 2001 Against
Peter DeFazio Democratic January 3, 1987 Against
Bill Delahunt Democratic January 3, 1997 Against
Lloyd Doggett Democratic 1995 Against
Jimmy Duncan Republican November 8, 1988 Against
Dick Durbin Democratic January 3, 1983 Against
Keith Ellison Democratic-Farmer-Labor January 4, 2007
Sam Farr Democratic June 8, 1993 Against
Chaka Fattah Democratic January 3, 1995 Against
Russ Feingold Democratic January 5, 1993 Against
Barney Frank Democratic January 5, 1981 Against
Bob Graham Democratic January 3, 1987 Against
Chuck Hagel Republican January 7, 1997 For
Maurice Hinchey Democratic January 3, 1993 Against
Rush D. Holt, Jr. Democratic January 3, 1999 Against
John Hostettler Republican January 3, 1995 Against
Daniel Inouye Democratic August 21, 1959 Against
Jim Jeffords Independent January 3, 1975 Against
Eddie Bernice Johnson Democratic January 3, 1993 Against
Walter B. Jones Republican January 3, 1995 For
Ted Kennedy Democratic November 7, 1962 Against
John Kerry Democratic January 2, 1985 For
Dennis Kucinich Democratic January 3, 1997 Against
Patrick Leahy Democratic January 14, 1975 Against
Barbara Lee Democratic April 7, 1998 Against
Carl Levin Democratic January 15, 1979 Against
John Lewis Democratic January 6, 1987 Against
Jim McDermott Democratic January 3, 1989 Against
Jim McGovern Democratic January 3, 1997 Against
Cynthia McKinney Green Party January 7, 1997 Against
Bob Menendez Democratic January 5, 1993 Against
Jeff Merkley Democratic January 3, 2009
Barbara Mikulski Democratic January 3, 1977 Against
George Miller Democratic January 14, 1975 Against
Jim Moran Democratic January 3, 1991 Against
Patrick Murphy Democratic January 4, 2007
Patty Murray Democratic January 5, 1993 Against
John Murtha Democratic February 5, 1974 For
Barack Obama Democratic January 4, 2005
Ron Paul Republican January 3, 1979 Against
Nancy Pelosi Democratic June 2, 1987 Against
Jack Reed Democratic January 3, 1991 Against
Jay Rockefeller Democratic January 15, 1985 For
Bobby Rush Democratic January 3, 1993 Against
Tim Ryan Democratic January 3, 2003
Bernie Sanders Independent January 3, 1991 Against
Paul Sarbanes Democratic January 3, 1971 Against
Jan Schakowsky Democratic January 6, 1999 Against
José Serrano Democratic March 20, 1990 Against
Debbie Stabenow Democratic January 7, 1997 Against
Pete Stark Democratic January 3, 1973 Against
Maxine Waters Democratic January 3, 1991 Against
Diane Watson Democratic June 5, 2001 Against
Jim Webb Democratic January 3, 2007
Paul Wellstone Democratic-Farmer-Labor January 3, 1991 Against
Robert Wexler Democratic January 3, 1997 For
Sheldon Whitehouse Democratic January 3, 2007
Lynn Woolsey Democratic January 3, 1993 Against
Ron Wyden Democratic January 3, 1981 Against

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...f_the_Iraq_War

[numberthirty]

And nothing about your post disproves that you'll always try to find a way to slam Democrats even if it's based on the same old "both sides are the same" nonsense.

As for the Republicans "looking the other way" their reaction to Trump's racist comments today (and nearly every other day) prove otherwise -- whether they knew it was a lie or not, they would have supported it regardless.

-------

This is a list of U.S. Senators and Representatives who have taken a clear stand in opposition to the Iraq War (including those who initially voted to authorize the war but subsequently turned strongly against it).

Name Current/Last Held Party Date First in U.S. Congressional Office Iraq Resolution[1][2]

Neil Abercrombie Democratic September 20, 1986 Against
Daniel Akaka Democratic January 3, 1977 Against
Doug Bereuter Republican January 3, 1979 For
Jeff Bingaman Democratic January 3, 1983 Against
Earl Blumenauer Democratic May 21, 1996 Against
Barbara Boxer Democratic January 3, 1983 Against
Sherrod Brown Democratic January 5, 1993 Against
Robert Byrd Democratic January 3, 1959 Against
Lois Capps Democratic March 17, 1998 Against
Lincoln Chafee Independent November 2, 1999 Against
Steve Cohen Democratic January 4, 2007
Kent Conrad Democratic-NPL January 6, 1987 Against
John Conyers Democratic January 4, 1965 Against
Jon Corzine Democratic January 3, 2001 Against
Mark Dayton Democratic-Farmer-Labor January 3, 2001 Against
Peter DeFazio Democratic January 3, 1987 Against
Bill Delahunt Democratic January 3, 1997 Against
Lloyd Doggett Democratic 1995 Against
Jimmy Duncan Republican November 8, 1988 Against
Dick Durbin Democratic January 3, 1983 Against
Keith Ellison Democratic-Farmer-Labor January 4, 2007
Sam Farr Democratic June 8, 1993 Against
Chaka Fattah Democratic January 3, 1995 Against
Russ Feingold Democratic January 5, 1993 Against
Barney Frank Democratic January 5, 1981 Against
Bob Graham Democratic January 3, 1987 Against
Chuck Hagel Republican January 7, 1997 For
Maurice Hinchey Democratic January 3, 1993 Against
Rush D. Holt, Jr. Democratic January 3, 1999 Against
John Hostettler Republican January 3, 1995 Against
Daniel Inouye Democratic August 21, 1959 Against
Jim Jeffords Independent January 3, 1975 Against
Eddie Bernice Johnson Democratic January 3, 1993 Against
Walter B. Jones Republican January 3, 1995 For
Ted Kennedy Democratic November 7, 1962 Against
John Kerry Democratic January 2, 1985 For
Dennis Kucinich Democratic January 3, 1997 Against
Patrick Leahy Democratic January 14, 1975 Against
Barbara Lee Democratic April 7, 1998 Against
Carl Levin Democratic January 15, 1979 Against
John Lewis Democratic January 6, 1987 Against
Jim McDermott Democratic January 3, 1989 Against
Jim McGovern Democratic January 3, 1997 Against
Cynthia McKinney Green Party January 7, 1997 Against
Bob Menendez Democratic January 5, 1993 Against
Jeff Merkley Democratic January 3, 2009
Barbara Mikulski Democratic January 3, 1977 Against
George Miller Democratic January 14, 1975 Against
Jim Moran Democratic January 3, 1991 Against
Patrick Murphy Democratic January 4, 2007
Patty Murray Democratic January 5, 1993 Against
John Murtha Democratic February 5, 1974 For
Barack Obama Democratic January 4, 2005
Ron Paul Republican January 3, 1979 Against
Nancy Pelosi Democratic June 2, 1987 Against
Jack Reed Democratic January 3, 1991 Against
Jay Rockefeller Democratic January 15, 1985 For
Bobby Rush Democratic January 3, 1993 Against
Tim Ryan Democratic January 3, 2003
Bernie Sanders Independent January 3, 1991 Against
Paul Sarbanes Democratic January 3, 1971 Against
Jan Schakowsky Democratic January 6, 1999 Against
José Serrano Democratic March 20, 1990 Against
Debbie Stabenow Democratic January 7, 1997 Against
Pete Stark Democratic January 3, 1973 Against
Maxine Waters Democratic January 3, 1991 Against
Diane Watson Democratic June 5, 2001 Against
Jim Webb Democratic January 3, 2007
Paul Wellstone Democratic-Farmer-Labor January 3, 1991 Against
Robert Wexler Democratic January 3, 1997 For
Sheldon Whitehouse Democratic January 3, 2007
Lynn Woolsey Democratic January 3, 1993 Against
Ron Wyden Democratic January 3, 1981 Against

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...f_the_Iraq_War

So, your saying you don't have any actual proof that every Republican in Congress was in on the lie?

In addition, could you go into specifics on exactly how Rep. James Leach fit into spreading said lie?

[Mister Mets]

This is what Democrats believe, they'll just never admit it; you know it's true, and nothing anyone says will ever convince you otherwise. There's no arguing with that. It just completely shuts down the discussion.

There's a lot that can convince me otherwise. Someone can point to prominent Democrats expressing some clearly defined limiting principle on legal immigration. Or they can provide an answer to a question I've had for a while: If Democrats haven't expressed opinions on a limiting principle on legal immigration, what should we infer from the silence, and why should we infer that?

[aja_christopher]

So, your saying you don't have any actual proof that every Republican in Congress was in on the lie?

Nope -- I'm saying that they support liars (like Bush and Trump) regardless so it's a moot point of argument, while likewise pointing out that Republicans were the main ones supporting the war that they initiated based on false documentation and providing an extensive list of Democrats that were against it.

Which you will ignore because the facts don't line up with your need to attack the Democratic party at nearly every opportunity.

[numberthirty]

And nothing about your post disproves that you'll always try to find a way to slam Democrats even if it's based on the same old "both sides are the same" nonsense.

...

Put simply, it's actually about that I doubt that anyone in Congress had full knowledge of that a legitimate lie was in progress and voted for it even though they knew. Which is clearly what they would need to actually be "Looking The Other Way..."

No slam on Democrats because I honestly think that they probably had roughly the same level of insight.

Do I think that the specific folks in the Executive branch lied? Sure. I just doubt that Republicans in Congress were in on it and staying mum to go into an ill-advised war.

Actually, I can say for a fact that at least two Congressional Republicans did the opposite.

[aja_christopher]

There's a lot that can convince me otherwise. Someone can point to prominent Democrats expressing some clearly defined limiting principle on legal immigration. Or they can provide an answer to a question I've had for a while: If Democrats haven't expressed opinions on a limiting principle on legal immigration, what should we infer from the silence, and why should we infer that?

We should infer that you keep asking a hypothetical question to avoid discussing the unhypothetical truth that your party is essentially a corrupt, racist criminal cabal that abuses children for votes.

[aja_christopher]

Put simply, it's actually about that I doubt that anyone in Congress had full knowledge of that a legitimate lie was in progress and voted for it even though they knew. Which is clearly what they would need to actually be "Looking The Other Way..."

No slam on Democrats because I honestly think that they probably had roughly the same level of insight.

Do I think that the specific folks in the Executive branch lied? Sure. I just doubt that Republicans in Congress were in on it and staying mum to go into an ill-advised war.

Actually, I can say for a fact that at least two Congressional Republicans did the opposite.

Fair enough.

You choose to give them the benefit of the doubt while (based on their record) I don't.

Like Paul Ryan once said about Trump's Russian connections, it's all in the family.