All Purpose News and Politics Thread Part IV: The Center Cannot Hold

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I do love friendly debates with right wing friends like the Jim Acosta situation where last year Trump cowardly used a doctored video to try and ban him. Others there came to the reporters defense and said the administration was lying. Then experts showed that they were using a doctored clip to do this.

Anyhow I posted the NRP/AP news pieces showing experts had said the clip was doctored . As a response I was given youtube links to listen to some guy rant about it as a way of defense of Trump. Also Acosta is an ******* anyhow. Like ...that doesn't mean our leaders should try and frame a reporter because you don't wanna answer his questions.

[4saken1]

It is debatable if tax cuts stimulate the economy enough to justify their effect on the budget. Long term deficits also have consequences.

Yep! They are good for stimulating the economy short term, but shouldn't be considered as long term policy because of the reasons you stated. It's kinda like giving somebody penicillin when they've got an infection, then just deciding to keep them on it indefinitely.

[Tami]

White man will doom us all.

What does this say about some of Sander's supporters? I think it says that they are from the 'Chaos Party', voters whose only agenda is to cause chaos, discord, and disruption of society.

I think that most of Trump's base, his core supporters, are like that. They enjoy watching the show and want to see more chaos regardless of the cost.

It may only be a small percentage, but there are enough to be worrisome.

[Kusanagi]

What does this say about some of Sander's supporters? I think it says that they are from the 'Chaos Party', voters whose only agenda is to cause chaos, discord, and disruption of society.

I think that most of Trump's base, his core supporters, are like that. They enjoy watching the show and want to see more chaos regardless of the cost.

It may only be a small percentage, but there are enough to be worrisome.

They're basically the types that say down with the status quo, without actually having an idea what they want to replace the status quo, or any care if what follows is worse. It doesn't matter to them that on policy Sanders/Warren are damn close, she's the "Status Quo" by their looney definition.

Hopefully this is a smaller percentage than the poll leads on, but I've mostly given up on the electorate.

[Tami]

Trump called on spy chiefs for help as Mueller probe began

WASHINGTON (AP) — Two months before special counsel Robert Mueller was appointed in the spring of 2017, President Donald Trump picked up the phone and called the head of the largest U.S. intelligence agency. Trump told Mike Rogers, director of the National Security Agency, that news stories alleging that Trump’s 2016 White House campaign had ties to Russia were false and the president asked whether Rogers could do anything to counter them.

Rogers and his deputy Richard Ledgett, who was present for the call, were taken aback.

Afterward, Ledgett wrote a memo about the conversation and Trump’s request. He and Rogers signed it and stashed it in a safe. Ledgett said it was the “most unusual thing he had experienced in 40 years of government service.”

[JCAll]

What does this say about some of Sander's supporters? I think it says that they are from the 'Chaos Party', voters whose only agenda is to cause chaos, discord, and disruption of society.

I think that most of Trump's base, his core supporters, are like that. They enjoy watching the show and want to see more chaos regardless of the cost.

It may only be a small percentage, but there are enough to be worrisome.

I think it's just the cult of personality. Just like how Trump Supporters won't automatically support Pence even though he would pass all the same legislation.

[Kevinroc]

I think it's just the cult of personality. Just like how Trump Supporters won't automatically support Pence even though he would pass all the same legislation.

Pence has no charisma. I have no idea how he was elected to any office in the first place.

[Mister Mets]

Honest question, when is the last time a Federal Republican Presidential administration has reduced the debt?

This is why I think fiscal conservatism is a scam and a lie, conservatives complain about the debt in opposition, but when in power, they intentionally drive up with through massive military spending, upper-class tax cuts and whatever other pet projects they have, to cut funding for social programs.

https://www.pri.org/stories/2018-10-...cit-hawks-gone

https://www.forbes.com/sites/stancol.../#562159b74694

https://newrepublic.com/article/1470...will-never-die

This is not incompetent, it's not a mistake, it's on purpose, it's by design, the GOP benefits by having the deficit around, to use as a club against the Dems when in opposition. This why I do not take fiscal conservatives seriously, they are either in on the scam and

Also, can you answer why the US spends more on health care than other Western democracies and has worse outcomes?

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/sto...alth-outcomes/

If socialized medicine is so bad, why do these countries spend less money on health care? The GOP benefits from the waste in the American system, they have no desire to turn it around, despite their protests to contrary. Actions speak louder then words and the GOP's actions prove that fiscal conservatism is a sham.

You don't seem to be responding to my specific points, so I'm getting the impression you want someone conservative to explain their view on fiscal issues that matter to you. I'll do my best, although these are complex issues on which people have written books, and at the very least, extensive articles.

I'd agree Republicans are failing to be fiscally responsible. It's not a scam as much as it is politicians having an easier time make promising than governing, and Trump deciding that McCain and Romney lost largely because they ran on messages of fiscal responsibility, which leads him to go in a different direction. In a two party system, it doesn't immediately follow that Republicans who wish the party could be more fiscally responsible would support the Democrats, or find their policies fiscally responsible.

As for health care costs, it's a combination of perverse incentives (hospitals inflating prices of procedures in order to provide "discounts" to insurers), the high cost of living in the US, payment for an extensive bureaucracy, financial support for Research & Development, unnecessary prodcedures and expectations of a high level of care. Some of this is good, and some of it should be fixed.

The relatively poor outcomes have a variety of contributing factors: high poverty rate within the US, variations in reporting (IE- If a child dies in its first day of life in France it is legally considered a stillbirth), higher obesity rated, and the difficulties in managing a large heterogeneous country.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/physici.../#329ac24f1232

What does this say about some of Sander's supporters? I think it says that they are from the 'Chaos Party', voters whose only agenda is to cause chaos, discord, and disruption of society.

I think that most of Trump's base, his core supporters, are like that. They enjoy watching the show and want to see more chaos regardless of the cost.

It may only be a small percentage, but there are enough to be worrisome.

There may be some voters who want disruption, but a bigger force is voters who are tired of the status quo. In the Republican primaries, they backed Ron Paul in 2008 and 2012, and Trump in 2016, even if their agendas were different. This would be where some potential overlap exists between Trump supporters and Sanders supporters. They want to see politicians trying something bold, and are willing to support very different types of figures until they get positive results. This isn't necessarily rational, and may be based on inflated expectations over what a President can do.

I do love friendly debates with right wing friends like the Jim Acosta situation where last year Trump cowardly used a doctored video to try and ban him. Others there came to the reporters defense and said the administration was lying. Then experts showed that they were using a doctored clip to do this.

Anyhow I posted the NRP/AP news pieces showing experts had said the clip was doctored . As a response I was given youtube links to listen to some guy rant about it as a way of defense of Trump. Also Acosta is an ******* anyhow. Like ...that doesn't mean our leaders should try and frame a reporter because you don't wanna answer his questions.

There was a different argument that the video wasn't doctored, but that it was changed in the process of converting a gif into a zoomed-in mp4. This explains the discrepancy without any intentional doctoring.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article...-sarah-sanders

[worstblogever]

White man will doom us all.

What does this say about some of Sander's supporters? I think it says that they are from the 'Chaos Party', voters whose only agenda is to cause chaos, discord, and disruption of society.

That, or sexism plays a role.

Why, I think I may have seen a die-hard Berner or two say terrible things in Sen. Sanders' defense online. Or defend Bernie shrugging off rampant sexual harassment of female staffers in his 2016 campaign by senior staff as "not a big deal".

[numberthirty]

That, or sexism plays a role.

Why, I think I may have seen a die-hard Berner or two say terrible things in Sen. Sanders' defense online. Or defend Bernie shrugging off rampant sexual harassment of female staffers in his 2016 campaign by senior staff as "not a big deal".

Or...

https://emersonpolling.reportablenew...te-on-the-move

Data was collected using both an Interactive Voice Response (IVR) system of landlines only (n=599) and an online panel provided by Amazon Turk (n=315).

Data collected that way might not provide an accurate look at the big picture.

[PaulBullion]

Or...

https://emersonpolling.reportablenew...te-on-the-move



Data collected that way might not provide an accurate look at the big picture.

So you are saying that kind of polling would poll more "chaos minded" voters than other kinds? Would you explain what hypotheses you base that on?

[PaulBullion]

Meanwhile, the Kansas fascist party is trying to undermine the will of the voters:

GOP legislation would curtail Kelly’s power to fill vacancies that could be upcoming

[numberthirty]

So you are saying that kind of polling would poll more "chaos minded" voters than other kinds? Would you explain what hypotheses you base that on?

Not particularly complicated.

Look at the way that they got in touch with the folks that took part in said poll. Never mind the number of folks.

If you think that folks they got in touch with that way reflects the bigger picture, you might be the one that needs to explain why you believe that to be the case.

[PaulBullion]

Not particularly complicated.

Look at the way that they got in touch with the folks that took part in said poll. Never mind the number of folks.

If you think that folks they got in touch with that way reflects the bigger picture, you might be the one that needs to explain why you believe that to be the case.

So it's nothing. No real hypothesis beyond "I don't know much about polling but this sounds bad to me."

[PaulBullion]

It's gonna be interesting to see if Sputnik, RT and other Russian propaganda outlets will continue to compare Ukraine with Nazi Germany now that (checks note) they have a Jewish president.

Volodymyr Zelensky is a comedian who used to play the president on TV. Has Alec Baldwin announced his candidacy yet?