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  1. #3076
    Mighty Member Coin Biter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetengine View Post
    Its not really doing much here frustratingly
    It won't, or at least won't greatly, damage him in his core constituency of Conservative party members, when it comes to the leadership election.

    However there's going to be great concern from the party when it considers how this is likely to play out when he finally holds the job of PM, as well as the familiar questions it raises about his character. Not just in terms of whether he did anything wrong here, but also in his reaction to attempts to question him about it. His response is - and always has been - that "people just aren't interested in that". That's not just his response to questions about his private life - for example, the fact he won't even reveal how many kids he has - but also his response to attempts to hold him to any scrutiny whatsoever. For example, I recall that previously he has always brushed aside questions about why he was actually sacked from Michael Howard's Shadow Cabinet (for lying about an affair). Previously, the argument that the public aren't interested in his private life might have worked, but his evasiveness goes further than that. His dodging of debates with his rivals and questions from journalists add up to a picture of a man who cannot tolerate any form of scrutiny whatesoever.

    In the context of a General Election campaign it will, I feel, give the impression of some who just doesn't accept that he is accountable to anyone. In short, he's always got away with it before... but if he does become Prime Minister, with an inch-thin majority and the Damoclean sword of Brexit above his neck? I wonder.

    Johnson is often compared to Trump, but his political challenge is, I feel, massively more difficult, and his position much, much weaker. A PM is not a head of state, even if he can exercise some of those functions, and he can't much rely on deference from colleagues who may support him now, but will turn on him as soon as he disappoints them.
    Last edited by Coin Biter; 06-24-2019 at 12:15 AM.

  2. #3077
    Mighty Member Coin Biter's Avatar
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    One of the peculiarities of Johnson is that I can't recall a major politician who is so liberally despised by so many of those who know him and have worked with him.

    His former boss at the Telegraph, Max Hastings, has publicly expressed his contempt for his character. His former deputy at the Spectator, Simon Heffer, has previously expressed his disdain. Alan Duncan, who served with him at the Foreign Office, has expressed his contempt for having to clear up after his messes.

    It's fairly remarkable, really. There were always close colleagues of Gordon Brown, Blair, John Major, and Thatcher who expressed their (sometimes somewhat reluctant) admiration for certain of their personal qualities. I'm actually struggling to think of a potential PM whose character and basic competence were held in so much disdain. I understand Dominic Lawson argued that having a questionable character was not necessarily an obstacle to being a successful Prime Minister and cited David Lloyd George in support. But whatever might have been the case with Lloyd George's private life he was generally regarded as one of the hardest working and most able politicians in the country, before he became PM.

  3. #3078
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    There are precious few moderates in the legislature and that's a problem.

    Part of this is that we're in a polarized time so voters don't want their national representatives or Presidents to be members of the other party. It's more about that than the national party disliking moderates, although you can see a bit of this on the left with the backlash to Joe Manchin..
    Independents and moderates have been driven out by Republicans. Specifically, by right wing radio. Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and every other major right-wing outlet decried Republicans who worked for compromises. They invented lists of "must have" positions. You're defending the group that drove us to the brink. All the left is doing now is trying to hold ground against a sea of stupidity.

  4. #3079
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malvolio View Post


    Samantha Bee is right. Many of these Democrats running for President, who have no chance at winning the nomination, would be doing us all a lot more good if they ran for the US Senate instead of running for President.
    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    Totally agree about the Democrats need to win more seats in the Senate. Turtle Boy and his wife are getting away with a lot of stuff, probably some that hasn't been uncovered yet. You rarely hear Trump making up names for him or even Rand Paul. I think McConnell, Rand Paul and Lindsey Graham are the Unholy 3 of the Senate.
    Quote Originally Posted by wjowski View Post
    I've been saying this since freaking 2016.
    The "Business As Usual..." Democrats that you mentioned are not in it for what is good for you.

  5. #3080

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    Quote Originally Posted by SquirrelMan View Post
    Are you really that unaware of yourself, or is this an act so you can be evil without being banned from this board?

    And if only fools are kind, maybe it is wise to be cruel?
    I certainly don't moderate my views to avoid getting banned. What I say really doesn't get close to material that is so out of bounds that it should be shunned by polite society. And I also don't make the kinds of personal attacks that result in warnings and bans.

    I try to be careful with what I say, and considerate of the implications of what others say. This leads to some claims that I'm pedantic, which suggests that others don't care about accuracy. I understand the idea that it's more important to be on the right side than to be correct in the instance, that the side you're on is a proxy for whether you're right, but my perspective is that you should be careful to be correct in whatever argument you make, so that if your argument becomes a proxy for your side, you're not in a bad position.

    I could obviously be mistaken, but from my perspective, I am mostly center-right. Hell, I'm pretty open about not voting for Trump, and preferring the current Democratic frontrunner to Trump. There are many people who have more outrageous positions than I have, and if the implication is that their views are out of bounds, that's going to be true of a good chunk of the population. And that's a hard sell for a typical discussion forum.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalak View Post
    Considering how he's practically destroyed the norms of congress over the last decade, from unprecedented obstructionism to reversing everything he claimed was so important (Blue Slips, Filibuster, Investigations, etc) you claiming that he seriously thinks he's doing right by the country is laughable. What's not evil about holding the healthcare for 9/11 responders hostage for political reasons by someone who claims 'Blue Lives Matter'? Hypocrisy and Double Standards aren't tactics.



    You wouldn't approve of liberals summing up Steve King's long racist history as the 'N***** stuff' would you? Even the stories you quoted consider it a slur.
    A distinction between your scenario and the Pocahontas comments is that Pocahontas was an actual person. A comparison would be if Rachel Dolezal (or someone who did what she did but had less African-American DNA) was elected to statewide office, and was referred to Harriet Tubman by conservative opponents. The knock isn't against the historical figure, but against someone who grew up as a white person who has a particular eccentricity.

    As for McConnell, I still think he figures he's correct, that the obstruction is for justified means. The 9/11 Victims Compensation bill might be one of the most controversial recent actions, although that fund was supposed to last longer but then faced an unexpected spike in claims, which suggests earlier errors in calculating costs.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/911-vic...-out-of-money/

  6. #3081
    Extraordinary Member Malvolio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wjowski View Post
    I've been saying this since freaking 2016.
    But in 2016, there were only 3 Democratic candidates who had no chance of winning the nomination. Now, there's over a dozen candidates like that.

  7. #3082
    Ol' Doogie, Circa 2005 JDogindy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malvolio View Post


    Samantha Bee is right. Many of these Democrats running for President, who have no chance at winning the nomination, would be doing us all a lot more good if they ran for the US Senate instead of running for President.
    Why do I bitch so much about Pete Buttigieg running for the nomination when he could be governor of Indiana? I've said it before and I'll say it again; prominent Hoosier Democrats don't want to deal the incompetent Indiana Democratic Party as long as John Zody is in charge, since John Zody is of the mindset that liberals and progressives will vote for Democratic nominees regardless of their stance or history. Then why was it that Evan Byah lost when he came out of retirement to run for senate? And Joe Donnelly would get demolished in his re-election campaign? Or that John Gregg is a two-time loser?

    I think the reason so many Democrats choose to run for presidency rather than more reasonable elections is simply due to the fact that they don't want to be in a situation where they get compromised. That being said, inaction is how you get compromised anyway.

  8. #3083
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDogindy View Post
    Why do I bitch so much about Pete Buttigieg running for the nomination when he could be governor of Indiana? I've said it before and I'll say it again; prominent Hoosier Democrats don't want to deal the incompetent Indiana Democratic Party as long as John Zody is in charge, since John Zody is of the mindset that liberals and progressives will vote for Democratic nominees regardless of their stance or history. Then why was it that Evan Byah lost when he came out of retirement to run for senate? And Joe Donnelly would get demolished in his re-election campaign? Or that John Gregg is a two-time loser?

    I think the reason so many Democrats choose to run for presidency rather than more reasonable elections is simply due to the fact that they don't want to be in a situation where they get compromised. That being said, inaction is how you get compromised anyway.
    Far more likely possibility...

    If a "Business As Usual..." Democrat has to decide between their own political career and the kind of slobber knockers that they are going to have to get into to make things better on the state level, it's going to be "Their Own Political Career..." nine times out of ten.

    The obvious reality that Samantha Bee seems unwilling to face points to it clearly being the case.

    Plenty of folks are in a position to do some good by actually serving the people's interests. Good luck getting more that a few of them to actually do so.

  9. #3084
    Extraordinary Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    I think for a lot of these guys, running for president is just about building a slush fund, unfortunately.

  10. #3085
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Well...

    - https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...t-2020-1377514

    Former Democratic Rep. Joe Sestak announces presidential bid

  11. #3086
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    Bernie Sanders Unveils Sweeping Bill To Cancel All Student Debt

    The new proposal from the 2020 presidential candidate would get rid of all the existing student loan debt in the country. A pie in the sky promise? Who can say?

    **********

    Mike Pence Claims Trump Administration ‘Will Always Follow The Science’ On Climate Change

    But CNN’s Jake Tapper didn’t let the vice president off the hook that easily. BWA-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! Thanks for the laugh, Mikey!

    **********

    Trump Defends Saudi Arabia Partnership Despite Khashoggi Killing: I’m Not ‘A Fool’

    The president claimed the Middle Eastern kingdom is a “big buyer” of American goods and encouraged NBC’s Chuck Todd to “take their money.” Yes, Donnie, yes, you ARE a fool when it comes to your slobbering for Saudi Arabia.

    **********

    Utah Newspaper Says U.S. Is Running ‘Concentration Camps For Refugee Children’

    “We need to stop denying that and decide if we are comfortable with that fact. And how we will explain it to our children,” wrote The Salt Lake Tribune editorial board. More newspapers need to reveal this horrifying truth.

    **********

    Exonerated Central Park Five Receive Standing Ovation At 2019 BET Awards

    The men were honored at the ceremony and delivered a powerful message about truth. Not that a bigot like Trump would watch an awards show for black performers, but I'm sure he'll lose his shit after getting wind of this since he still wants those men put to death.
    Avatar: Here's to the late, great Steve Dillon. Best. Punisher. Artist. EVER!

  12. #3087

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    On this date in 2015, 2016, 2017, as well as 2018, "Crazy/Stupid Republican of the Day" published profiles of U.S. Senator Tom Cotton of Arkansas, who we noted that during his military service, had to be court-martialed in 2004 because he went over the heads of his superiors and wrote an opinion editorial to the New York Times calling for the arrest of three of its reporters for reporting things happening during the War on Terror that he didn't particularly like. This demand to deny the freedom of the press by ignoring those higher up in the chain of command apparently taught Tom Cotton nothing, as in 2015, he became the leader of the #47Traitors, which were himself and 46 Republican Senators who tried to sabotage ongoing negotiations between the State Department and Iranian diplomats to create a nuclear treaty by writing a letter to the leaders of Iran that claimed they would just ignore the treaty after the next president was elected (which they actually can't do). Hundreds of thousands of people signed online petitions to see Sen. Cotton brought up on charges for violating the Logan Act, and he still didn't back down, comparing the Obama administration's effort to Neville Chamberlain appeasing Nazi Germany and saying that Secretary of State John Kerry “acted like Pontius Pilate”. This is but the tip of the iceberg, as Tom Cotton is a dumbass in oh so many ways, including his belief that Saddam Hussein and Iraq had a role in planning 9/11 (he said as much in an interview with Wolf Blitzer on CNN back in January of 2013, despite that idea being debunked by investigators a decade earlier), calling people on food stamps "addicts" who are "abusing taxpayer dollars", tried scaring people away from signing up for the Affordable Care Act because "Russian mobsters will steal your identity", and has no plans to do anything about the United States’ mass incarceration problem, criticizing efforts to reform our criminal justice system in a speech before the Hudson Institute where he said "If anything, we're under-incarcerating." Oh, and after the mass shooting in Orlando, Democrats filibustered the Senate for a vote to keep individuals on the "no fly list" for being a known terrorist from being able to buy firearms and carry out mass shootings, but again, Sen. Cotton votes against the common sense measure, that nine out of ten Americans support. In July of, 2016, Tom Cotton spoke at a panel hosted by Politico at the 2016 Republican National Convention, and gives the alarming analysis that the United States can just intervene in Syria, and should any Russian jets intervene on behalf of their allies in the Assad regime, to just shoot them down, too, because of the AUMFs signed way back in 2001 and 2002 that were meant to fight the war on terror and hunt for Osama bin Laden would also apply to this situation. Were we not clear this guy’s a war hungry nut?

    On February 22nd, 2017, Cotton hosted his first town hall since the election of Donald Trump, and seemed rather surprised at how many extremely pissed off people showed up. Cotton was humiliated after being dressed down by an 7 year old speaker who seemed distressed that Cotton would support funding for Trump’s $20-30 billion dollar border wall, but balk at only millions of dollars allocated to fund PBS. At one point, he sarcastically asked how many people had actually been positively affected by the Affordable Care Act to stand up and after hundreds of people in the room stood, dismissed them out of hand. That became harder, of course, when a 25 year old woman with a genetic disorder, Ehlers-Danlos syndrome, who arrived in a wheelchair pointed out that even if Planned Parenthood funding provided to the Affordable Care Act was repealed that funds her regular cancer screenings, without hyperbole, that she would die. Cotton just assured her she’d be fine, and was booed, because no one was buying that bulls***. The positive side effect, though? Donations towards the woman’s healthcare spiked after the exchange, so at least someone there not named Tom Cotton had a heart. Because Cotton seemed to invest stock into the theory that the anger he faced was actually coming from paid protesters sent by anonymous left wing donors (a conspiracy theory peddled by Donald Trump), when he told the crowd, “I don’t care if anybody here is paid or not. Two months later on April 17th, 2017, Cotton hosted another town hall, sent the crowd into a rage after failing to explain why he wouldn’t use his powers as a Senator to just use the evidence that was already known and subpoena Donald Trump’s tax returns, since he broke his promise to release them to the public, provoking them to begin chanting, “LOCK HIM UP!” at him. Criticism is apparently something Senator Cotton cannot process, because he’s taken to actually sending “cease and desist” letters to constituents who dare to call his office in Washington, D.C. to complain. No, we’re not exaggerating, he’s this petty.

    Sen. Cotton has tethered himself to the legacy of Donald Trump, arguably more than any other sitting member of the Senate, and hasn’t hesitated to defend him whenever an opportunity presents itself. Literally the day after the 2016 election, Sen. Cotton showed his eager excitement that the United States would, under Donald Trump, return to the practice of waterboarding. Even though the International Red Cross officially designated the practice as torture in 2014, and therefore it would be a violation of the Geneva Convention. Hell, Cotton’s drinking the Kool-Aid so hard he’s even on board with Trump’s plan to crack down not just on illegal immigration, but LEGAL immigration. More importantly, Sen. Cotton has been one of the Trump administration’s best obfuscators during the Trump Russia investigation, going on cable news to try and somehow lay blame for it on Ambassador Susan Rice as “the Typhoid Mary of the Obama administration” (don’t try to think about it because it makes no sense). During the testimony of Attorney General Jeff Sessions, who was to serve as a witness regarding the firing of FBI Director James Comey for investigating the Trump/Russia connection, Sen. Cotton used his time with the witness to to just playfully ask Sessions if he was a fan of the Jason Bourne movies or James Bond movies.

    It wasn’t enough that Tom Cotton voted to put accused rapist Brett Kavanaugh on the Supreme Court, it wasn’t that he was grinning like an idiot after doing so, but after the fight was supposedly over, in October of 2018, Cotton began to posit conspiracy theories about the testimony of Christine Blasey Ford, and who it was that revealed her credible accusations of Brett Kavanaugh being an attempted rapist. At first, he blamed Diane Feinstein, and then only about a week later, falsely claiming Chuck Schumer orchestrated the whole thing to smear Kavanaugh. (SPOILER ALERT: Like all conservative conspiracy theories, it was utter bulls***.)

    Cotton’s so far up Donald Trump’s *** that he actually tried lying to cover for him and claim that Trump never referred to Haiti and a large swath of African nations as “s***hole countries during a discussion on immigration, contradicting even Lindsey Graham on the matter. When farmers in the rural Mid-West began to criticize Trump for is unnecessary trade war making it impossible for them to do business, he scoffed at their suffering, and said “pretty minimal compared to the sacrifices that our soldiers make overseas,” because of course this heartless motherf***er will use our troops as a political prop whenever it’s convenient and the situations are as much apples and oranges as possible.

    These are the issues that could be his undoing when he’s next up for election in 2020, and he can go back to his role in serving as a low budget stunt double for Bert from Sesame Street (he might want PBS defunded because he’s bitter he never got the lead role).
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  13. #3088

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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    The "Business As Usual..." Democrats that you mentioned are not in it for what is good for you.
    Of course they are. It's ridiculous to argue they aren't.
    Last edited by Steel Inquisitor; 06-24-2019 at 03:23 AM.

  14. #3089
    Postin' since Aug '05 Dalak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    A distinction between your scenario and the Pocahontas comments is that Pocahontas was an actual person. A comparison would be if Rachel Dolezal (or someone who did what she did but had less African-American DNA) was elected to statewide office, and was referred to Harriet Tubman by conservative opponents. The knock isn't against the historical figure, but against someone who grew up as a white person who has a particular eccentricity.

    As for McConnell, I still think he figures he's correct, that the obstruction is for justified means. The 9/11 Victims Compensation bill might be one of the most controversial recent actions, although that fund was supposed to last longer but then faced an unexpected spike in claims, which suggests earlier errors in calculating costs.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/911-vic...-out-of-money/
    1: It's still a slur Mets, continuing to use it and defend it's use should be against the rules of this forum. I don't see anyone that's not partisan as all get out claiming that it's anything but a racial slur. Please stop!

    2: Whenever the 9/11 Fund will run out or not, the fact that McConnell is holding those people hostage is despicable and in no way benefit the country - It is no excuse for it. That you can't seem to think anything other than this guy is just honestly trying his best for the USA with all this is more revealing of your actual beliefs than practically anything else I've read you post on these forums. Trump is not the whole of what is wrong with your party, and the people who are supporting him most (Mitch included) aren't doing it to better the country which he's harming with every new BS tariff, deregulation (Phili's Oil Refinery says hi!) and each camp they deny fellow human beings access to basic things like Soap and stuff other than concrete to sleep on.

  15. #3090
    Extraordinary Member Malvolio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    I think for a lot of these guys, running for president is just about building a slush fund, unfortunately.
    This has to be true for anyone who announced their run the same week as Joe Biden.

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