All Purpose News and Politics Thread Part IV: The Center Cannot Hold

[Tami]

Winners and losers from the Democratic presidential debate’s second night

Predictably, Kamala Harris was a big winner, Joe Biden was a big loser, and the author of the piece brought up a novel idea to keep candidates from constantly interrupting each other and/or going over their allotted time limit, both of which happened ad infinitum last night: cutting off their microphones.

Who Won the Democratic Debate, Night 2? Experts Weigh In

Harris si still getting high marks, as is Buttigieg. This was not a good night for Biden, and the others were so-so.

[Kirby101]

I have thought a Warren/Harris ticket would be good for a while now.

[Tami]

I have thought a Warren/Harris ticket would be good for a while now.

I'd throw Booker in as a possible VP Candidate as well. Some of the others might make good cabinet members.

[kidfresh512]

Meanwhile, in non debate news, John Cornyn makes himself look like an ass again.

This is why Beto should have tried to go for Senate again instead of embarrassing himself running for President. Beto has a lot of flaws we have all seen them in his national stage performance. But, he connected with the people of Texas as a refreshing needed change from GOP domination. He could have and should have continued to use the capital he built getting so close to taking Cruz out and try again with Cornyn.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

I have thought a Warren/Harris ticket would be good for a while now.

Won’t happen. Both are too Alpha to take a backseat as VP. Either one does more good as a Senator than a VP as well. Strong ticket but I can’t see anyone going for it. If I was Harris the only non Presidential role I want is Attorney General. If I’m Warren I’d rather stay in the Senate

[Darkspellmaster]

And it's not just Mayor Pete who could be tapdancing through a minefield tonight. Bernie Sanders has been known to be more than a little tone deaf when it comes to race, filtering EVERYTHING through his narrow prism of economic independence, just like Tulsi Gabbard based nearly all her answers last night around the importance of the military and her experiences in same, sometimes to her detriment I think. If race relations does become an issue tonight, how will Sanders respond to it?

Due to being really sick, I slept though the debate. I heard Sanders had issues with his gun record, but I don't know if he got asked that question. Heard Harris was on fire though and Yang is blaming his mic for not being able to speak.

[4saken1]

If we can get Warren/Harris/Sanders as the top 3 that's a win for the country.

We'll have to wait and see how the debates affect public opinion in the polls, but if Warren and Sanders both stay in the race they will likely split the progressive vote, allowing Biden to win. Their best shot is if one or the other drops out of the race early enough so as to not give Biden delegates or momentum.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

So finally watched it.

Harris who was slipping won and probably boosted her profile up to where it was. Buttegieg justifies his existence and was able to show he could handle some tough questions and came off well enough in the face of controversy. Sanders didn’t help or hurt his campaign it was typical Sanders and he’ll retain his support.

Biden was the real loser here. Every establishment type looking for a savior had their dreams crushed. He looked uninterested at points and struggled to defend his record. Also I think more people expected hugging Obama to be a lot more effective than it was. He probably didn’t end his campaign but he’s going to be back down to Earth and that’s not good for him. He needed to be a strong front runner who could endure. Now the size of the field comes into play more.

I viewed Booker and Gillibrand as largely the same candidate and Booker shined the night before, Gillibrand was not forceful enough imo and weirdly became a wonk at times.

Hickenlooper shouldn’t be there. He just has no spot. Williamson was a joke candidate that I can’t even believe they let on the stage.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

We'll have to wait and see how the debates affect public opinion in the polls, but if Warren and Sanders both stay in the race they will likely split the progressive vote, allowing Biden to win. Their best shot is if one or the other drops out of the race early enough so as to not give Biden delegates or momentum.

Ehhh that depends. People said that with Trump that as people dropped out an alternative to him would take the lead.

Turns out people aren’t a monolith and everytime someone dropped out some people would stay home and take themselves out of the equation and some people would go for Trump. I could see a lot of Bernie voters going for a Tulsi for instance and I could see Warren having more support from the center which could send some Biden’s way.

Also don’t underestimate a unicorn. Bernie brings people to the table that don’t always turn out. They might just go back to not turning out. It’s not a totally binary choice

[jetengine]

Question for the thread.

Whats with the large number of conservative posters on social media ? I see tons of right wingers slinging **** on YT comments, Twitter etc. Yet never in a more legitimate forum where actual debate can be had ?

[Theleviathan]

Ehhh that depends. People said that with Trump that as people dropped out an alternative to him would take the lead.

Turns out people aren’t a monolith and everytime someone dropped out some people would stay home and take themselves out of the equation and some people would go for Trump. I could see a lot of Bernie voters going for a Tulsi for instance and I could see Warren having more support from the center which could send some Biden’s way.

Also don’t underestimate a unicorn. Bernie brings people to the table that don’t always turn out. They might just go back to not turning out. It’s not a totally binary choice

Here's the thing with Bernie....I don't see his support growing at any point. And I don't see him throwing in the towel no matter how much it shrinks or falls behind.

He could very well have a negative effect on how this plays out.

[Vic Vega]

I found this to be a pretty comprehensive article on the issue. Past records are often an obstacle for those that serve in the public sphere.

For every mistake a Harris or a Buttegieg or even a Biden make, they were in that position because they were serving in office and decisions are not always easy. Compromises have upsides and downsides by their nature. Being in office rarely affords one a sparkling record. (Unless you're Bernie and you basically sit in a corner for decades wagging your finger but not really accomplishing much)

You can only realistically accomplish so much when you try to change things from within. Knowing that the system is resistant to reform or reformers.

A D.A. that is seen as Anti-Police by the Police themselves doesn't get to stay as D.A. So Harris has pushed reformist policies while refusing to do anything that would piss off
Police or the Police Union directly.

[C_Miller]

Coming out of both debates, I am all in on Warren. I still really like Bernie, but this debate highlighted some of my issues with him. He'll be 80 by the time he's halfway through his first term and frankly, with more people coming around to Bernie's ideas, he just doesn't feel that special anymore. He comes off like a walking soundbyte. He seemed strongest on foreign policy, which is unusual for Bernie, but his was the only time he was able to move away from his canned answers. The canned answers don't work when have the people on the stage are talking about corruption, money in politics and the problems of Wall Street.

Andrew Yang is another guy who I think lost big in the debate. I get that he was so rarely called on and that's a failing of NBC, but so many other candidates were not called on and still were able to deliver responses. Hickenlooper, Swalwel, Bennett and Williamson were called on about as little as Yang, but they interjected when they had something to say. Yang did not. The impression that gives off is that he doesn't really have anything to say. He really felt like a single issue candidate last night whose only policy proposal is giving every American $1000.

Swalwel and Hickenlooper, IMO, were the ones who were hurt themselves the most though. Swalwel felt like most rehearsed out of the entire line up to where he felt the most disingenuous. I could picture him rehearsing his two biggest moments in the dressing room mirror right before. The moment with Mayor Pete, telling him to fire the Chief of Police felt like grandstanding after I thought he gave a really good answer on the controversy and then his moment with Biden (which he tried again later with Bernie) just felt off. I have no idea who he is other than needlessly disrespectful this his other candidates.

Hickenlooper didn't do anything terrible, but he just felt like 1980s-1990s Democrat who would have been a Republican if they were born into a different family. It felt like he plays into the Right's dog whistling about Socialism. If you're to the right of the Center of a place like Norway, Denmark, or even Canada, Germany, France and the UK on issues like education, health care and social safety nets, then I really am not interested in you. And I think the Democratic party is starting to feel similar.

The person who probably looked the worst last night was Marianne Williamson, but she was so goddamn entertaining that I'll let it slide.

[Theleviathan]

You can only realistically accomplish so much when you try to change things from within. Knowing that the system is resistant to reform or reformers.

A D.A. that is seen as Anti-Police by the Police themselves doesn't get to stay as D.A. So Harris has pushed reformist policies while refusing to do anything that would piss off
Police or the Police Union directly.

Totally agree. If you go back to when Harris first entered the race, what was the outcry against her? Basically anti-prosecutor/D.A. You can find many left-wing hit pieces to that effect.

In elections we tend to unfairly hold past public service against people. We rail on what we don't like but ignore the many, many good things that are done as well. If our public officials are active and involved in the situations they are faced with, their record will have ups and downs.

To Harris' credit, she said as much on MSNBC after the debate about Joe Biden. I would imagine some of that was with the knowledge of her own weaknesses. Those weaknesses - Biden, Klobuchar, De Blasio, etc. included - shouldn't be disqualifying. But as a voting populace we rarely look at such things with nuance, they just turn into hammers.

[Darkspellmaster]

Question for the thread.

Whats with the large number of conservative posters on social media ? I see tons of right wingers slinging **** on YT comments, Twitter etc. Yet never in a more legitimate forum where actual debate can be had ?

Because they know they can be banned here by mods, and social media is easy to say nothing and people going "Yeah!" in response. Also I think they are scared of being talked over.