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  1. #7321
    Postin' since Aug '05 Dalak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electricmastro View Post
    Supposedly, the Dayton mass shooter from earlier this month had, assuming the sources I've seen are correct, either links to antifa groups or at the very least was an enthusiast of antifa groups. The sources could always be wrong though, of course, so it would be nice to know which sources tend to be the most reliable so as to gain as good of an understanding as possible.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    He was more of an enthusiast. To link him to political violence would require a couple of things - a manifesto of some kind, or him targeting the people that antifa, Warren, or Sanders are going after in their speeches. Instead of going after bankers, political donors, or some place frequented by upper classes, he went after a bar and restaurant district and one of his victims was his own sister.

    If a Trumper shoots up his workplace after getting fired it probably isn't political - it's still a tragedy though.

    But if that same person goes after the targets of political rhetoric then it is probably political in nature.

    In other words, the Dayton shooting doesn't meet the base requirements for being a left wing attack, despite the perpetrator being a left winger himself. The history the guy has shows warning signs of violence going back before he was likely to have formed his political identity to begin with.
    Not only did Gray Lensman sum everything up nicely, but it shows that the wrong sources are willing to push anything forward as long as it seems to reflect negatively on the anti-fascist movement.

  2. #7322
    Extraordinary Member Robotman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tami View Post
    Dow drops more than 400 points after Trump orders US companies to look for ‘alternative to China’


    So now Trump thinsk he can order companies to do whatever he wants them to do. Remember, this is the guy who bankrupted dozens of businesses.
    So all companies? I guess that would include his daughter’s crappy clothing and jewelry lines, the production of MAGA hats, and American flags.


    Last edited by Robotman; 08-23-2019 at 01:34 PM.

  3. #7323
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    Again, I'll point out it's the skinheads with the body count.

  4. #7324
    Mighty Member Electricmastro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalak View Post
    Not only did Gray Lensman sum everything up nicely, but it shows that the wrong sources are willing to push anything forward as long as it seems to reflect negatively on the anti-fascist movement.
    Going against fascism and being anti-fascist isn't wrong, one could say objectively so, though that said, whatever noble and well-intentioned goal a group decides to have and actively carry out doesn't make them completely incapable of having reasonable criticism made towards them, such as the argument I've seen others make that violence is only justified in self-defense.

    Then again, in this case, perhaps I and other analyzers are just overreacting, and that all the violence and other grizzly actions that will be carried out against the fascists in 2019 and beyond is very much justified.

    So, here's the bottom line, if violence is what's very much necessary to mow down and destroy all the fascists and other such bad people in 2019 and beyond, perhaps even akin to the violence used by the Allied powers in World War II, at the risk of going into World War III in the future, then alright, at that point I'll stop questioning it and let it be so for the sake of guiding our planet towards a better future for all, black people, Asian people, Jewish people, etc.

    That said though, in the case it's not as necessary after all, and it turns out there are, truthfully, indeed better ways of getting rid of all of the fascist lunatics as opposed to just using extreme violence, then, well, it's quite a different story at that point, isn't it?

    Just some food for thought.

  5. #7325
    Guardian Empress of Earth Tami's Avatar
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    A thought for the day:

    Trump was handed the Golden Goose of Economic Growth, Job Growth, and so on.

    Instead of letting the Golden Goose continue to lay it's Golden Eggs, Trump decided that he was hungry for a Goose Dinner.

    That is where we are now.
    Last edited by Tami; 08-23-2019 at 05:08 PM.
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  6. #7326
    Silver Sentinel BeastieRunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electricmastro View Post
    Going against fascism and being anti-fascist isn't wrong, one could say objectively so, though that said, whatever noble and well-intentioned goal a group decides to have and actively carry out doesn't make them completely incapable of having reasonable criticism made towards them, such as the argument I've seen others make that violence is only justified in self-defense.

    Then again, in this case, perhaps I and other analyzers are just overreacting, and that all the violence and other grizzly actions that will be carried out against the fascists in 2019 and beyond is very much justified.

    So, here's the bottom line, if violence is what's very much necessary to mow down and destroy all the fascists and other such bad people in 2019 and beyond, perhaps even akin to the violence used by the Allied powers in World War II, at the risk of going into World War III in the future, then alright, at that point I'll stop questioning it and let it be so for the sake of guiding our planet towards a better future for all, black people, Asian people, Jewish people, etc.

    That said though, in the case it's not as necessary after all, and it turns out there are, truthfully, indeed better ways of getting rid of all of the fascist lunatics as opposed to just using extreme violence, then, well, it's quite a different story at that point, isn't it?

    Just some food for thought.
    vvv THIS right here ... vvv
    Quote Originally Posted by wjowski View Post
    Again, I'll point out it's the skinheads with the body count.
    ^^^ THAT ... is what you should be paying attention to ^^^
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  7. #7327
    Silver Sentinel BeastieRunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tami View Post
    A thought for the day:

    Trump was handed the Golden Goose of Economic Growth, Job Growth, and so on.

    Instead for letting the Golden Goose continue to lay it's Golden Eggs, Trump decided that he was hungry for a Goose Dinner.

    That is where we are now.
    That explains his hair and skin color, at least.
    "Always listen to the crazy scientist with a weird van or armful of blueprints and diagrams." -- Vibranium

  8. #7328
    Postin' since Aug '05 Dalak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electricmastro View Post
    Going against fascism and being anti-fascist isn't wrong, one could say objectively so, though that said, whatever noble and well-intentioned goal a group decides to have and actively carry out doesn't make them completely incapable of having reasonable criticism made towards them, such as the argument I've seen others make that violence is only justified in self-defense.

    Then again, in this case, perhaps I and other analyzers are just overreacting, and that all the violence and other grizzly actions that will be carried out against the fascists in 2019 and beyond is very much justified.

    So, here's the bottom line, if violence is what's very much necessary to mow down and destroy all the fascists and other such bad people in 2019 and beyond, perhaps even akin to the violence used by the Allied powers in World War II, at the risk of going into World War III in the future, then alright, at that point I'll stop questioning it and let it be so for the sake of guiding our planet towards a better future for all, black people, Asian people, Jewish people, etc.

    That said though, in the case it's not as necessary after all, and it turns out there are, truthfully, indeed better ways of getting rid of all of the fascist lunatics as opposed to just using extreme violence, then, well, it's quite a different story at that point, isn't it?

    Just some food for thought.
    You picked the one person who actually responded to your post with a denial of violence to respond to with this pack of strawmen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalak View Post
    'Most Violent Actions' . . .

    I do not support violence outside of self-defense or similar situations, but I'd like to know what you consider their most violent actions. As far as I know they haven't killed anyone and have had a significant number of lies spread about their actions (Cement Milkshakes!!1!), so I'd like to see what we're discussing here compared to actual murders, bombs sent, and rabid bigotry by the Fa side of this debate.
    So you buy into every story put out against them, that's fine. Just read before responding, and if you'd like to describe their most violent actions outside of one unrelated murderer I'd still like to hear them. I'd also like to see what sources and analyzers you're listening to as well.

  9. #7329
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    While this is all pretty much in the "Not Even Getting Started..." stage, it seemed like it was worth a mention -

    - https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/23/h...death-cdc.html

    First Death in a Spate of Vaping Sicknesses Reported by Health Officials

  10. #7330
    Extraordinary Member Robotman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tami View Post
    A thought for the day:

    Trump was handed the Golden Goose of Economic Growth, Job Growth, and so on.

    Instead for letting the Golden Goose continue to lay it's Golden Eggs, Trump decided that he was hungry for a Goose Dinner.

    That is where we are now.
    Everyday it seems like he’s destroying his chances of re-election with his insane lack of knowledge of how the economy works. The economy was always his strength because he’s “good at business.” But I’ll never get my hopes up when it comes to the Democrats. No one is better at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

  11. #7331
    Extraordinary Member Malvolio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WestPhillyPunisher View Post
    And I counter that argument by saying Trump is desperate to get reelected because he'd likely face trial for his dirty dealings from the Mueller Report after he leaves office and could end up in prison. As I've said more than once, the only thing Trump fears more than losing his wealth or his notoriety is losing his freedom. Put him behind bars and he'll do a Jeffrey Epstein inside of a month.
    Ah, but consider this. Trump gets on a private jet headed to the Cayman Islands. Then, just as the plane leaves US airspace, he tweets his resignation. Could we extradite him?

  12. #7332
    Extraordinary Member Malvolio's Avatar
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    I was going to post this article. It doesn't state which party Cramer represents, so I googled her. And wouldn't you know it? She's a Republican! Another one for WBE's queue.

  13. #7333
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeastieRunner View Post
    vvv THIS right here ... vvv


    ^^^ THAT ... is what you should be paying attention to ^^^
    You can do both. Mastro's concerns are worth a ponder and in no way prevent us from condemning the greater current problem.

    The left building its own unassailable corner isnt good either.

  14. #7334
    Guardian Empress of Earth Tami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malvolio View Post
    Ah, but consider this. Trump gets on a private jet headed to the Cayman Islands. Then, just as the plane leaves US airspace, he tweets his resignation. Could we extradite him?
    How long will the Cayman Islands tolerate him? Besides, they are a British Territory, which means extradition. Unless Bo Jo refuses to do so. I doubt he'd be Prime Minister for long if he tried to protect Trump.

    Also, the SS would never let him on a Private Jet. Trump would have to sneak out.
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  15. #7335

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    Quote Originally Posted by Malvolio View Post
    Ah, but consider this. Trump gets on a private jet headed to the Cayman Islands. Then, just as the plane leaves US airspace, he tweets his resignation. Could we extradite him?
    That would only work if he would shut up, but he wouldn't go quietly. His narcissism wouldn't let him. He'd play the victim as a "president in exile", blame the deep state, and incite white nationalists to commit acts of domestic terror in his name more directly.

    At that point, we'd need to go collect him with a Seal team, to be collected and taken home to be put on trial properly.
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