All Purpose News and Politics Thread Part IV: The Center Cannot Hold

[Kusanagi]

Abstinence only works if you make the choice, absolutely believe in it, and are 100% committed to it.

It's why it can't be just taught to someone, and when morons put abstinence only education in schools you see a spike in pregnancies, abortions, and std outbreaks.

[Ohnooze]

That's not at all how people work, like it or not people **** and these services exist because of that. All that removing Roe Versus Wade does is change where the abortion comes from and how its done. That's it. Living "irresponsibly" by fucking means you might as well get rid of condoms and birth control pills. And also, you cannot guarantee abstinence across the board because young people and rapists exist. People make mistakes or a condom breaks and people commit crimes. People have nights drunk or just don't care and they never see the mother or father again, it happens. Even if it was 1% that make up abortion, that's a lot of people in the United States who need help that the government wont give.

And if it's 1% compared to the total population, why do they care? Well it's a religious/philosophical issue at the end of the day and there is a separation (or at least there is supposed to be) of church and state, and nobody can agree on when life begins. Instead of solving for X, they try to take hold of people's vaginas and by extension penis. Yeah a thing they are forgetting is what happens when that baby is born? Suddenly child-support come into play and they can and do track the parent down. You'd think that would be enough of a deterrent, but even then it is not.

Planned parenthood is one of those things that help figure out all that mess because when you don't, you put a child in a tough spot it will not be able to manage until it (or if) survives to legal adulthood.

Ultimately you're saying that people are irresponsible and that because it's going to happen we should kill the unborn. That way they are not a burden to the irresponsible people or the public who end up supporting them in one way or another.

I agree that you can not stop it across the board...that is completely impossible. But if people did act more responsible are take ownership of their actions we would not be having this conversation. I'm not saying it's realistic though...especially in these days where everything is about sex and there are no limits.

[Ohnooze]

Seeing as the one person I know who's had an abortion did so because the condom broke I disagree. It's anecdotal and she's become a born again christian woman who became upset that someone cursed around her 3 month old infant she had years later, but it's what I've experienced.

I know several people who have had one. One of them who had more than one and all of them were having unprotected sex. Breaking condoms is not the reason people are getting pregnant....that is not an overly common situation. It happens sure...but that's not the problem here.

[Malvolio]

Abstinence only works if you make the choice, absolutely believe in it, and are 100% committed to it.

It's why it can't be just taught to someone, and when morons put abstinence only education in schools you see a spike in pregnancies, abortions, and std outbreaks.

There are three types of kids who take "abstinence pledges." There are the ones who take the pledge honestly and follow through and don't have sex until they're married or ready to have a child. They'll be ok. Then there are the ones who take the pledge to please their parents and teachers, but have no intention of following through. They often know where to get condoms or other forms of birth control, so they'll probably be ok. But it's the third group that we should be concerned about, the kids who know they have hormonal urges, but take the pledge, crossing their fingers that taking the pledge will keep them chaste. But sooner or later, some of them are overcome with passion and they have sex, but because they believed that the pledge would work, they never got any birth control, so they often become pregnant, but have no resources to provide for a baby. And that's why abstinence only education doesn't work.

[worstblogever]

Meanwhile, Colorado started a program to help lower-income teens get IUDs, and have seen the pregnancy, and abortion rates plummet.

The "pro-life" crowd is actually anti-choice... because even though there's a thing that made LESS ABORTIONS, they hate it, because women get to have sex.

Any argument otherwise is facetious.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

It’s so weird having sex with someone who has an IUD though

[JCAll]

The conservative push to outlaw abortion has never been about abortion; it's about control, it's about punishing women, and it's about proving "moral" superiority.

[Ohnooze]

The conservative push to outlaw abortion has never been about abortion; it's about control, it's about punishing women, and it's about proving "moral" superiority.

Do you really believe that trash? Seriously I don't mean to be rude but that is some whack crap right there. Drop the conspiracy stuff....punishing women? OMG....just wow.

[Jack Dracula]

'A hate-for-profit racket': Warren refuses Fox town hall invite
The Massachusetts senator sets herself apart from Bernie Sanders and other Democrats who've played ball with the network.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...n-hall-1320068

I mean...she's not wrong.

[Dalak]

I know several people who have had one. One of them who had more than one and all of them were having unprotected sex. Breaking condoms is not the reason people are getting pregnant....that is not an overly common situation. It happens sure...but that's not the problem here.

There are 2 problems here. The first is expecting everyone else to live to an impossibly high standard and shaming them when they do not, the second is enforcing ones own beliefs on others in a country where that is against the constitution. These become especially egregious when coupled with the hypocrisy of the Religious Right/Pro-Life movement when they restrict birth control, restrict adoptions, and shame people for having sex at all. Considering how many prominent folks are embroiled in sex scandals (Often involving abortion from those 'against' it) and how anyone in any position of power will not acknowledge thier mistakes unless publicly confronted with them, claiming that everyone should just accept responsibility for their actions is ludicrous. Hell, our current society is built around the concept of 'You can do anything you want as long as you don't get caught' and even if you are there are people who'll defend even the worst actions as long as it suits their purposes regardless of how morally reprehensible it is to do/defend.

[Ohnooze]

There are 2 problems here. The first is expecting everyone else to live to an impossibly high standard and shaming them when they do not, the second is enforcing ones own beliefs on others in a country where that is against the constitution. These become especially egregious when coupled with the hypocrisy of the Religious Right/Pro-Life movement when they restrict birth control, restrict adoptions, and shame people for having sex at all. Considering how many prominent folks are embroiled in sex scandals (Often involving abortion from those 'against' it) and how anyone in any position of power will not acknowledge thier mistakes unless publicly confronted with them, claiming that everyone should just accept responsibility for their actions is ludicrous. Hell, our current society is built around the concept of 'You can do anything you want as long as you don't get caught' and even if you are there are people who'll defend even the worst actions as long as it suits their purposes regardless of how morally reprehensible it is to do/defend.

Everyone should just accept responsibility for their actions. I didn't say they would I said they should. It's being responsible....this seems to be a concept that we are losing in the US lately.

I do not agree that our current society is built around the concept of You can do anything you want as long as you don't get caught. But that’s ok…we are starting to drift into other subjects with that.

Speaking of being responsible I need to get some work done. I do want to say this though….I am a religious person. I am and will always be Christian, God willing. But that said I have no interest in shaming people for mistakes. I understand it’s not a perfect world. In fact I grew up as a man whore and honestly even then I did not agree with abortion. I’m honest enough to admit that had one of my lady friends gotten pregnant I would probably have chosen abortion. Unfortunately when you’re young, stupid, scared and have no resources it seems like the only option.

In my perfect world (here and now) we would find ways and sink resources into deterring people from sex when they are not responsible enough to keep a child. But that’s not where we are right now and this is a topic that has no easy answers.

I appreciate the conversation and you guys being civil. These topics do tend to get heated at times. Now I go to get some work done.

[Kusanagi]

Do you really believe that trash? Seriously I don't mean to be rude but that is some whack crap right there. Drop the conspiracy stuff....punishing women? OMG....just wow.

From a couple days ago in Georgia

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...in-prison.html

And even worse in Ohio

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/pol...l7e-story.html

Now thank goodness, the law isn't enacted yet, but yes this could be seen as punishing the woman.

Now you can say "well rape and incest doesn't happen too often", but the danger in lawmakers with no knowledge of medical science making laws (the "heartbeat" law. for example is actually before the heart develops) is they can look into even a miscarriage and turn it into a criminal investigation.

[Dalak]

Everyone should just accept responsibility for their actions. I didn't say they would I said they should. It's being responsible....this seems to be a concept that we are losing in the US lately.

I do not agree that our current society is built around the concept of You can do anything you want as long as you don't get caught. But that’s ok…we are starting to drift into other subjects with that.

Speaking of being responsible I need to get some work done. I do want to say this though….I am a religious person. I am and will always be Christian, God willing. But that said I have no interest in shaming people for mistakes. I understand it’s not a perfect world. In fact I grew up as a man whore and honestly even then I did not agree with abortion. I’m honest enough to admit that had one of my lady friends gotten pregnant I would probably have chosen abortion. Unfortunately when you’re young, stupid, scared and have no resources it seems like the only option.

In my perfect world (here and now) we would find ways and sink resources into deterring people from sex when they are not responsible enough to keep a child. But that’s not where we are right now and this is a topic that has no easy answers.

I appreciate the conversation and you guys being civil. These topics do tend to get heated at times. Now I go to get some work done.

I agree that people should be more responsible, it's an admirable trait that shows character and self-respect better than many others. However I don't believe that 2 people should be forced to become parents because they got a bit too drunk, had birth control fail, were assaulted, or because their parents decided they have to. Raising a child should be a personal choice and not something forced upon anyone, as it can be just as detrimental to the child to be raised by resentful parents as by well-meaning abusers. I'm not sure I'd ever ask someone to have an abortion involving a child of mine, but I won't force myself into someone's choice or allow anyone else to get involved any more than I would if it were mine. I'll advise, cajole, and argue with them if I'm brought into it but ultimately it's not my choice to make - Same as voting, choosing military service, and many other life-altering decisions with unknown consequences.

As for 'Don't get caught' do you always refrain from Speeding when driving? It's the little things like that which allow such an insidious concept to flourish on the large scale, to the point that corruption is on the air for the world to see every day now.

Lastly, I've had issues with organized religion in general for most of my life but since Christianity is the biggest issues here in the US it's the one I'm forced to focus on for the most part. Religion has been misused all over the planet for thousands of years for some of the worst atrocities in human history, but I don't hold anyone's religious beliefs against them as long as they don't use it as an excuse to discriminate against others.

[aja_christopher]

Do you really believe that trash? Seriously I don't mean to be rude but that is some whack crap right there. Drop the conspiracy stuff....punishing women? OMG....just wow.

"The Cruelty Is the Point"

"The Museum of African-American History and Culture is in part a catalog of cruelty. Amid all the stories of perseverance, tragedy, and unlikely triumph are the artifacts of inhumanity and barbarism: the child-size slave shackles, the bright red robes of the wizards of the Ku Klux Klan, the recordings of civil-rights protesters being brutalized by police.

The artifacts that persist in my memory, the way a bright flash does when you close your eyes, are the photographs of lynchings. But it’s not the burned, mutilated bodies that stick with me. It’s the faces of the white men in the crowd. There’s the photo of the lynching of Thomas Shipp and Abram Smith in Indiana in 1930, in which a white man can be seen grinning at the camera as he tenderly holds the hand of his wife or girlfriend. There’s the undated photo from Duluth, Minnesota, in which grinning white men stand next to the mutilated, half-naked bodies of two men lashed to a post in the street—one of the white men is straining to get into the picture, his smile cutting from ear to ear.

There’s the photo of a crowd of white men huddled behind the smoldering corpse of a man burned to death; one of them is wearing a smart suit, a fedora hat, and a bright smile....

Taking joy in that suffering is more human than most would like to admit. Somewhere on the wide spectrum between adolescent teasing and the smiling white men in the lynching photographs are the Trump supporters whose community is built by rejoicing in the anguish of those they see as unlike them, who have found in their shared cruelty an answer to the loneliness and atomization of modern life.

The laughter undergirds the daily spectacle of insincerity, as the president and his aides pledge fealty to bedrock democratic principles they have no intention of respecting. The president who demanded the execution of five black and Latino teenagers for a crime they didn’t commit decrying “false accusations,” when his Supreme Court nominee stands accused; his supporters who fancy themselves champions of free speech meet references to Hillary Clinton or a woman whose only crime was coming forward to offer her own story of abuse with screams of “Lock her up!” The political movement that elected a president who wanted to ban immigration by adherents of an entire religion, who encourages police to brutalize suspects, and who has destroyed thousands of immigrant families for violations of the law less serious than those of which he and his coterie stand accused, now laments the state of due process.

Trump’s only true skill is the con; his only fundamental belief is that the United States is the birthright of straight, white, Christian men, and his only real, authentic pleasure is in cruelty. It is that cruelty, and the delight it brings them, that binds his most ardent supporters to him, in shared scorn for those they hate and fear: immigrants, black voters, feminists, and treasonous white men who empathize with any of those who would steal their birthright. The president’s ability to execute that cruelty through word and deed makes them euphoric. It makes them feel good, it makes them feel proud, it makes them feel happy, it makes them feel united.

And as long as he makes them feel that way, they will let him get away with anything, no matter what it costs them.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...-point/572104/

------
"Republican Senator Clyde Chambliss argued that the ban was still fair to victims of rape and incest because those women would still be allowed to get an abortion "until she knows she's pregnant," a statement that garnered a mixture of groans and cackles from the chamber's gallery.

"With liberal states approving radical late-term and post-birth abortions, Roe must be challenged, and I am proud that Alabama is leading the way," Ainsworth tweeted on Tuesday night.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/alabama...st-2019-05-14/

[Ohnooze]

I agree that people should be more responsible, it's an admirable trait that shows character and self-respect better than many others. However I don't believe that 2 people should be forced to become parents because they got a bit too drunk, had birth control fail, were assaulted, or because their parents decided they have to. Raising a child should be a personal choice and not something forced upon anyone, as it can be just as detrimental to the child to be raised by resentful parents as by well-meaning abusers. I'm not sure I'd ever ask someone to have an abortion involving a child of mine, but I won't force myself into someone's choice or allow anyone else to get involved any more than I would if it were mine. I'll advise, cajole, and argue with them if I'm brought into it but ultimately it's not my choice to make - Same as voting, choosing military service, and many other life-altering decisions with unknown consequences.

As for 'Don't get caught' do you always refrain from Speeding when driving? It's the little things like that which allow such an insidious concept to flourish on the large scale, to the point that corruption is on the air for the world to see every day now.

Lastly, I've had issues with organized religion in general for most of my life but since Christianity is the biggest issues here in the US it's the one I'm forced to focus on for the most part. Religion has been misused all over the planet for thousands of years for some of the worst atrocities in human history, but I don't hold anyone's religious beliefs against them as long as they don't use it as an excuse to discriminate against others.

I find that people confuse not accepting something about someone with discrimination. They are not the same thing.

I have a gay sister who is married with adopted children and I love her. That said I don’t support homosexuality but that has nothing to do with my love for her. And it’s a non-issue between us because we respect each other.