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  1. #4546
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    The bigger picture is that Democrats do seem to protect the interests of the party, and that decisions on how to handle flawed politicians occur within this context.

    Is it mistaken in any way?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    No one is actually defending Northam. We're just not pretending he's locking kids in camps and that this is somehow the same as the unwillingness to hold Trump accountable. When Northam kills a kid and the Dems protect him, let me know.
    Like I said, "Both Sides" at its finest.

  2. #4547
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aja_christopher View Post
    Let's also not forget that Trump also chose Bolton as his Secretary of Defense and almost took us to war with Iran recently.
    I worry that Trump is keeping the war card with Iran close and ready to play in case it looks like he'll lose the election next year. Then, after he orders the first cruise missile fired or smart bomb dropped, he'll have an excuse to stay in office by saying he's needed to steer the country through the conflict HE started. And, of course, Republicans won't do a damn thing to stop Trump, even though he'd need Congressional approval for war, because they'll give it to him.
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  3. #4548
    Mighty Member Coin Biter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetengine View Post
    Bernie is a less sucsessful Corbyn and Corbyn has somehow made anti-semetism a hot topic in the Uk, a nation thats spent the last twenty years giving more of a shit about Muslims then jews.
    I can see why you're making this comparison, because they're both older male politicians who are on the left of their political movements, but I'm not sure it's accurate.

    Corbyn's focus as a politician in his earlier career has been on opposition to US and UK foreign policy, anti-war activism, and Northern Ireland. That's not to say he's not considered domestic politics as well - he went to prison for refusing to pay the poll tax, after all - but he's not really as focused on economic inequality to the degree that the Shadow Chancellor, John McDonnell is, for example.

    Look who he appointed as his director of communications - Seamus Milne. I've read loads of Milne articles in the Guardian over the years and his one consistent theme is foreign policy, and criticism of the UK and US and the EU in this regard. Unsurprisingly, Milne's reaction to the Ukraine crisis, for example, was to denounce Western expansion, as was Corbyn's.

    Part of this political movement, in the UK at least, has been criticism of Israel. Unfortunately some people of this political persuasion are either simply anti-semitic, or have at least fallen into anti-semitic tropes when criticising Israel. For whatever reason - and I imagine incompetence, a refusal to accept allegations, a reluctance to criticise perceived allies, and unacknowledged prejudice have all played a role - the Labour party under Corbyn has handled these issues very very badly.

    I don't know much about Bernie Sanders, cos he's a US politician and I admit to only knowing this stuff secondhand, but he doesn't seem to have these kind of issues and is primarily focused on economic inequality. Is that wrong?

  4. #4549
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump...p6gjldSnZBrsHI

    Trump doubled down on his racism from yesterday.

    https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1...48086488240128

    Lindsey Graham was right in Trump's corner on all of this.

    But, you know, "both sides".

  5. #4550

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coin Biter View Post
    I can see why you're making this comparison, because they're both older male politicians who are on the left of their political movements, but I'm not sure it's accurate.

    Corbyn's focus as a politician in his earlier career has been on opposition to US and UK foreign policy, anti-war activism, and Northern Ireland. That's not to say he's not considered domestic politics as well - he went to prison for refusing to pay the poll tax, after all - but he's not really as focused on economic inequality to the degree that the Shadow Chancellor, John McDonnell is, for example.

    Look who he appointed as his director of communications - Seamus Milne. I've read loads of Milne articles in the Guardian over the years and his one consistent theme is foreign policy, and criticism of the UK and US and the EU in this regard. Unsurprisingly, Milne's reaction to the Ukraine crisis, for example, was to denounce Western expansion, as was Corbyn's.

    Part of this political movement, in the UK at least, has been criticism of Israel. Unfortunately some people of this political persuasion are either simply anti-semitic, or have at least fallen into anti-semitic tropes when criticising Israel. For whatever reason - and I imagine incompetence, a refusal to accept allegations, a reluctance to criticise perceived allies, and unacknowledged prejudice have all played a role - the Labour party under Corbyn has handled these issues very very badly.

    I don't know much about Bernie Sanders, cos he's a US politician and I admit to only knowing this stuff secondhand, but he doesn't seem to have these kind of issues and is primarily focused on economic inequality. Is that wrong?
    Sanders' and Corbyn have much in common. They're both socialists, they're both outsiders to their parties, they have issues with controversial hirings, they're both old men stuck in the 70's, they both have supported problematic groups and nations on the left in their political careers, both have bases that are young, both have grumpy personas, and both aren't great with the media. Where Corbyn differs is that he was able to overcome his opposition in Labour while it was the opposite with Sanders' and the Democrats.

  6. #4551
    Extraordinary Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/15/polit...ica/index.html

    The regulation would prohibit migrants who have resided in a third country from seeking asylum in the US. It would, therefore, bar migrants transiting through Mexico from being able to claim asylum and as a result, drastically limit who's eligible for asylum. The regulation is an interim final rule, which allows the new restrictions to go into effect immediately.
    "Pursuant to statutory authority, the Departments are amending their respective regulations to provide that, with limited exceptions, an alien who enters or attempts to enter the United States across the southern border after failing to apply for protection in a third country outside the alien's country of citizenship, nationality, or last lawful habitual residence through which the alien transited en route to the United States is ineligible for asylum," the document reads.
    Yikes.

  7. #4552
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    The democrats are making me choose Nazis by not stopping enough brown people from coming to the country
    That's where we are. I have to vote for a racist and his enablers because Dems want open borders!

  8. #4553
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump...p6gjldSnZBrsHI

    Trump doubled down on his racism from yesterday.
    Well, of course he did. Trump can't afford to lose the white supremacist vote. David Duke and his bedsheet wearing homies are propping him up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1...48086488240128

    Lindsey Graham was right in Trump's corner on all of this.

    But, you know, "both sides".
    Well, of course he did. Grouchy Graham has to keep on kissing Trump's orange ass if he hopes to land a position in his cabinet of horrors one day.
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  9. #4554
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    The democrats are making me choose Nazis by not stopping enough brown people from coming to the country
    Even that nonsense is based on a lie -- attacking Democrats on immigration after the Obama presidency is completely dishonest as well.

    But that's what you get when you elect a "birther in chief" whose whole candidacy was built on attacking brown people -- like Obama -- based on race and religion. Republicans knew exactly who Trump was from the moment he started hinting that Obama is a "Kenyan Muslim" and that Mexicans are "rapists and criminals" and that's exactly who they voted for, so it's not surprising to see them in full support of his actions.

    It's not about the facts regarding immigration -- it's about reinstating white nationalism on a federal level.

    -----
    "Trump deporting immigrants at slower pace than Obama: report"

    "Despite a larger number of deportations in fiscal 2018 than 2017, the Trump administration’s deportation levels still fall below those under the early years of the Obama administration, according to an Axios report.

    Under the Obama administration, deportations by Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) officials surpassed 385,000 each year between fiscal 2009 and 2011, Axios reports, citing data from the Department of Homeland Security.

    In fiscal 2012, deportations hit a high of more than 409,000, the outlet reports.

    But toward the end of Obama’s second term, in fiscal 2015 and 2016, deportations fell below 250,000 people per year.

    By comparison, ICE deportations under President Trump dropped to about 226,000 in fiscal 2017, according to Axios. This number jumped to more than 250,000 in fiscal 2018.

    The Trump administration hit its highest total yet this fiscal year, with more than 282,000 deportations as of June.

    Trump has made immigration a core issue for his administration since he took office.

    On Monday, he issued a surprise announcement threatening to deport “millions of illegal aliens who have illicitly found their way into the United States.”


    https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...n-obama-report
    Last edited by aja_christopher; 07-15-2019 at 07:27 AM.

  10. #4555
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    "Republicans Refuse to Criticise Trump's Racist Tweets"

    "Donald Trump’s racist tweets urging Democratic congresswomen to “go back” to the countries they came from have provoked widespread outrage, but Republicans have refused to condemn the remarks.

    Members of the president’s party have remained largely silent after the xenophobic remarks aimed at progressive congresswomen, presumed to be Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Rashida Tlaib, Ilhan Omar and Ayanna Pressley.

    A spokesman for Mitch McConnell, the Senate’s majority leader, declined to comment on the remarks and representatives for GOP leaders in the House have also chosen not to respond to requests for comment."


    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a9004821.html

  11. #4556
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    Quote Originally Posted by aja_christopher View Post
    "Republicans Refuse to Criticise Trump's Racist Tweets"

    "Donald Trump’s racist tweets urging Democratic congresswomen to “go back” to the countries they came from have provoked widespread outrage, but Republicans have refused to condemn the remarks.

    Members of the president’s party have remained largely silent after the xenophobic remarks aimed at progressive congresswomen, presumed to be Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Rashida Tlaib, Ilhan Omar and Ayanna Pressley.

    A spokesman for Mitch McConnell, the Senate’s majority leader, declined to comment on the remarks and representatives for GOP leaders in the House have also chosen not to respond to requests for comment."


    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a9004821.html
    Shocking. They are GOP villains now anyway. Fox News will just laugh it off and say the left is "over blowing" the tweet. Brush the racism aside, easy to do when there are no consequences from the GOP voters and the base agrees with the racism.

  12. #4557

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    Quote Originally Posted by aja_christopher View Post
    Trump alone has had dozens of scandals and criminal indictments within his administration yet you won't discuss said criminal behavior.

    Instead you again try to pivot to "Democrats" rather than discussing your own party's failings, proving exactly what was said about Republicans protecting their criminal representatives.

    This is possibly one of the worst anecdotal arguments I've seen -- we all know Republicans have far more criminals in their ranks than Democrats and pointing out one or two examples proves nothing whatsoever.

    Here are some facts about the criminal behavior of Republicans vs the criminal behavior of Democrats:



    It's ridiculous to argue that Democrats are the ones supporting criminals and corruption when Republicans are the main ones engaging in it.

    It can also be easily argued that the Republicans let Bush get away with plenty of criminal behavior, including torture, just as you won't discuss the criminal behavior of Trump. Until that changes, it's impossible to take you seriously as an objective observer, much less an honest debater.



    There's absolutely nothing "lucky" about having a racist and a xenophobe for president -- something you apparently don't understand since you seem to share similar outlooks on things like "open borders" and "limiting principles" justifying separating children from parents as a "deterrent", along with the aforementioned acceptance of criminal behavior from your party.
    I didn't pivot to Democratic behavior. It was a response to a comment about Democrats and Republicans.

    Kirby101 said "Why isn it that when Pelosi has a dispute with a few young, more progressive Dems, the Party is in disarray. But when the right wing loons in the GOP go off, like Gomert, King or the Freedom Caucus, all is still rainbows with their party?"

    To that, JDogindy said "Gotta protect the interests of the party at all costs. Ethics and morality be damned. That's why Republicans don't throw the corrupt politicians under the bus during times of scandal." I disagreed with his insinuation that Democrats don't protect the interests of their party, and that they uniformly throw corrupt politicians under the bus.

    As a Republican who doesn't like Trump, I certainly don't think it's lucky that he's the President. it's pretty bad for my party, a waste of an opportunity to govern.

    Quote Originally Posted by aja_christopher View Post
    You can easily look at the Clinton and Obama administrations as real examples of Democratic policy but you won't do that because you know it destroys your already weak argument that you can't hold Republicans accountable for their crimes and immorality because of "Democrats".
    The Clinton and Obama administrations dealt with different issues, and it's also not necessarily an indication that this is how they would govern now.

    Let's also not forget that Trump also chose Bolton as his Secretary of Defense and almost took us to war with Iran recently.

    Bush also proceeded to enact tax cuts and fiscal deregulation (just like Trump) that led to the second largest recession in American history.

    It's pretty clear that anyone who can come here and try to act as if "both sides" are the same has no knowledge of political history.
    Bolton wasn't chosen to be Secretary of Defense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    The democrats are making me choose Nazis by not stopping enough brown people from coming to the country
    Who's being made to vote for Nazis?

  13. #4558
    Ol' Doogie, Circa 2005 JDogindy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    One of the most illustrative scandals was the Ralph Notham one for Democrats.

    It shows the party is willing to punish colleagues for scandals when there are no costs to it, insisting on the removal of Al Franken when he'll be replaced by a successor chosen by a Democratic Governor (and when there was a special election where the Republican was accused of earlier wrongdoing in another state) or deciding after 2016's election that Bill Clinton should have resigned, but that the moment it might actually have political costs, they'll back their candidates.

    There were uniform calls for Ralph Northam to resign, until it turned out that the second in line (credibly accused of sexual assault by one woman and rape by another) and third in line (also did blackface in college) both had problems and taking a moral stand might result in Republicans getting power. This suggests to a cynic that Democrats aren't willing to throw anyone under the bus when it matters, and that concerns about ethics are just posturing.
    ...

    Right. Prove my point by using whataboutism to highlight a sexual deviant and a dipshit.

    You do know it's going to be a cold day in hell before you summon the courage to say anything negative about the Grand Ole Party, right?

  14. #4559
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aja_christopher View Post
    "Republicans Refuse to Criticise Trump's Racist Tweets"

    "Donald Trump’s racist tweets urging Democratic congresswomen to “go back” to the countries they came from have provoked widespread outrage, but Republicans have refused to condemn the remarks.

    Members of the president’s party have remained largely silent after the xenophobic remarks aimed at progressive congresswomen, presumed to be Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Rashida Tlaib, Ilhan Omar and Ayanna Pressley.

    A spokesman for Mitch McConnell, the Senate’s majority leader, declined to comment on the remarks and representatives for GOP leaders in the House have also chosen not to respond to requests for comment."


    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a9004821.html
    I've maintained that McConnell doesn't give a fuck what Trump says, as for the rest of those weasels, they're too damn gutless and afraid of Trump to do the right thing and condemn his vulgar comments. And by staying silent, they enable the orange bastard who's bound to say even more outrageous shit, safe and secure in the knowledge no one in his feckless, emasculated party will speak out against him.
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  15. #4560
    Ol' Doogie, Circa 2005 JDogindy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post

    Who's being made to vote for Nazis?


    However, in the 2018 elections, some state elections saw extremist candidates run for local office, notably in Illinois.
    Last edited by JDogindy; 07-15-2019 at 08:28 AM.

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