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  1. #4786
    Extraordinary Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    OH WBE-EEeeeeee… stuff for your 2020 update of Mike Kelly. :P

    Before the House voted along party lines to condemn President Trump for his racist tweets and rhetoric about four congresswomen of color, a white Republican lawmaker made the outlandish claim that he is a “person of color” because he’s white.


    “You know, they talk about people of color. I’m a person of color,” Rep. Mike Kelly (R-PA) told Vice News reporter Daniel Newhauser Tuesday as they discussed Trump telling the four congresswomen — Reps. Ilhan Omar (D-MN), Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY), Ayanna Pressley (D-MA) and Rashida Tlaib (D-MI) — to go back to their home countries, even though all four are U.S. citizens and three were born in the U.S.
    “I’m white. I’m an Anglo Saxon. People say things all the time, but I don’t get offended,” he said.
    “Has anybody ever told you to go back to your country?” Newhauser asked.
    “Yeah they have actually. With a name like Mike Kelly you can’t be from any place else but Ireland.’”
    Listen for yourself below:

  2. #4787
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    OH WBE-EEeeeeee… stuff for your 2020 update of Mike Kelly. :P
    Jesus. On behalf of Pennsylvania where this asshat hails, I humbly apologize for this four alarm fool being a representative of the Keystone State. I'd love it if Kelly sauntered into predominately black West Philadelphia where I live and proudly proclaim himself as a "person of color". chances are excellent he'd be laughed at before getting the shit kicked out of him. The lengths Republicans go to protect and enable Trump. It's astonishing.
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  3. #4788
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetengine View Post
    You cant say anything.

    Why ?

    Because immaterial of what you say the Republican base wont believe you and the term "socialist" has been made poison by them. Even though there are several nations working quite well using socialist ideals (not necessarily full on socialism but like all good governments picking and choosing)
    I fear you are correct.

  4. #4789
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    TThe thing is, The some of the policies that Sanders, AOC, Warren (?) are talking about are connecting with people ( healthcare reform, minimum wage, debt reform, etc). That's why the Republicans are coming after them so hard. Notice despite her being a WoC they don't say half the crap about Harris that they say about Cortez and Omar. Harris is on the radio claiming she smoked weed and listened to Snopp Dogg! Imagine if Cortez said that? It's cause Harris a blue dog and they think they can get what they want from her. With the others, they know they'll have a fight on their hands and they'll have to compromise.
    I think it's more because they are afraid of Harris because she knows that she can -- and has said she will -- prosecute them for their crimes if she gets elected and cowards and bullies usually don't try to attack people they fear unless they have to.



    They'll attack her more if she becomes the frontrunner but for now -- like most cowards -- they are going for the easier targets like the "radical socialists".

    Also, note that even though you might call her a "blue dog" she comes from one of the most progressive states in America, especially when it comes to civil rights and medical care -- there's a world of difference between a Mississippi Democrat and a California Democrat (and Mississippi and California voters) which is why it's often inaccurate to try to define the party with labels like "blue dog" and "moderate" based on personal judgement alone.
    Last edited by aja_christopher; 07-18-2019 at 06:00 AM.

  5. #4790
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    That young woman does always come off like she is putting a tremendous effort into not forgetting the recipe for ice.

    She makes Katrina Pierson look positively competent.

    I almost wonder if it is strictly "Bit" to act in the usual Ben Carson/Rudy Giuliani "Smoke Bomb" capacity.
    CNN pissed me off having her on for so long as a pundit. Its one of my biggest pet peeves with CNN they try so hard to "show both sides" they let these idiots get too much airtime.

  6. #4791
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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOn View Post
    None other than MLK Jr. himself warned of the dangers of putting too much trust in moderates. The fundamental issue is that while most of these people find racism to be distasteful and will vocally denounce it, they benefit materially from it and thus will stop well short of any substantial action to effect meaningful change. I feel like what these moderates are advocating for is just for minorities to stop talking about their problems so that white people don't need to feel bad about it, and hoping for things to miraculously work themselves out at some unspecified time in the future. But at this juncture, people just aren't willing to wait and see anymore, because we've tried that approach and it's gotten us nowhere.
    We absolutely need revolutionaries and people to push the agenda. I've made clear I appreciate their efforts to charge in and lend voice to things unvoiced. But if we're going to use MLK as an example....at the end of the day he needed those same moderates to finish the job. You can't trust that moderates will move the needle forward, but you damn sure need them when the time comes for legislation.

    When more people like AOC or Sanders or whomever win elections, great! But that isn't the case now and probably for the forseeable future. They don't need to "wait" but more self-awareness of their position of strength would be wise.

  7. #4792
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidfresh512 View Post
    CNN pissed me off having her on for so long as a pundit. Its one of my biggest pet peeves with CNN they try so hard to "show both sides" they let these idiots get too much airtime.
    I guess CNN would rather straddle the fence by presenting "both sides" than be an overtly shameless, blatantly biased propaganda arm like Faux News is for the Republican party. I can grasp that rationale.
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  8. #4793
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    Quote Originally Posted by WestPhillyPunisher View Post
    I guess CNN would rather straddle the fence by presenting "both sides" than be an overtly shameless, blatantly biased propaganda arm like Faux News is for the Republican party. I can grasp that rationale.
    I don't think it is an either or proposition. You don't have to hire and promote shameless shills that have arguments with no basis in reality. Especially over and over. If they demonstrate they will not stick to facts or reality then you are done go peddle your crap at Fox. It's getting harder and harder the further trump consumes the entire conservative spectrum to find people who are still reality based and will call a spade a spade. Since those people get immediately attacked by their own side. But, I am interested in hearing viewpoints from any side that are logical and operate in reality.

    I don't look for an echo chamber but listening to talking points based on lies, or blind shameless defense of the indefensible is not it.

  9. #4794
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidfresh512 View Post
    I don't think it is an either or proposition. You don't have to hire and promote shameless shills that have arguments with no basis in reality. Especially over and over. If they demonstrate they will not stick to facts or reality then you are done go peddle your crap at Fox. It's getting harder and harder the further trump consumes the entire conservative spectrum to find people who are still reality based and will call a spade a spade. Since those people get immediately attacked by their own side. But, I am interested in hearing viewpoints from any side that are logical and operate in reality.

    I don't look for an echo chamber but listening to talking points based on lies, or blind shameless defense of the indefensible is not it.
    Thing is, a significant portion of the populace is regurgitating those lies and defending the indefensible. Shouldn't that be challenged openly and publicly?

    I don't know if there is a good answer to this in terms of public discourse. (Beyond - kick the Republicans' asses so they are forced to change)

  10. #4795
    Genesis of A Nemesis Things Fall Apart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WestPhillyPunisher View Post
    The pattern has been almost always the same: A conservative/right winger saunters in, full of support for the likes of Trump and the GOP, presents semi-logical/rational arguments in the beginning, gets into increasingly heated discussions with us liberals, then loses his mind, says crazy shit like Bonesaw and WHAMMO! Ban city! I'm sure others like him will swing by and repeat history.
    Oh, you should see the meltdowns we've gotten over on the Diversity/Minority issues thread. We can usually figure out within the first post how long someone will last.
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  11. #4796
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidfresh512 View Post
    I don't think it is an either or proposition. You don't have to hire and promote shameless shills that have arguments with no basis in reality. Especially over and over. If they demonstrate they will not stick to facts or reality then you are done go peddle your crap at Fox. It's getting harder and harder the further trump consumes the entire conservative spectrum to find people who are still reality based and will call a spade a spade. Since those people get immediately attacked by their own side. But, I am interested in hearing viewpoints from any side that are logical and operate in reality.

    I don't look for an echo chamber but listening to talking points based on lies, or blind shameless defense of the indefensible is not it.
    Not to stick up for CNN, but perhaps they can't find any right wing pundits who haven't gone cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs, so they figure, better that than nobody. Or maybe it all boils down to something as simple, and shallow, as producers intentionally putting conservative loopjobs on the air just for the screaming matches with left leaners that inevitably take place. You tell me.


    Quote Originally Posted by Things Fall Apart View Post
    Oh, you should see the meltdowns we've gotten over on the Diversity/Minority issues thread. We can usually figure out within the first post how long someone will last.
    I can imagine.
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  12. #4797

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    Quote Originally Posted by aja_christopher View Post
    In case you haven't noticed, you're the only person who seems to be concerned about this "ambiguity" -- to the point where you won't directly address the racist, criminal, and abusive policies currently being enacted by your party.

    You need to just accept that others don't necessarily agree with that perspective and move on to something else.
    There are plenty on the left who seem to be concerned about the party's positioning on immigration.

    Here's a New York magazine discussion on the question.

    https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019...migration.html

    Here's Kevin Drum of Mother Jones.

    https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-dr...-open-borders/

    I might be a bit different from them in that they seem bothered by Democrats taking an unpopular position, and I think the position would have bad policy effects.

    I disagree with the idea that it prevents me from addressing other issues, because these are different topics. Views on immigration policy don't really touch on the questions of global warming, Russian interference, whatever.

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulBullion View Post
    So, there is tape of not just Trump partying hard (and dancing badly) with Jeffrey Epstein and a few dozen cheer leaders, one scene also clearly shows Trump groping one of the women repeatedly.
    Or, as the more seasoned news people call days like this, Wednesday.
    It'll be interesting to see what these women have to say about what happened.

    Quote Originally Posted by InformationGeek View Post
    Black and an immigrant. Will Republicans disdain for AOC be enough to overlook that?
    I doubt the Republicans will be the ones to stop her from winning a congressional seat in the Bronx.

  13. #4798

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    Thanks for the answers to the question of what is the most important issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    Let me throw another one in here that doesn't get much mention - the declining effectiveness of antibiotics. In a fashion similar to climate change, this has the potential to mess things up on a geological time scale. Everything else is a short term problem compared to those two.

    However, green technology has the potential to do serious damage to Russia's bid for influence since a lot of their power is based on providing energy to Europe. Take the threat of turning off the pipelines away from them and they lose a major source of economic power. Plus, we can stop worrying so much about the Middle East outside of the shipping lanes.
    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOn View Post
    Racism. America's original sin that has never been adequately addressed, and continue to kick the can down the road will just make the inevitable fallout that much worse. And this isn't just out of naive idealism, the reason most Republican economic and social policies fail so miserably is because they think that they can offload all of their problems onto minorities who will somehow be willing to bear that burden without complaint, and then act shocked and appalled when the blowback bites their precious white working class in the ass.
    Quote Originally Posted by aja_christopher View Post
    Getting Republicans out of office at this point, as they impede progress on nearly every issue that I think is worthy of concern -- including record-setting debt, the failure to address climate change, the failure to address Russian interference in our democracy, and a steadfast push towards criminal, authoritarian rule.
    Quote Originally Posted by Theleviathan View Post
    Put me down for the rapid changes in technology because they have tremendous effects across all the issues. It's why UBI should be a serious conversation point, why any conversation about global warming involves changes in tech, about job losses, etc. It's tech and it's really not even close. (Global warming is serious, but still a little ways off. The tech issue could be in the next decade)

    Though aj is right, the first priority is destroying this brand of Republicanism. I'm totally cool with a Kasich-like version re-emerging, but this toxic brand has to go.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    I'd say it's Climate Change and Income Inequity. Both of which the Republicans are on the wrong side of history.They deny CC is happening and do everything they can to make things worse. Trump is particularly an enviornmental ogre. And their policies and obsession with Tax Cuts for the Rich only puts more and more of the percentage of wealth into the hands of those at the top.
    My other brother who works in Washington gave another response: the decline in civility.

  14. #4799
    Genesis of A Nemesis Things Fall Apart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    My other brother who works in Washington gave another response: the decline in civility.
    Save all that.

    "Civility" hasn't done much to improve the standing of non-white people in this country. Bullets always seem to find the fierce and civil alike.

    "Civility", or at least the popular concept of it, is just another means for the people who have historically maintained power to dictate or limit the scope of criticism.
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  15. #4800
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    There are plenty on the left who seem to be concerned about the party's positioning on immigration.
    Then you probably should discuss your hypothetical open borders with those hypothetical people on the "left" instead of constantly trying to sell it to those of us who have more important and much more real concerns -- like a racist, child-abusing, hypocritical, criminal supporting, authoritarian Republican theocracy attempting to take over our government by suppressing the votes of non-white American citizens, while simultaneously treating non-white asylum seekers worse than prisoners in order to motivate their "base" to vote.
    Last edited by aja_christopher; 07-18-2019 at 08:46 AM.

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