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  1. #4966
    Extraordinary Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    https://twitter.com/timjacobwise/sta...093787141?s=21

    Take some time to read this whole thread from Tim Wise on his experience working against David Duke and what he thinks that means for confronting Trumpism.

  2. #4967
    Guardian Empress of Earth Tami's Avatar
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    You can also switch out 'Guns' with something along the lines of 'Anti-Abortion'
    Original join date: 11/23/2004
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  3. #4968
    Extraordinary Member Malvolio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    https://twitter.com/timjacobwise/sta...093787141?s=21

    Take some time to read this whole thread from Tim Wise on his experience working against David Duke and what he thinks that means for confronting Trumpism.
    He's right. The Democrats do need to stop acting like it's the debate club. I mean, Hillary won all of the debates in 2016, right? But did it matter to the voters in Michigan, Wisconsin or Pennsylvania?

  4. #4969

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    Quote Originally Posted by aja_christopher View Post
    In spite of your party's lack of civility -- not because of it.

    You're also omitting the fact that Republican "incivility" (the Tea Party, "birtherism", and overt Republican "base" racism) led to Republicans taking over Congress and later the presidency (by "birther in chief" Trump) by only mentioning his "wins".

    All those Democratic "gains" say nothing about the "civility" of Republicans or their party line obstruction and "Kenyan-Muslim" responses to Obama's "civility" -- conversely, the relative silence of your party in the face of blatant racism and Islamophobia proves they (and you) don't really care about civility beyond using it to attack political opponents.

    If you did you'd be constantly chastising your party -- the "party of Trump" -- instead of trying to justify racism, bigotry, and child abuse.

    Ironically, all you've proven is that Democrats respect civility a lot more than Republicans do.

    As usual, you're still not acknowledging the faults of your party, further proving the uselessness of this discussion.
    Obama benefited from the sense that he was civil. 2012 did seem some incivility from Democrats, like Harry Reid lying about Mitt Romney's tax records. By the way, what do you guys think of that one? Was it okay for Harry Reid to justify lying about Romney by saying that Obama won reelection? What isn't allowed if that is considered appropriate political behavior?

    I can't express points that haven't made on birtherism and the tea party.

    Some of the tea party nuts went too far, although it's worth noting they also targeted establishment Republicans.

    Birtherism was BS on multiple levels, and I sincerely doubt that it has helped the Republican party in general elections.

    The idea that Obama is a Kenyan-Muslim is obviously not civility, and should be condemned.

    The Merrick Garland situation was a different situation. It's not civil or uncivil. No one went after Garland's character or anything. Republicans had articulated their position early on, and had both the power (they held a Senate majority) and the argument. Democrats were hurt by the silence of the Clinton campaign. I get that it made more sense not to commit to an outcome without knowing how the 2016 election will go (especially when odds were that Democrats would keep the White House and take back the Senate) but this meant that they weren't making the election about the rightness of Garland getting a hearing, but about whether Democrats or Republicans should select the next Supreme Court justice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    If we want to fix those problems we need both Parties to acknowledge they exist. Civility is laughable when one party, yours, denies Climate Change, wants to undo the minor progress of the ACA and return to Insurance Companies with free reign anf no protection for preconditions and has been fighting and winning for decades to give the 1% a bigger and bigger piece of the pie.
    Trump, your Party's leader, with full cooperation from the Senate and Congressional GOP has had an astoundingly abysmal record on all of these.

    Your Party isn't looking to solve these things, the are actively making things worse,
    Again, civility isn't just about one side versus another.

    If Democrats win the White House, the Senate and the House, there are still going to be arguments between the justice democrats and the establishment.

    The problem with climate change isn't arguments about whether it exists, but what the solutions are. What should we spend money on, what should we outlaw, what regulations should we implement, and what are the consequences and costs of all of that? A lot of carbon production is going to be in the developing world, so there's also the question of how we handle that. Is war with India on the table?

    Health care is similarly complex and expensive, with every potential outcome have some kind of tradeoffs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malvolio View Post
    Really? No one? So Sarah Sanders and Kelly Anne Conway don't count?

    This is my point. First, the bully harasses and teases his victim. Then, when the victim fights back by telling everyone about the bullying, the bully denies doing it. So the victim makes sure that the next time, the bullying will be in full public view. Then, the bully admits doing it, but claims that it was no big deal, that the victim enjoyed. Then, finally when the victim yells, in exasperation, that, no, they did not enjoy it, the bully backs up a bit and says, "Hey, what are you getting so bent out of shape about? I was being civil."

    But yeah, we have to be civil.
    I was responding to Aja Christopher's video, rather than making a point about Conway and Sanders. I've addressed the other points.

  5. #4970
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    The Merrick Garland situation was a different situation. It's not civil or uncivil. No one went after Garland's character or anything. Republicans had articulated their position early on, and had both the power (they held a Senate majority) and the argument. Democrats were hurt by the silence of the Clinton campaign. I get that it made more sense not to commit to an outcome without knowing how the 2016 election will go (especially when odds were that Democrats would keep the White House and take back the Senate) but this meant that they weren't making the election about the rightness of Garland getting a hearing, but about whether Democrats or Republicans should select the next Supreme Court justice.
    The fact that Mitchocrite has abandoned his 'strongly held position' now that it is no longer convenient is quite telling. He is the most openly hypocritical politician I have ever seen in the US, and the man wears it like a badge of honor.
    "Theory: The Phoenix doesn't corrupt the characters, it corrupts the authors." Gambit, King of Thieves

  6. #4971
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malvolio View Post
    He's right. The Democrats do need to stop acting like it's the debate club. I mean, Hillary won all of the debates in 2016, right? But did it matter to the voters in Michigan, Wisconsin or Pennsylvania?
    He's also right that policy doesn't mean squat. This is by far Warren's biggest blind spot.

  7. #4972
    Extraordinary Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theleviathan View Post
    He's also right that policy doesn't mean squat. This is by far Warren's biggest blind spot.
    Warren understands that, I think. She's selling the /idea/ that she has a plan for everything in a climate where the only plan is that there is no plan and admist the chaos of the trump administration. Also, the voters she's chasing in the primary like that.

  8. #4973
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    Obama benefited from the sense that he was civil. 2012 did seem some incivility from Democrats
    But not nearly as much as from the Republicans and you know that.

    Your false equivalency isn't fooling anyone, and the "civility" of your party is on full display with Trump, no matter what you say here on these forums.

  9. #4974
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    Warren understands that, I think. She's selling the /idea/ that she has a plan for everything in a climate where the only plan is that there is no plan and admist the chaos of the trump administration. Also, the voters she's chasing in the primary like that.
    She's still running second at best. In the debates all she wanted to talk was policy. I would bet if you attend a campaign rally for her you'll hear 95% policy. (A few people alluded to that in the comments)

    I like her policies, but she's not got a very good balance right now. It's ok to claim you're the calming cure for the chaos, but then you need to talk more about the chaos.

  10. #4975
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    The problem with climate change isn't arguments about whether it exists, but what the solutions are. What should we spend money on, what should we outlaw, what regulations should we implement, and what are the consequences and costs of all of that? A lot of carbon production is going to be in the developing world, so there's also the question of how we handle that. Is war with India on the table?

    .
    Your party thinks Climate Change doesn't exist Mets.

  11. #4976
    Extraordinary Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theleviathan View Post
    She's still running second at best. In the debates all she wanted to talk was policy. I would bet if you attend a campaign rally for her you'll hear 95% policy. (A few people alluded to that in the comments)

    I like her policies, but she's not got a very good balance right now. It's ok to claim you're the calming cure for the chaos, but then you need to talk more about the chaos.
    Second against Biden is really good in this context, if we're honest, but let's remember she's not running a general election campaign right now.

  12. #4977
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    Trump Promotes Far-Right Commentator Who Blames Jews For Deadly U.S. Synagogue Attack

    Katie Hopkins has also called for a “final solution” — for Muslims. This is YOUR president of YOUR party, Mets. One who promotes psychopaths like this bitch.

    **********

    Louisiana Police Officer Suggests Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Be Shot In Facebook Post

    The violent remark comes amid heightened concern for lawmakers’ safety following Trump’s attacks on congresswomen of color. THIS is what Trump's verbal attacks on AOC and 'The Squad' have wrought. I fear it's only a matter of time before some unbalanced MAGAmaniac takes a potshot at her or the others.

    **********

    Mike Pence Skips Chance To Strongly Rebuke ‘Send Her Back’ Chants

    The vice president neglected to speak out against the racist line when given the opportunity in a recent interview. Show of hands if you're surprised. Red Grant, like the rest in the GOP unfailingly have Dolt45's back, showing they're just as racist as he is. Meanwhile....

    **********

    Rep. Elijah Cummings: ‘No Doubt’ Donald Trump Is A Racist

    The Maryland Democrat said his constituents are “scared” of the president. I would imagine most people of color are fearful of Trump as he ratches up his overt racism.

    **********

    Nadler: Mueller Hearing To Air Evidence Of Trump Wrongdoing

    The House Judiciary Committee chairman said this week’s hearing with Robert Mueller will air “very substantial evidence” of wrongdoing by President Trump. Will it make a difference? Sadly, no. Republicans will ride AND die with Trump while his followers will dismiss it all as fake news.
    Avatar: Here's to the late, great Steve Dillon. Best. Punisher. Artist. EVER!

  13. #4978
    Extraordinary Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WestPhillyPunisher View Post
    Trump Promotes Far-Right Commentator Who Blames Jews For Deadly U.S. Synagogue Attack

    Katie Hopkins has also called for a “final solution” — for Muslims. This is YOUR president of YOUR party, Mets. One who promotes psychopaths like this bitch.
    Now, now. Be civil when talking about conservative grifters who peddle hate and genocidal fantasies for profit.

  14. #4979
    Extraordinary Member Malvolio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    Warren understands that, I think. She's selling the /idea/ that she has a plan for everything in a climate where the only plan is that there is no plan and admist the chaos of the trump administration. Also, the voters she's chasing in the primary like that.
    So she'll pivot to identity politics if she gets the nomination? I guess we'll see.

  15. #4980
    Extraordinary Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malvolio View Post
    So she'll pivot to identity politics if she gets the nomination? I guess we'll see.
    I don't know that I'd call it a pivot to identity politics in the context Wise is talking about.

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