All Purpose News and Politics Thread Part IV: The Center Cannot Hold

[Rosa Luxemburg]

Do you have any source for that? Not being aggressive here, just skeptical.

https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-amer...hoices-for-dem

Saying it was a majority was a mistake on my part, but Biden gets 26% of Bernie's supporters while Warren gets 16%.

Among Sanders's supporters, 26 percent said they supported Biden as a second choice, followed by Warren at 16 percent and Harris at 7 percent.

[Tami]

Do you have any source for that? Not being aggressive here, just skeptical.

I don't know what Rosa's source is, but I found this

Elizabeth Warren Has 2020 Momentum. But These Bernie Sanders Supporters Say They'll Never Vote for Her—Even Against Trump

The data shows she is drawing in a big chunk of support from both moderate and liberal Democratic primary voters. Warren is the most popular second choice among not only Biden's supporters but also those backing independent Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders, a democratic socialist.

Yet there is a group of Sanders supporters active on social media who say, as they did in 2016 when he ran against Hillary Clinton, that it is "Bernie or bust." Warren may appeal to many Sanders supporters. But some of them say they will never vote for her—in either the primaries or 2020.

Victor Tiffany, an activist from New York, describes himself as the godfather of the #BernieorBust campaign, which started back in 2015. He even co-authored a book on it: Bernie or Bust: Pioneers of Electoral Revolt. And he has plenty of reasons for never voting Warren even in a two-horse race with Trump.
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"Take your pick: She's 'a capitalist to her bones,' consulting with Hillary Clinton, a warmonger who's been voting for Trump's defense budgets, not especially honest, not progressive but a 'fauxgressive' Obamawannabe, and more," Tiffany tells Newsweek.

He does not believe that Warren is a strong enough candidate to defeat Trump. Or, if Trump is removed from office through the current impeachment efforts, Vice President Mike Pence. Why? The economy is performing too well.

"In 2016 Bernie or Bust was a prediction. This time, it's bigger and better organized. #BernieOrBust is a foregone conclusion whether Warren's supporters like it or not," Tiffany said. "Only Bernie has the coalition to defeat Trump unless there's a recession. Then Mickey Mouse could defeat Trump."

Yanette Rivera describes herself as a stay at home mom in Pennsylvania. She supports Sanders. And to her, it's also Bernie or bust. "I don't trust any other candidate to do what I want of a president," Rivera tells Newsweek.

"And I can't vote for any of them in the general cause I can't trust the media to keep them accountable to the public, unlike with Trump. With Trump even those that don't pay attention must and do. It shouldn't be that way but it is."

[mathew101281]

I don't know what Rosa's source is, but I found this

Elizabeth Warren Has 2020 Momentum. But These Bernie Sanders Supporters Say They'll Never Vote for Her—Even Against Trump

I’m beginning to think Bernie support is personality cult, not unlike Trump supporters.

[Gray Lensman]

I’m beginning to think Bernie support is personality cult, not unlike Trump supporters.

Partly. The other part is much of Sanders support comes from people who think the system is broken beyond repair and needs to be blown up and rebuilt from scratch - something they have in common with Trump supporters. Warren still thinks the system can work, even if it is in need of a drastic overhaul/complete rebuild. She isn't willing to blow it up like they want.

Basically, to borrow a phrase from Benedict Donald - it's about the swamp, and what they think the swamp is. Warren's supporters think the swamp is the cozy relationship between big business and government, and the number of business execs in charge of major departments that often are charged with regulating exactly those businesses they represent. Sanders' supporters think the swamp is made up of entrenched political players first, and the business/government crossover second. And Trump's supporters think the swamp is the civil service for some reason.

[Tami]

Opening Statement of Marie L.Yovanovitch to the House of Representatives Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, Committee on Foreign Affairs, and Committee on Oversight and Reform, October11, 2019

During my Tenure in Ukraine
• As for events during my tenure in Ukraine, I want to
categorically state that I have never myself or through others,
directly or indirectly, ever directed, suggested, or in any
other way asked for any government or government official
in Ukraine (or elsewhere) to refrain from investigating or
prosecuting actual corruption. As Mr. Lutsenko, the former
Ukrainian Prosecutor General has recently acknowledged,
the notion that I created or disseminated a “do not prosecute”
list is completely false—a story that Mr. Lutsenko, himself,
has since retracted.

Equally fictitious is the notion that I am disloyal to President
Trump. I have heard the allegation in the media that I
supposedly told the Embassy team to ignore the President’s
orders “since he was going to be impeached.” That
allegation is false. I have never said such a thing, to my
Embassy colleagues or to anyone else.

• Next, the Obama administration did not ask me to help the
Clinton campaign or harm the Trump campaign, nor would
I have taken any such steps if they had.

I have never met Hunter Biden, nor have I had any direct or
indirect conversations with him. And although I have met
former Vice President Biden several times over the course
of our many years in government, neither he nor the previous
Administration ever, directly or indirectly, raised the issue
of either Burisma or Hunter Biden with me.

• With respect to Mayor Giuliani, I have had only minimal
contacts with him—a total of three that I recall. None related
to the events at issue. I do not know Mr. Giuliani’s motives
for attacking me. But individuals who have been named in
the press as contacts of Mr. Giuliani may well have believed
that their personal financial ambitions were stymied by our
anti-corruption policy in Ukraine

Finally, after being asked by the Department in early March
to extend my tour until 2020, I was then abruptly told in late
April to come back to Washington from Ukraine “on the next
plane.” You will understandably want to ask why my
posting ended so suddenly. I wanted to learn that too, and I
tried to find out. I met with the Deputy Secretary of State, who informedme of the curtailment of my term.He said that
the Presidenthad lost confidence inme andno longer wished
me to serve as his ambassador. He added that there hadbeen
a concerted campaign against me, and that the Department
had been under pressure from the President to remove me
since the Summer of 2018. He also said that I had done
nothing wrong and that this was not like other situations
where he had recalled ambassadors for cause. I departed
Ukraine for good this past May.

Although I understand that I served at the pleasure of the
President, I was nevertheless incredulous that the U.S.
government chose to remove an Ambassador based, as best
as I can tell, on unfounded and false claims by people with
clearly questionable motives. To make matters worse, all of
this occurred during an especially challenging time in
bilateral relations with a newly elected Ukrainian president.
This was precisely the time when continuity in the Embassy
in Ukraine was most needed.

[Tami]

Exclusive: Turkey Bombs US Special Forces in Syria Attack, Apparently by Mistake

Newsweek has learned through both an Iraqi Kurdish intelligence official and senior Pentagon official that Special Forces operating on Mashtenour hill in the majority-Kurdish city of Kobani fell under artillery fire from Turkish forces conducting their so-called "Operation Peace Spring" against Kurdish fighters backed by the U.S. but considered terrorist organizations by Turkey.

The senior Pentagon official said that Turkish forces should be aware of U.S. positions "down to the grid." The official could not specify the exact number of personnel present, but indicated they were "small numbers below company level," so somewhere between 15 and 100 troops.

The US shared intelligence with Turkey that may have helped it target the Kurds in Syria

The US provided Turkey with intelligence that may have helped it track and target Kurdish forces in Syria that played a vital role in the US-led fight against ISIS, The New York Times reported on Wednesday.

The US was providing intelligence to Turkey on the region as part of a counterterrorism partnership up until Monday, a Department of Defense official told The Times, the day after the Trump administration announced it was pulling US troops from northeastern Syria ahead of a Turkish operation.

Trump's decision to pull US forces from the region has been broadly criticized as a betrayal of the Kurds and a green light for a Turkish military operation, though the president disputes this.

Isis militants break out of prison in Syria after bombing by Turkey

Five Isis militants have broken out of a prison in northern Syria after Turkish shelling nearby, a spokesman in the Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) has said.

The detainees escaped from a prison in Qamishli city, Marvan Qamishlo said.

Meanwhile, women affiliated with Isis attacked security offices with sticks and stones during unrest at a camp in the region where Turkey has launched attacks.

The unrest at al-Hol camp started in the foreigners’ section and involved more people than previous incidents at the camp, Mr Qamishlo said.

[Powerboy]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/cel...cid=spartandhp

Jane Fonda arrested for continuing to rally against ignorant conservative attitudes. In this case, protesting anti-science climate change denial.

[BeastieRunner]

Exclusive: Turkey Bombs US Special Forces in Syria Attack, Apparently by Mistake



The US shared intelligence with Turkey that may have helped it target the Kurds in Syria





Isis militants break out of prison in Syria after bombing by Turkey

I was just going to share these.

[BeastieRunner]

Shep is leaving Fox News.

[Dalak]

Shep is leaving Fox News.

How long ago did A.G. Barr meet with Rupert Murdoch again?

[BeastieRunner]

Beastie's Cartoons of the Week:

[Surf]

Exclusive: Turkey Bombs US Special Forces in Syria Attack, Apparently by Mistake



The US shared intelligence with Turkey that may have helped it target the Kurds in Syria





Isis militants break out of prison in Syria after bombing by Turkey

Truly horrible. Fucking Rand Paul was hawking a book on CBS News yesterday morning backing The President on this action. Sickening, this the type of shitty human so many people back. No plan for ANYTHING, cut and run.

[shooshoomanjoe]

I’m beginning to think Bernie support is personality cult, not unlike Trump supporters.

The loyalty part yes but they don't have the delusional views we see with trump supporters.

[wjowski]

The loyalty part yes but they don't have the delusional views we see with trump supporters.

Calling Warren a 'fauxgressive' sounds pretty delusional to me.

[shooshoomanjoe]

Shep is leaving Fox News.

Prediction: Judge Napolitano will be out, Kilmeade will stay but will tone down or stop criticizing trump.