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  1. #1501
    Postin' since Aug '05 Dalak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ohnooze View Post
    I don't disagree at all. I don't support abortion but at the same time it's very true that the parents or children are left in a tough situation if they can't abort.
    The only way to avoid this issue is abstinence. You simply should not be having sex if you can't keep a child. It's irresponsible and in some cases (depending on the person) it's damaging to their mental and physical health as well.
    Recently Alyssa Milano decided to call for a "sex strike" to avoid having unwanted children. She's making the point that if you don't have sex you won't get pregnant...though I don't think that was her plan.
    So you're for restricting sex to those who can afford to raise a child? Personally I believe in freedom of choice and freedom of religion, so I'd rather not have religious hypocrites in office tell me that Sharia law is wrong but Abortion/LGBT's are worse so we have to have Christian Laws codified to protect their rights to discriminate against any and everyone they feel like.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kusanagi View Post
    The best ways to reduce abortions (you'll never be rid of them, making the illegal just creates illegal abortions)
    Comprehensive Sex Education
    Easy access to contraceptives.

    The best ways to encourage women to go through a pregnancy and raise a child
    Lowered Medical costs
    Better Pre-natal care
    Increased funding/aid in daycare/schooling

    The religious right supports none of these issues. They're just pro birth/Anti non-procreation sex.
    +1 Supporting adoption to those who aren't straight as an arrow who can raise the children would help as well.

  2. #1502
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ohnooze View Post
    I don't disagree at all. I don't support abortion but at the same time it's very true that the parents or children are left in a tough situation if they can't abort.
    The only way to avoid this issue is abstinence. You simply should not be having sex if you can't keep a child. It's irresponsible and in some cases (depending on the person) it's damaging to their mental and physical health as well.
    Recently Alyssa Milano decided to call for a "sex strike" to avoid having unwanted children. She's making the point that if you don't have sex you won't get pregnant...though I don't think that was her plan.
    That's not at all how people work, like it or not people fuck and these services exist because of that. All that removing Roe Versus Wade does is change where the abortion comes from and how its done. That's it. Living "irresponsibly" by fucking means you might as well get rid of condoms and birth control pills. And also, you cannot guarantee abstinence across the board because young people and rapists exist. People make mistakes or a condom breaks and people commit crimes. People have nights drunk or just don't care and they never see the mother or father again, it happens. Even if it was 1% that make up abortion, that's a lot of people in the United States who need help that the government wont give.

    And if it's 1% compared to the total population, why do they care? Well it's a religious/philosophical issue at the end of the day and there is a separation (or at least there is supposed to be) of church and state, and nobody can agree on when life begins. Instead of solving for X, they try to take hold of people's vaginas and by extension penis. Yeah a thing they are forgetting is what happens when that baby is born? Suddenly child-support come into play and they can and do track the parent down. You'd think that would be enough of a deterrent, but even then it is not.

    Planned parenthood is one of those things that help figure out all that mess because when you don't, you put a child in a tough spot it will not be able to manage until it (or if) survives to legal adulthood.
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  3. #1503
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalak View Post
    So you're for restricting sex to those who can afford to raise a child? Personally I believe in freedom of choice and freedom of religion, so I'd rather not have religious hypocrites in office tell me that Sharia law is wrong but Abortion/LGBT's are worse so we have to have Christian Laws codified to protect their rights to discriminate against any and everyone they feel like.
    I'm saying that it's irresponsible to be having sex if you have no intentions of keeping a child should you get pregnant. And protected sex is not expensive so lets not act like you need to be making a ton of money to buy condoms. They may not be 100% but it doesn't really matter because most people who are getting abortions are not using safe sex anyway.

  4. #1504
    Postin' since Aug '05 Dalak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ohnooze View Post
    I'm saying that it's irresponsible to be having sex if you have no intentions of keeping a child should you get pregnant. And protected sex is not expensive so lets not act like you need to be making a ton of money to buy condoms. They may not be 100% but it doesn't really matter because most people who are getting abortions are not using safe sex anyway.
    Seeing as the one person I know who's had an abortion did so because the condom broke I disagree. It's anecdotal and she's become a born again christian woman who became upset that someone cursed around her 3 month old infant she had years later, but it's what I've experienced.

  5. #1505
    Astonishing Member Kusanagi's Avatar
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    Abstinence only works if you make the choice, absolutely believe in it, and are 100% committed to it.

    It's why it can't be just taught to someone, and when morons put abstinence only education in schools you see a spike in pregnancies, abortions, and std outbreaks.
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  6. #1506
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperiorIronman View Post
    That's not at all how people work, like it or not people fuck and these services exist because of that. All that removing Roe Versus Wade does is change where the abortion comes from and how its done. That's it. Living "irresponsibly" by fucking means you might as well get rid of condoms and birth control pills. And also, you cannot guarantee abstinence across the board because young people and rapists exist. People make mistakes or a condom breaks and people commit crimes. People have nights drunk or just don't care and they never see the mother or father again, it happens. Even if it was 1% that make up abortion, that's a lot of people in the United States who need help that the government wont give.

    And if it's 1% compared to the total population, why do they care? Well it's a religious/philosophical issue at the end of the day and there is a separation (or at least there is supposed to be) of church and state, and nobody can agree on when life begins. Instead of solving for X, they try to take hold of people's vaginas and by extension penis. Yeah a thing they are forgetting is what happens when that baby is born? Suddenly child-support come into play and they can and do track the parent down. You'd think that would be enough of a deterrent, but even then it is not.

    Planned parenthood is one of those things that help figure out all that mess because when you don't, you put a child in a tough spot it will not be able to manage until it (or if) survives to legal adulthood.
    Ultimately you're saying that people are irresponsible and that because it's going to happen we should kill the unborn. That way they are not a burden to the irresponsible people or the public who end up supporting them in one way or another.

    I agree that you can not stop it across the board...that is completely impossible. But if people did act more responsible are take ownership of their actions we would not be having this conversation. I'm not saying it's realistic though...especially in these days where everything is about sex and there are no limits.

  7. #1507
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalak View Post
    Seeing as the one person I know who's had an abortion did so because the condom broke I disagree. It's anecdotal and she's become a born again christian woman who became upset that someone cursed around her 3 month old infant she had years later, but it's what I've experienced.
    I know several people who have had one. One of them who had more than one and all of them were having unprotected sex. Breaking condoms is not the reason people are getting pregnant....that is not an overly common situation. It happens sure...but that's not the problem here.

  8. #1508
    Extraordinary Member Malvolio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kusanagi View Post
    Abstinence only works if you make the choice, absolutely believe in it, and are 100% committed to it.

    It's why it can't be just taught to someone, and when morons put abstinence only education in schools you see a spike in pregnancies, abortions, and std outbreaks.
    There are three types of kids who take "abstinence pledges." There are the ones who take the pledge honestly and follow through and don't have sex until they're married or ready to have a child. They'll be ok. Then there are the ones who take the pledge to please their parents and teachers, but have no intention of following through. They often know where to get condoms or other forms of birth control, so they'll probably be ok. But it's the third group that we should be concerned about, the kids who know they have hormonal urges, but take the pledge, crossing their fingers that taking the pledge will keep them chaste. But sooner or later, some of them are overcome with passion and they have sex, but because they believed that the pledge would work, they never got any birth control, so they often become pregnant, but have no resources to provide for a baby. And that's why abstinence only education doesn't work.

  9. #1509

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    Meanwhile, Colorado started a program to help lower-income teens get IUDs, and have seen the pregnancy, and abortion rates plummet.

    The "pro-life" crowd is actually anti-choice... because even though there's a thing that made LESS ABORTIONS, they hate it, because women get to have sex.

    Any argument otherwise is facetious.
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    It’s so weird having sex with someone who has an IUD though

  11. #1511
    Horrific Experiment JCAll's Avatar
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    The conservative push to outlaw abortion has never been about abortion; it's about control, it's about punishing women, and it's about proving "moral" superiority.

  12. #1512
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCAll View Post
    The conservative push to outlaw abortion has never been about abortion; it's about control, it's about punishing women, and it's about proving "moral" superiority.
    Do you really believe that trash? Seriously I don't mean to be rude but that is some whack crap right there. Drop the conspiracy stuff....punishing women? OMG....just wow.

  13. #1513
    What fresh hell is this? ChadH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    'A hate-for-profit racket': Warren refuses Fox town hall invite
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    https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...n-hall-1320068
    I mean...she's not wrong.
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  14. #1514
    Postin' since Aug '05 Dalak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ohnooze View Post
    I know several people who have had one. One of them who had more than one and all of them were having unprotected sex. Breaking condoms is not the reason people are getting pregnant....that is not an overly common situation. It happens sure...but that's not the problem here.
    There are 2 problems here. The first is expecting everyone else to live to an impossibly high standard and shaming them when they do not, the second is enforcing ones own beliefs on others in a country where that is against the constitution. These become especially egregious when coupled with the hypocrisy of the Religious Right/Pro-Life movement when they restrict birth control, restrict adoptions, and shame people for having sex at all. Considering how many prominent folks are embroiled in sex scandals (Often involving abortion from those 'against' it) and how anyone in any position of power will not acknowledge thier mistakes unless publicly confronted with them, claiming that everyone should just accept responsibility for their actions is ludicrous. Hell, our current society is built around the concept of 'You can do anything you want as long as you don't get caught' and even if you are there are people who'll defend even the worst actions as long as it suits their purposes regardless of how morally reprehensible it is to do/defend.

  15. #1515
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalak View Post
    There are 2 problems here. The first is expecting everyone else to live to an impossibly high standard and shaming them when they do not, the second is enforcing ones own beliefs on others in a country where that is against the constitution. These become especially egregious when coupled with the hypocrisy of the Religious Right/Pro-Life movement when they restrict birth control, restrict adoptions, and shame people for having sex at all. Considering how many prominent folks are embroiled in sex scandals (Often involving abortion from those 'against' it) and how anyone in any position of power will not acknowledge thier mistakes unless publicly confronted with them, claiming that everyone should just accept responsibility for their actions is ludicrous. Hell, our current society is built around the concept of 'You can do anything you want as long as you don't get caught' and even if you are there are people who'll defend even the worst actions as long as it suits their purposes regardless of how morally reprehensible it is to do/defend.
    Everyone should just accept responsibility for their actions. I didn't say they would I said they should. It's being responsible....this seems to be a concept that we are losing in the US lately.

    I do not agree that our current society is built around the concept of You can do anything you want as long as you don't get caught. But that’s ok…we are starting to drift into other subjects with that.

    Speaking of being responsible I need to get some work done. I do want to say this though….I am a religious person. I am and will always be Christian, God willing. But that said I have no interest in shaming people for mistakes. I understand it’s not a perfect world. In fact I grew up as a man whore and honestly even then I did not agree with abortion. I’m honest enough to admit that had one of my lady friends gotten pregnant I would probably have chosen abortion. Unfortunately when you’re young, stupid, scared and have no resources it seems like the only option.

    In my perfect world (here and now) we would find ways and sink resources into deterring people from sex when they are not responsible enough to keep a child. But that’s not where we are right now and this is a topic that has no easy answers.

    I appreciate the conversation and you guys being civil. These topics do tend to get heated at times. Now I go to get some work done.
    Last edited by Ohnooze; 05-15-2019 at 10:55 AM.

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