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  1. #1591
    Astonishing Member Kusanagi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WestPhillyPunisher View Post
    Did someone say “Space Pirates”? That got Ryoko’s attention!

    I was going to say I could buy Mihoshi as a Trump vote, but probably only by accident.
    Current Pull: Amazing Spider-Man and Domino

    Bunn for Deadpool's Main Book!

  2. #1592
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    As for the importance of life, I'm fine with actually getting serious about creating a situation where there are no unwanted children being born.

    - For starters, we are going to need a government funded vasectomy for every boy as soon as he hits puberty. It's not like they are of legal age to be making the calls.
    - Once they are of legal age, they can have the vasectomy reversed. If they get a woman pregnant that doesn't want to keep the kid? They get a hundred and fifty years because clearly we need to create a legitimate deterrent if we are going to be serious about not potentially creating an unwanted life.

  3. #1593
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    The same way that an execution is a murder. Again, this bit about preserving life is largely hot garbage once you take any sort of an actual look at it.

    As for "You would stop someone...", it is also hot garbage. It's not like a law was passed to get serious about educating young adults on safe sex.

    As for "That We Consider To Be A Human Being...", how is it that folks murdered during an execution fit into that picture? Have they stopped being human beings?
    I don't see an execution of an adult on death row as the same thing. But I don't know why you're even bringing executions anyway.

  4. #1594
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ohnooze View Post
    I don't see an execution of an adult on death row as the same thing. But I don't know why you're even bringing executions anyway.
    Again, this is incredibly simple.

    Provide a legitimate scenario where an execution is not taking life. If you cannot, you are deciding which instances in which taking life is acceptable. Once we have established that there are some scenarios where it is acceptable, you can take trying to dictate where it is and is not and shove it.

  5. #1595
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    Quote Originally Posted by aja_christopher View Post
    I'm not deciding anything for the woman who has to carry the child -- that's my point.

    And your last statement is so full of irony that I'll just let it stand on it's own merits.
    Forgot who I was talking to. Hang ups are bad.

  6. #1596
    Astonishing Member Tuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    Provide a legitimate scenario where an execution is not taking life. If you cannot, you are deciding which instances in which taking life is acceptable. Once we have established that there are some scenarios where it is acceptable, you can take trying to dictate where it is and is not and shove it.
    Huh?

    Capital murder is a thing that some jurisdictions have decided warrants the loss of the right to life through due process, the same as it would take away the right to liberty or property in other less severe criminal cases.

    If one sincerely believes there is no moral difference between an unborn child and one that has already been born, it's still philosophically consistent, because that child has done nothing. If it were to grow up and commit capital murder, however, it would then be subject to possible execution.

    I've never understood not seeing the difference. (I mean, I also don't understand people who invoke their Catholic faith in a pro-life argument, but then also support the death penalty, which the Church is against.)

  7. #1597
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ohnooze View Post
    Forgot who I was talking to. Hang ups are bad.
    Like I said before, my opinions are based on experience, and you're only further confirming said experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ohnooze View Post
    So you decide when consciousness begins?
    So an unborn child that knows the sound of his mothers voice and feels stress has no consciousness...so if I feel like a 3 month old has no consciousness then I guess we just give him the needle. Everyone has a bad habit of pushing their views on others, stop pointing at people of faith for everything you don't like about the world.
    But just for fun -- what "view" have I pushed on you?

    And when did I point my finger at people of faith for everything I don't like about the world -- rather than, specifically, anti-abortion efforts and performing horrendous actions (the Inquisition, the Crusades, Manifest Destiny, etc) in the name of religion or God?
    Last edited by aja_christopher; 05-15-2019 at 07:29 PM.

  8. #1598
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    Quote Originally Posted by aja_christopher View Post
    Like I said before, my opinions are based on experience, and you're only further confirming said experience.



    But just for fun -- what "view" have I pushed on you?

    And when did I point my finger at people of faith for everything I don't like about the world -- rather than, specifically, anti-abortion efforts and performing horrendous actions (the Inquisition, the Crusades, Manifest Destiny, etc) in the name of religion or God?
    Am I so bad? You clearly really dislike faith and seem to be pretty passionate about it.

  9. #1599
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ohnooze View Post
    Am I so bad? You clearly really dislike faith and seem to be pretty passionate about it.
    I never said that -- I said it might be better to ask why so much of the "Christian faith" had left Jesus, especially when it comes to the "Christian" right.

    And I also never said you were "bad" -- I just asked you what view I've pushed on you, since you said everyone does it, and then pointed out that religion has been behind a lot of repressive and outright torturous and genocidal acts in an effort to force itself on others.

    I'm reasonable enough to understand that not all Christians are the same and that not every religion is inherently "evil" so don't assume I think you're "bad" just because you're Christian (or religious in general) but it is telling that you've already seemingly judged me, even going so far as to tell me to get rid of my "hang ups" and to stop blaming religion for "everything".

    I just asked a few questions in response to your accusations -- like when did I blame people of faith for everything I don't like in the world?
    Last edited by aja_christopher; 05-15-2019 at 07:49 PM.

  10. #1600
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    Quote Originally Posted by aja_christopher View Post
    I never said that -- I said it might be better to ask why so much of the "Christian faith" had left Jesus, especially when it comes to the "Christian" right.

    And I also never said you were "bad" -- I just asked you what view I've pushed on you, since you said everyone does it, and then pointed out that religion has been behind a lot of repressive and outright torturous and genocidal acts in an effort to force itself on others.

    I'm reasonable enough to understand that not all Christians are the same and that not every religion is inherently "evil" so don't assume I think you're "bad" just because you're Christian (or religious in general) but it is telling that you've already seemingly judged me, even going so far as to tell me to get rid of my "hang ups" and to stop blaming religion for "everything".

    I just asked a few questions in response to your accusations -- like when did I blame people of faith for everything I don't like in the world?
    You did not push any view on me. My point is that it's not a Christian problem it's a people problem. As for your hang up with faith...well that's just how it comes across. Seems like you're harboring some resentment.

  11. #1601
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ohnooze View Post
    You did not push any view on me. My point is that it's not a Christian problem it's a people problem.
    Some people seem to have this problem a lot more than others.

    I get your point about how "all have fallen short" and all, but your faith doesn't give you the right to tell others what they should do and how they should behave.

  12. #1602
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    Quote Originally Posted by aja_christopher View Post
    Some people seem to have this problem a lot more than others.

    I get your point about how "all have fallen short" and all, but your faith doesn't give you the right to tell others what they should do and how they should behave.
    Continue tomorrow. It's getting late.

  13. #1603

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    There's an interesting controversy at Harvard. An African-American law professor has been removed as faculty dean following pushback from students. A big part of the pushback is that he's defending Harvey Weinstein.


    Conor Friedersdorf writes about it for The Atlantic.


    Outsiders can’t know to what degree representing Weinstein inspired the ouster, and to what degree longtime critics of the faculty dean, such as the ones alluded to in a Harvard Crimson story attacking his performance, exploited unhappiness about Weinstein to accomplish a long-hoped-for removal.

    Either way, Harvard administrators were warned about the unavoidable conflict between upholding an important civic norm––that legal representation for even the most reviled is a service to the community, not a transgression against it—and giving in to the demands of the undergraduates most aggrieved by their faculty dean’s choice of clients. And rather than infer a responsibility of the extremely privileged to uphold civic norms for the benefit of those in society who most need them, this institution, which purports to educate future leaders, chose to prioritize transient discomfort felt by its most aggrieved students.
    He thinks it was the wrong call.

    But protecting the norms around the right to counsel is orders of magnitude more important than the “unenlightened or misplaced” discomfort of some Harvard undergraduates––discomfort rooted in difficulty tolerating moral difference, not in having to report sexual assault to Sullivan, as some have erroneously suggested. In fact, Sullivan long ago appointed Linda D. M. Chavers, a resident dean, to serve as his house’s “point person” for sexual-assault issues. (Moreover, Harvard employs dozens of people to whom any student in need could report sexual misconduct.)

    People outside Harvard, including up-and-coming defense lawyers and those inclined to attack them, received this message: “Harvard professor out as dean amid backlash for representing Harvey Weinstein.” (That’s from a USA Today article, but other prominent news sources ran similar headlines.) As I previously warned, Harvard’s decision may deter ambitious young lawyers from undertaking the defense of any potentially controversial client, including indigent men who stand accused of rape or sexual assault. That raises the odds of wrongful convictions, especially among the poor. Harvard grads are relatively unlikely to be affected.
    Randall Kennedy, a fellow Harvard Law professor, defends his colleague, while describing the context.

    Mr. Sullivan is my friend and colleague. He is the director of the Criminal Justice Institute at Harvard Law School and the architect of a conviction-review program in Brooklyn that has freed a score of improperly convicted individuals. He is also a sought-after lawyer who has represented plaintiffs (including the family of Michael Brown, whose death at the hands of a police officer fueled the Black Lives Matter movement) as well as defendants (including Rose McGowan, the actress who faced drug charges and is, ironically, one of Mr. Weinstein’s accusers).

    In addition to his work as a professor and a lawyer, Mr. Sullivan, with his wife, Stephanie Robinson, has served for a decade as the faculty dean of Winthrop House, an undergraduate dormitory where some 400 students live.

    As a faculty dean, Mr. Sullivan is responsible for creating a safe, fun, supportive environment in which students can pursue their collegiate ambitions. Winthrop House is meant to be a home away from home; faculty deans are in loco parentis. Mr. Sullivan and Ms. Robinson are expected to attend to the students as counselors, cheerleaders, impresarios and guardians.

    Enraged by Mr. Sullivan’s work on behalf of Mr. Weinstein, a cadre of students at Winthrop, and in other parts of the university as well, demanded the lawyer’s ouster, asserting that his choice of client undermined their confidence in his ability to be properly attuned to their thoughts and feelings. Some said that Mr. Sullivan’s choice was nothing less than “trauma-inducing.”

    From the outset of the dispute, which began in January when Mr. Sullivan joined Mr. Weinstein’s team of lawyers (he has recently withdrawn from active participation), Harvard authorities have evinced sympathy with the position voiced by the student dissidents. “I take seriously the concerns that have been raised from members of the College community regarding the impact of Professor Sullivan’s choice to serve as counsel for Harvey Weinstein on the House community that he is responsible for leading as a faculty dean,” the dean of Harvard College, Rakesh Khurana, remarked in an email to students in February.

    A few weeks later, after protests that included vandalism (spray-painted graffiti on university buildings included the slogans “Our rage is self-defense” and “Whose side are you on?”), Dean Khurana initiated a review of “the climate” at Winthrop House, including asking students in a questionnaire whether they found the dormitory “sexist” or “non-sexist.” Some onlookers saw the move as a predetermined predicate for wrangling Mr. Sullivan’s resignation or dismissal.
    My dad's a lawyer (who primarily worked for New York City's Administration for Children's Services) and thinks that Harvard is clearly in the wrong for even entertaining the idea that there should be any consequences to a lawyer for agreeing to defend a particular client, let alone for bowing to pressure. I'm sure there's a counterpoint, but it's not articulated effectively enough. Is the principle that everyone is entitled to a defense important or it is problematic for a rich scumbag to get a prestigious lawyer?

  14. #1604
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuck View Post
    Huh?

    Capital murder is a thing that some jurisdictions have decided warrants the loss of the right to life through due process, the same as it would take away the right to liberty or property in other less severe criminal cases.

    If one sincerely believes there is no moral difference between an unborn child and one that has already been born, it's still philosophically consistent, because that child has done nothing. If it were to grow up and commit capital murder, however, it would then be subject to possible execution.

    I've never understood not seeing the difference. (I mean, I also don't understand people who invoke their Catholic faith in a pro-life argument, but then also support the death penalty, which the Church is against.)
    First, take a moment to seriously ask yourself if an innocent human being has ever been executed in the United States. Let's set aside instances where people were actually set up by the state.

    If you are willing to be straight with yourself about the actual answer to that question, there is no difference.

  15. #1605
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ohnooze View Post
    You did not push any view on me. My point is that it's not a Christian problem it's a people problem. As for your hang up with faith...well that's just how it comes across. Seems like you're harboring some resentment.
    Wrong.

    If you are trying to dictate when life starts, you are absolutely coming from a Christian perspective.

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