All Purpose News and Politics Thread Part IV: The Center Cannot Hold

[aja_christopher]

As I noted before, Democrats presiding over decreased illegal immigration was largely due to improving economic circumstances in those countries.

No, Mets -- what you noted before is that is that it's more important to look at "what they actually do". That logic should apply to both political "commentators" and political "parties", but you want to have it both ways in this discussion, which (again) is completely hypocritical.

Now you're changing your story and trying to accuse me of "evading" things when I just posted a video of Sanders refuting the "open border" policy when directly asked, and I likewise pointed out that it's the Republicans who are behaving both immorally and unethically and not the Democrats -- including with regards to Garland -- because all Republicans know how to do these days is "gaslight, obstruct, and project".

Which you further prove with each post where you try to pretend I didn't directly address both your "questions" while likewise "evading" the fact that you aren't judging both parties by "what they actually do", which you earlier claimed (while defending Shapiro) is "more important". You can't drop the "open borders" talking point because that's all you have: Republicans can't defend their party's actions, so instead they hypocritically point fingers at others (immigration, deficits, etc) in an effort to mask their own immorality, lies, and outright criminal behavior.

That said -- there is nothing "vague" about Democratic responses when directly asked about open borders and there is likewise nothing "vague" about the fact that the Republican party is the party that lacks political integrity, not the Democrats, and trying to claim that "both sides are the same" -- whether on the issue of Garland or any other political matter -- is absolute nonsense.

Even more hypocritically, where I directly addressed both your questions (showing proof that prominent Democrats are against "open borders" and clearly stating that Democrats would not "behave the same as Republicans" because they have more integrity as a party), you keep "evading" the fact that your party supports separating families at the border as a "deterrent" and is now protecting a criminal "president" which makes them an accessory to said criminality.

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"Rep. Jefferson Van Drew (D-N.J.) said on Wednesday that the U.S. is “not a nation of open borders” but rather a “nation of the rule of law,” pushing back on claims from President Trump and other Republicans that Democrats are the "party of open borders."

“We are not a nation of open borders,” Van Drew told Hill.TV during an interview on "Rising."

“I believe that we are a nation of the rule of law,” he added. “While I am very pro-immigration, it has to be done in an intelligent and thoughtful way.”

Van Drew said that he believes that the U.S. needs to have “safe, intact borders,” which includes an “actual physical border.” He said this might mean adding additional vertical metal struts and fencing along certain parts of the U.S.-Mexico border.

The New Jersey Democrat also called for additional resources and technology.

“I believe we do need to have good, safe intact borders — that includes [an] actual physical border,” the lawmaker said. “It includes technology, it includes more beds, it includes more manpower, it ensures that our nation is safe whether it is from drugs, whether it is from individuals.”

https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/43...e-are-a-nation

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"Sen. Bernie Sanders pushed back Sunday against claims that he supports an open border policy, adding that poverty across the globe would cause an influx of migrants to the border if that system were in place.

During a town hall in Oskaloosa, Iowa, Sanders was asked by an attendee about how the United States can afford to fund social services such as health care, with an open borders policy.

The attendee also claimed the Vermont senator is "an advocate for open borders."

“I’m afraid you may be getting your information wrong. That’s not my view,” Sanders said.

"What we need is comprehensive immigration reform,” he continued. "If you open the borders, my God, there's a lot of poverty in this world, and you're going to have people from all over the world. And I don't think that's something that we can do at this point. Can't do it. So that is not my position.”

https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/43...e-are-a-nation

[aja_christopher]

It's only bad politics because of all the uneducated voters who somehow have fully formed opinions on immigration policy despite never having met an immigrant in their lives. The Democrats might win a few swing voters by appeasing them on this issue, but in the long term it is hurting them because they aren't taking a strong stance on the issue and are leaving a potentially powerful voting bloc in the cold, namely all of the recent immigrants and their relatives who want some politicians to stand up for us for once, instead of making yet another appeal to the shrinking base of rural whites who will abandon them for a right wing demagogue the first chance they get.

The "limiting principle" argument is just another in a long line of (subtly racist) Republican policies that hurt the economy and lead to recessions.

It would be one thing if Republicans supported making the education of "high skilled workers" -- or education in general -- more affordable here in America, but that's a Democratic platform, not a Republican one.

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"Curbing legal immigration hurts the economy"

"During the 2016 Presidential campaign, then-candidate Trump frequently repeated a promise to achieve four percent GDP growth. This is an ambitious goal, so one would expect the Trump administration to increase its odds of success by implementing economic policies universally designed to stoke GDP. While many of the president’s stances on the regulatory regime facing business can be seen as promoting economic gains, his stance on legal immigration could both inhibit short-term growth and jeopardize America’s status as an innovation hub in the long term.

A recent PricewaterhouseCoopers study found that 77 percent of CEOs say their growth is threatened by a lack of availability of key skills. That response aligns with other research, including an Adecco prediction that we will be short 2.4 million STEM workers by next year and a WSJ finding that employers are spending more time training workers than they were a year ago.

With talent gaps this significant, the obvious solution is to tap into existing pools of trained, skilled workers, in other words, to bring foreign workers to U.S. companies. Indeed, foreign workers already hold one in five STEM jobs in the United States.

But Trump administration policies seek to limit legal immigration from several countries and make it more difficult to secure H-1B visas (those for high-skilled employees) across the board. These actions have already proven detrimental: 21 percent of U.S. companies are relocating work overseas because of difficult immigration laws at home.

If the goal is to grow the economy, why make it harder for American companies to secure labor?

The benefits of facilitating immigration, however, go beyond filling roles at existing U.S. companies. Throughout our nation’s history, immigrants have been a powerful economic force in part because of the businesses they establish. Today, immigrant-founded companies account for 18 percent of those in the Fortune 500; these businesses alone generate $1.7 trillion in annual revenue and employment for more than 3.6 million people worldwide.

In the United States overall, one in 10 workers is employed by an immigrant-owned business."

https://thehill.com/opinion/immigrat...ts-the-economy

[PwrdOn]

The "limiting principle" argument is just another in a long line of (subtly racist) Republican policies that hurt the economy and lead to recessions.

It would be one thing if Republicans supported making the education of "high skilled workers" -- or education in general -- more affordable here in America, but that's a Democratic platform, not a Republican one.

But the Democrats aren't taking a strong stance in favor of increasing immigration, because they are too afraid of the political backlash, but this is a losing strategy since they really should be courting immigrant voters instead of treating them as a captive audience. In fact, the next Democrat who starts talking about border security should absolutely get the **** slapped out of them, the border is pretty much as secure as it will ever be and militarizing it further will just make things worse rather than better. I mean, anyone who really cared about controlling crime along the border might want to look into making it a tad more difficult for the gangs to get their hands on American made weapons.

[Tendrin]

Moreover, if Republicans really cared about revitalizing all those small town Americas that they claim to care about, they'd create incentives for immigrants to move there in an effort to reinvigorate their communities and economies.

They don't, of course.

[Tami]

Moreover, if Republicans really cared about revitalizing all those small town Americas that they claim to care about, they'd create incentives for immigrants to move there in an effort to reinvigorate their communities and economies.

They don't, of course.

It's pretty obvious why. Small town America, to these Republicans, is small town White Consrvative America.

Once you start moving immigrants in, to them, it's like transforming "Leave it to Beaver" into "Good Times". It's like, this patient needs a blood transfusion, but only blood from WASPS will do. Let the patient die if we don't have the right kind of blood.

[SquirrelMan]

Yep. Yep, they are. He hates the right people.

I guess it is just hard for some people to accept that a guy they really, really like inspires nazis.

[aja_christopher]

I guess it is just hard for some people to accept that a guy they really, really like inspires nazis.

Only if they are arguing in good faith -- if they were that concerned about the truth then they wouldn't support a party that openly supports a pathological liar.

[PwrdOn]

It's pretty obvious why. Small town America, to these Republicans, is small town White Consrvative America.

Once you start moving immigrants in, to them, it's like transforming "Leave it to Beaver" into "Good Times". It's like, this patient needs a blood transfusion, but only blood from WASPS will do. Let the patient die if we don't have the right kind of blood.

Let's not forget that "small town America" only existed in the first place because white people couldn't stand all those damned dirty minorities and immigrants crowding into the major cities and decided to pack up and move away. Of course, it wasn't terribly surprising that most of these isolated communities full of expensive yet unskilled workers proved to be economically inviable within a few generations.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

It's pretty obvious why. Small town America, to these Republicans, is small town White Consrvative America.

Once you start moving immigrants in, to them, it's like transforming "Leave it to Beaver" into "Good Times". It's like, this patient needs a blood transfusion, but only blood from WASPS will do. Let the patient die if we don't have the right kind of blood.

BINGO!! You hit the nail dead on the head! This is all about preserving white conservatism while keeping minorities out at any cost, even if it means a slow and painful death of communities throughout small town America. The notion of assimilating cultures of other races into that dynamic is flat out abhorrent to right wingers, they'd literally rather die than have that happen. And, chances are they probably will.

[PwrdOn]

BINGO!! You hit the nail dead on the head! This is all about preserving white conservatism while keeping minorities out at any cost, even if it means a slow and painful death of communities throughout small town America. The notion of assimilating cultures of other races into that dynamic is flat out abhorrent to right wingers, they'd literally rather die than have that happen. And, chances are they probably will.

Frankly, the notion of being assimilated by white America should be abhorrent to any right thinking person, though there are a baffling number of people all too willing to forsake their heritage for sweater vests, smooth jazz, and Cheesecake Factories.

[Michael Watkins]

eh. i'll wear a sweater vest to work occassionally. but i draw the line at smooth jazz. and i'm lactose intolerant.

[InformationGeek]

Alright, another rambling, on the lawn question fest with Trump. Take your pick for what was the dumbest moment.

Trump calls members of Robert Mueller's team "some of the worst human beings on Earth."

Trump flatly denies a tweet he posted just an hour earlier, now claims "Russia did not help me get elected."

Trump reveals he has absolutely no clue how impeachment works, says, "I can't imagine the courts allowing it." (The courts have nothing to do with impeachment, which is the domain of Congress.)

Asked about report that Navy was asked to move a ship named after John McCain during his recent trip to Japan, Trump denies involvement, but goes on to trash John McCain

For the second time in a matter of minutes, Trump trashes John McCain

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Frankly, the notion of being assimilated by white America should be abhorrent to any right thinking person, though there are a baffling number of people all too willing to forsake their heritage for sweater vests, smooth jazz, and Cheesecake Factories.

I've never been a fan of sweater vests, and cheesecake is too rich for my unsophisticated palate. As for smooth jazz, I listen to it from time to time.

Alright, another rambling, on the lawn question fest with Trump. Take your pick for what was the dumbest moment.

People used to think Hillary Clinton was living rent free in Trump's noggin, but it's evident McCain kicked her to the curb and is now slumming there.

[Malvolio]

Let's not forget that "small town America" only existed in the first place because white people couldn't stand all those damned dirty minorities and immigrants crowding into the major cities and decided to pack up and move away. Of course, it wasn't terribly surprising that most of these isolated communities full of expensive yet unskilled workers proved to be economically inviable within a few generations.

But they'll always tell you that they didn't move because of the non-whites moving in, but because they were afraid that their property values would go down. Yeah, right.

[SquirrelMan]

Trump is 66 points ahead of Weld in a Republican primary poll.

They love their guy.