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  1. #2341
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    Quote Originally Posted by WestPhillyPunisher View Post
    The really scary, not to mention utterly predictable thing is....Trump WOULD like it. He has no moral center whatsoever and would prostitute Melania in a New York minute if it put some extra coin in his pocket.
    He’d probably thank them if it was Ivanka

  2. #2342
    Incredible Member TheDarman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    Leaked internal ICE documents cite that the deaths in their custody were preventable.

    https://twitter.com/kenklippenstein/...617851394?s=21

    What will the apologists do now? Go back to not giving a damn, I suppose.
    To them it's all about "personal responsibility". If you come here, if you assume that risk, no matter how bad it is where you came from, it is on you. That's a disgusting and immoral sentiment. What's even worse is that some people say that this will teach these people not to come here. They say it will yield the appropriate disincentives to prevent them from making a dangerous journey. How horrific is that statement? For people that are moderates that are wondering: this is why compromise is difficult to procure. You can't negotiate social policy with moral monsters like these.
    With Great Power, Comes Great Responsibility

    Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

  3. #2343
    Extraordinary Member PaulBullion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarman View Post
    To them it's all about "personal responsibility". If you come here, if you assume that risk, no matter how bad it is where you came from, it is on you. That's a disgusting and immoral sentiment. What's even worse is that some people say that this will teach these people not to come here. They say it will yield the appropriate disincentives to prevent them from making a dangerous journey. How horrific is that statement? For people that are moderates that are wondering: this is why compromise is difficult to procure. You can't negotiate social policy with moral monsters like these.
    Basically, those fascists are hanging people by their own bootstraps.
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  4. #2344
    Incredible Member TheDarman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulBullion View Post
    Basically, those fascists are hanging people by their own bootstraps.
    Naturally, I expect nothing more from them.
    With Great Power, Comes Great Responsibility

    Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

  5. #2345

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    I'll post this for those who insist that the GOP isn't becoming a White Nationalist Party:

    Thomas Hofeller was a GOP gerrymandering specialist who insisted that the Trump administration include 2020 Census had a question on it regarding citizenship. He died recently, and his daughter went through his old things only to discover internal communications where he literally boasted that his proposals would be “would be advantageous to Republicans and non-Hispanic whites,” and work to the disadvantage of Democrats.
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  6. #2346
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    If Caramel Caligula thought Boris Johnson was gonna be his UK bestie, he’s in for a rude awakening:

    https://twitter.com/bydonkeys/status...683272192?s=21
    Avatar: Here's to the late, great Steve Dillon. Best. Punisher. Artist. EVER!

  7. #2347

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    Leaked internal ICE documents cite that the deaths in their custody were preventable.

    https://twitter.com/kenklippenstein/...617851394?s=21

    What will the apologists do now? Go back to not giving a damn, I suppose.
    This is an interesting piece from the Young Turks.

    https://tyt.com/stories/4vZLCHuQrYE4...KvQKNCv2E9bu7h

    It's about a psychotic man's suicide, a death of one man as a result of a reaction to antipsychotic drugs, and failures to provide detox to people with substance abuse disorders, which are all troublesome, but not applicable to the deaths of children.


    Quote Originally Posted by PaulBullion View Post
    What a tragic coincidence that not a single child died in US custody in the decade before Trump took power. And now we have enough for a heavenly volleyball team.
    It's not a coincidence. More kids are coming over than before.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-28203923

    https://www.motherjones.com/politics...der-in-charts/

    The Obama administration had a different policy of releasing them into the US. I'm unaware of any statistics on their well-being when they're outside of ICE.

  8. #2348

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarman View Post
    I'm dubious about this prospect as well. After all, a lot of our Visas are targeted at getting "high skilled" immigrants to come into the country. So, just as much as the focus is on getting "low skilled" immigrants into the country for really difficult agricultural work (and these industries are begging for more immigrants to do this work), we see that our country also appreciates fleshing out "high skilled" work.

    Undocumented immigration allows for certain labor violations. But the answer is to move towards a system of both yielding disincentives to immigrating illegally (nationwide eVerify) and creating a pathway to citizenship for those already here and better streamlining our legal immigration system to allow more immigrants into the country legally.



    Support for both the present level of immigration and increasing it more than doubles the support for those who want to decrease it. We could break down what is understood to be "present level", but it stands to reason that these people would likely take a trade-off of higher legal immigration levels if it means stymying undocumented immigration. And, let's face it, those who want decreases in immigration are more likely to support Donald Trump than they are any Democrat. I think that the push would probably only have backlash, really, from those who would already be upset by the policy proposals of a Democratic President who replaced their favorite one.



    On the flip side, there are a lot of things that are in place in our social infrastructure that require a lot of immigrants. As with most developed countries, our replacement level fertility has slowed down--especially among native born Americans. Social Security's viability has suffered because of a lot of things but those structural changes have been another driving factor in people saying that Social Security is going bankrupt. A good half of our overall economic growth is from population growth in the past. Now, we are at a place in our economy where every year-over-year GDP increase has to come from pure productivity gains. That's why we haven't been able to get above 3% annual growth for a while--and why it is unlikely to happen again. Our infrastructure is faltering because of sociopolitical forces domestically driving down fertility rates. We can either try to address those multi-variate sociopolitical factors to drive up the fertility rates (which, frankly, isn't going to be through laissez-faire policy that allows for wage stagnation, university costs to skyrocket out of reach for a lot of people, or allows for continued cost increases in child care) or we can take the easier route: increasing immigration.



    The truth is that people who are scared of political change probably are right to be fearful of immigration. But they should also be scared of younger people who have a higher propensity to criticize capitalism and question whether or not socialism would be a better system. They should be concerned about the way that minority populations are growing faster to overtake, independent of immigration, of the majority population today. They should be concerned that, by millennial vote alone, Clinton won 49 out of 50 states in the United States. The only thing that doesn't change in our country is change. There will always be changing demographics, changing preferences, changing culture, and changing policy. Of course, your presumption is that 50,000,000 new immigrants would be eligible to vote immediately (they wouldn't be), that their opinions wouldn't be influenced by their environment in the United States while waiting to gain full citizenship status (which is unlikely), and that those immigrants would vote at 100% rates (which is highly unlikely, especially if they end up taking those lower paying jobs--as, statistically, we've seen people in these positions vote at much lower rates). Realistically, it could have an impact. But it would be in the long-term, not short-term, and it would be something that is probably going to either act, hopefully for conservatives and to the detriment of liberals, as a deterrent to continued liberalization of our politics or will only continue us down the path of liberalization of our politics. Either way, I'm dubious about the prospect of the idea that these people are going to change our political culture in a completely different way. Indeed, many people with authoritarian tendencies, tended towards Donald Trump in the previous election cycle. And, as we know, many of these people were native born Americans. I don't see many people fleeing from persecution being more damaging to democracy than voting for a candidate that praises dictators and ostracizes our allies, to the point where even the European Union has deemed us an adversary.



    But it will also be a way to increase revenue. Not only will it continue to increase GDP (as I've stated, population increases are correlated, positively, with economic growth), but it gives us more tax payers that pay into these social systems. Indeed, we should be raising Visa limits for both "high skilled" and "low skilled" workers which will provide that kind of economic balance between the two kinds of immigrants. In short, I doubt that this is going to be so detrimental that we ought to be allowing people to die south of our border.



    Ehh, I think that we probably won't see impeachment until support for it approaches closer to 50 percent. That might be a consequence of these other investigations that they are pursuing. If they can drive up the support for impeachment to start, the idea is that it will only continue upwards with further impeachment hearing. I think the idea of these other investigations is to see if there is a there there. That way, they can determine if there might be more information they can collect through impeachment proceedings. Then, and only then, can Democrats make a case to an American public that wanted to impeach their president that they tried and the Republican Senate took a partisan tack. That can be damaging. Heck, even with Bill Clinton, with the support for impeachment much lower, still hurt the Democrats in the next general election.

    I don't see the Democratic base willing to punish Democrats, other in the primaries, with electing Republicans, who wouldn't have done anything in the face of this mounting evidence. I think that looking at the base for queues is probably not too terribly important. Indeed, I think that they will be even more fired up to get Donald Trump out of office in 2020 than they would be to get Mike Pence out. The idea is that not doing impeachment might have the same political effect as pursuing it as it continues to tie the Republican Party to Donald Trump and he remains perpetually unpopular.
    As a complicating factor, the US probably doesn't focus enough on skills-based immigration. A big chunk of current legal immigration is family reunification/ chain migration. I'd advocate changing the legal limits so the family reunification numbers stay the same (or increase very slightly along with the US population) and the skills-based Visa numbers increase by a few hundred thousand a year (for context, the current number of legal immigrants coming to the US is a bit north of 1,000,000 an year.)

    An issue with a pathway to citizenship is that it can create incentives for new people to come in illegally, since they'll expect the same treatment.

    As for the numbered points...

    1. There is no majority advocating for decreasing or increasing immigration levels, due to the percentage of the population that likes the current levels. So it remains factually true that a majority is against any increase of any kind.

    There's also a distinction between some kind of increase, and what PwrdOn was advocating. There could probably be some realistic deal that allows for smaller increases, but even with that, there is the potential for a backlash.

    2. I do want to be clear that I'm responding to his point about pretty much unlimited immigration, rather than a doubling of our current numbers. So with what you seem to want, the infrastructure needs won't be as urgent.

    3. The 50,000,000 new immigrants to vote at 100% rates to have a major impact, especially since they won't be randomly distributed. They presumably won't immediately get to vote, but it'll happen soon enough.

    I wouldn't assume they'll all immediately be on board the standard Democratic agenda. They might want things that are weird and unpredictable.

    4. This assumes all the immigrants will be able to find work. This is likelier under your system of increasing the number of Visas by a manageable number with an emphasis on skill-based immigration rather than PwrdOn's stated preference of letting almost anyone in.

    As for impeachments, it gets messy since support for it will be higher with the base than with the voters in general. The main punishment for the base is the prospect of losing primaries, and that remains a concern.

  9. #2349
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    I wouldn't assume they'll all immediately be on board the standard Democratic agenda. They might want things that are weird and unpredictable.
    So you think that immigrants will vote in weird and unpredictable ways, but you're somehow okay with the fact that half of America supports a guy that bankrupted six casinos and wants to bang his own daughter? If anything, an injection of fresh perspectives and viewpoints is exactly what this country needs. White Americans think that because they are always portrayed as the default ethnicity in media that their beliefs and lifestyles are somehow normal, but on a global level it is pretty obvious that they are the aberration, even if you restrict the focus only to developed countries. If the right's dream of a million blonde Norwegian newcomers did come true, it wouldn't exactly be an easy task integrating them because the culture and value system in Norway is totally different from that of the US regardless of what the white nationalists want to believe, and wealthy Europeans would be far less likely to discard their own beliefs and priorities to adopt American ones than impoverished third world migrants are.

  10. #2350

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    Trump transition team member George Nader just got arrested on child pornography charges. His second offense. These latest charges were discovered while he was cooperating with the Mueller investigation, and it seems that there's some s*** that the FBI will not let go of just because you're helping explain how much of a criminal Trump is.

    But, Trump only hires the best people, remember.
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  11. #2351
    Guardian Empress of Earth Tami's Avatar
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    A ‘Bridge’ to China, and Her Family’s Business, in the Trump Cabinet

    Elaine Chao has boosted the profile of her family’s shipping company, which benefits from industrial policies in China that are roiling the Trump administration.

    The email arrived in Washington before dawn. An official at the American Embassy in Beijing was urgently seeking advice from the State Department about an “ethics question.”

    “I am writing you because Mission China is in the midst of preparing for a visit from Department of Transportation Secretary Elaine Chao,” the official wrote in October 2017.

    Ms. Chao’s office had made a series of unorthodox requests related to her first scheduled visit to China as a Trump cabinet member, according to people with knowledge of the email. Among them: asking federal officials to help coordinate travel arrangements for at least one family member and include relatives in meetings with government officials.
    In China, the Chaos are no ordinary family. They run an American shipping company with deep ties to the economic and political elite in China, where most of the company’s business is centered. The trip was abruptly canceled by Ms. Chao after the ethics question was referred to officials in the State and Transportation Departments and, separately, after The New York Times and others made inquiries about her itinerary and companions.
    2017 State Department Emails Related to Planned Trip by Transportation Secretary Chao to China

    Here is a collection of correspondence released by the State Department--in three tranches--to The New York Times in response to a Freedom of Information lawsuit seeking copies of all emails related to a planned trip by Transportation Secretary Elaine Chao to China in Oct. 2017. Many of these emails have been blacked out to prevent a full understand of the issues the State Department raised. But interviews by The Times further clarified the ethics concerns State officials had about the trip.
    BTW Did you notice how, when you add an 's' to the last name Chao it becomes the word Chaos?
    Last edited by Tami; 06-03-2019 at 04:48 PM.
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  13. #2353
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    Reading the excerpts and the clips from the Axios Kushner interview good lord what a disaster.

    He can't answer if Birtherism was racist because "“Um, look, I wasn’t really involved in that”?"
    It is or it is not Kush, not that hard.

    The Palestine questions and answers wtf? How is he going to bring peace to the Middle east saying he doesn't know if the Palestinians can govern themselves at all?

  14. #2354
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InformationGeek View Post
    HA! Outrageous! The best way to hurt Trump is to ignore him, and this was a BIG time diss.
    Avatar: Here's to the late, great Steve Dillon. Best. Punisher. Artist. EVER!

  15. #2355
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tami View Post
    A ‘Bridge’ to China, and Her Family’s Business, in the Trump Cabinet

    Elaine Chao has boosted the profile of her family’s shipping company, which benefits from industrial policies in China that are roiling the Trump administration.
    As if anyone needs any further proof that this whole trade war was just a sham all along. Trump and his cronies get to act tough and stir up their base with nationalism and xenophobia, the Chinese government does the same, corporations cry bloody murder and plead for handouts, and consumers foot the bill.

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