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  1. #4231
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE View Post
    You won’t be popular on here with that take. It confuses many of the regulars that anyone who isn’t Republican doesn’t view it as an all or nothing team sport game where Democrats must win at all costs
    No -- some of us just point out the facts.

    I don't care about Democrats or Republicans as a party, but I do know which one is a direct threat to both our individual rights and our democracy as a whole.

    Just because you don't see it that way due to your preference for specific "democratic" candidates doesn't make the division between the parties any less real.

    This isn't about party politics -- this is about an assault on our electoral process (via foreign interference) and people of color (civil rights and detention camps).

    -----
    "Republican Voter Suppression Efforts Are Targeting Minorities"

    "Since the 2010 elections, 24 states have implemented new restrictions on voting. Alabama now requires a photo ID to cast a ballot. Other states such as Ohio and Georgia have enacted "use it or lose it" laws, which strike voters from registration rolls if they have not participated in an election within a prescribed period of time.

    Mother Jones journalist Ari Berman, author of Give Us the Ballot, says that many of the restrictions are part of a broader Republican strategy to tighten access to the ballot — an effort that was bolstered in 2013 by the Supreme Court's Shelby County v. Holder ruling.

    "[That] decision," Berman explains, "said that those states with the longest histories of discrimination no longer had to approve their voting changes with the federal government."

    "As a result", Berman says, "You're seeing a national effort by the Republican Party to try to restrict voting rights, and it's playing out in states all across the country..."

    It was reported by the Associated Press that [gubernatorial candidate] Brian Kemp's office (the secretary of state's office) in Georgia was blocking 53,000 voter registrations in that state — 70 percent from African-Americans, 80 percent from people of color."

    https://www.npr.org/2018/10/23/65978...ournalist-says
    Last edited by aja_christopher; 07-11-2019 at 09:01 AM.

  2. #4232
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wakeneuron View Post
    How can you deny that the Democrats have not destroyed some of our communities like Chicago and omg Detroit.
    Elaborate.

  3. #4233
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    Oh oh, the old Rham destroyed Chicago trope.

  4. #4234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wakeneuron View Post
    I'm Black also. How can you deny that the Democrats have not destroyed some of our communities like Chicago and omg Detroit. Do a simple search of Detroit's poor areas and you will see how terrible these people live. Of course there are some African Americans that are living good in urban areas but we cannot leave behind or ignore the ones that are suffering.

    I think that Whitee along with other races and even ourselves are holding the Black community back. There are still large pockets of the economy where Black people do not participate. We are still segregated in certain parts of the country. Compared to the hispanic community there are some states and cities in the United States that black people just do not go because the Black communitu knows not to go there. Oprah went on a RV/camping trip a few years back and even she question if Blacks could go to certain places. So in some ways the Black community is under a type of social movement slavery compared to hispanics and other races but I partially blame the black community also because we are not demanding our social and political rights like we use to. If they give us our long overdue reparations a right to free movement inside the US should be demanded.
    Because Governor Snyder was so good to Flint and Detroit. The GOP is actively trying to take back Rights won in the 60s and 70s and have done so in areas like Voting Rights, they refuse to even address Police abuse toward Black Citizens and their Party leader is openly a White Supremacist. But you want to support them over the Democrats. go figure.
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  5. #4235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wakeneuron View Post
    I'm Black also. How can you deny that the Democrats have not destroyed some of our communities like Chicago and omg Detroit. Do a simple search of Detroit's poor areas and you will see how terrible these people live. Of course there are some African Americans that are living good in urban areas but we cannot leave behind or ignore the ones that are suffering.
    As someone who's black and lived in the metro detroit area most of his life, blaming the city's issues solely on democrats is lazy and a touch ignorant. It ignores the city's over reliance on the auto industry and lack of diversification of businesses, the systematic racism/segregation that promoted white flight and de-investment in the city over the course of decades. It also ignores the state republican leadership promoting private education and defunding of public schools (After all Betsy Devos came from this state sadly).

    That's not to say Democrats are blameless, Kwame Kilpatrick was a corrupt, criminal, disgrace, but saying "Democrats destroyed Detroit" is to ignore history.

    edit: Didn't even get into the utter catastrophe of Flint. Handled by a Republican appointed city manager, a republican state legislature, and Republican Governor.
    Last edited by Kusanagi; 07-11-2019 at 09:23 AM.
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  6. #4236
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    What part of the Republican Party today does not support racist, bigoted, anti-science, corrupt policies? If they support Trump, which they do, they support this. The decisiveness is Trump and his agenda, not pointing it out.
    If you look at each of those items you just listed off, each one can be broken down into many branching sub-arguments to the point where the very definition of those terms has changed over the years and is up for debate.

    For example- "racism." My definition of racism would be hating/being against an entire race based strictly on no other criteria other than that race itself. To me, anybody that is a true racist, probably doesn't have the highest IQ. Right now there are a great many people on both sides being labeled as racist, that really aren't. More pointedly, they have criticisms citing traits generally found with one race or the other and are being labeled as racists for that. All that does is force an "us" vs. "them" mentality- a black and white landscape where in reality, there is a lot of gray area that isn't allowed to be explored.

    "Diversity," is another good one. "Diversity," in its simplest definition, means "variety." Yet today, diversity is more used as meaning, "not white." With that, "too much white, is bad." Further, since the application of "diversity" in this way never gets attached to any other race (nobody ever looks at an all-black basketball team and exclaims, "Hey! They aren't diverse!"). It is very close to saying "white = bad." I hope you can see how without care, the average white person might have a reason to raise an eyebrow at this. When coupled with all of the rest of anti-white rhetoric out there, you can see how even the average Joe White, keeping his head down, going to work, paying his taxes, trying to raise a family (maybe even subscribing to traditional family values) would naturally grow weary of this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    Where do you land on the political spectrum? (if you feel like answering)
    I'll get to that eventually, when I have more time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    The GOP policies and Agenda, as personified by their leader is racist, bigoted and White Supremacist. What is the difference between being a racist and supporting one?
    That's a whole lot of generalizations there, friend.

    Let's put some ideas on the table. First, many of those generalizations and labels have been attached to Trump by a large portion of the mainstream media, who by and large act within there own self-interests and have done so since before he was elected. So, keep in mind that the rhetoric commonly proclaimed out there, over and over again has had an effect of ingraining that perception, whether it is 80% true or 20% true. It's easy to label someone in such a way. It's harder to scrape away all the narrative and find the real evidence to support those claims- which I hardly ever see done anymore in mainstream media (on either side). It's harder still, once the evidence is found, to fully disseminate the varying perspectives on that evidence in an attempt to root out those that actually do have ill-intent (never happens). Instead, they usually stick to the labels and stone-throwing.

    For example- Trump "the racist." This is something more and more I have seen him labeled as in the media connecting his stance on the border/immigration-trying to keep people out who happen to not be white. Is that a component of his racism? Okay. I can see how someone could see it that way. Its further exacerbated by the unfortunate reality that in order to keep the border intact, people, including children need to be contained in large cage-like structures. However, there are a great many people who believe he is doing it for no other reason than to secure the border, which keeps the nation intact and there are perfectly reasonable arguments that support that stance as well. If the country were to open up and allow anyone and everyone to not just flood into the country, but to benefit from a system they would not be helping to support (including expensive health care), in a very short time, this country would not sustain itself.

    I try to keep both sides in mind when I consider this topic. In terms of Trump, I can't say I know the man's real motivation, however, regardless of whoever the president is, I do want to see the nation kept in tact with borders. I believe a lot of good comes from the advancements this country makes (which a lot of the world eventually benefits from) which has only been afforded because of the foundational pillars of law and policy and subsequent prosperity that would not exist without borders. Also, as someone in healthcare, while obviously not perfect, I shudder at the thought of what would happen with a system of completely open borders/free healthcare to all who would come here. What I want to learn more about, is how many of the would-be immigrants are truly seeking asylum and how many are just trying to get into the country for prosperity and are unwilling to do it the legal way because it takes more effort and patience.

    I would say though, that the true test on this topic, is that to anybody who supports open borders- if you are not willing to right now, take an immigrant family into your house or, perhaps empty a savings account of a few thousand dollars to cover an immigrant's health expenses for a year (would likely be much higher), than I question that person's integrity on the topic.

  7. #4237

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonesaw View Post
    Yes, which are not encompassed with all conservatives, as you would describe. In fact, there is plenty of racism that exists from individuals who label themselves as liberals or democrats, but you will never see me describe liberals and democrats as bigots.
    I shouldn't see you do it, because you'd be lying. Their party platform is literally written about the strength of diversity, and defending the rights of all people, regardless of gender, race, ethnicity, religion, or sexual orientation.

    The Republican Party platform actively has the opposite, not just writing policies that adversely affect people of color, but these days, single out people from specific religions (Islam), and create specific laws written to affect people of sexual orientations that aren't straight for discrimination.

    This isn't an opinion. It's the hard truth.

    Again, I'll leave the quote by Julias Goat:

    If you think the comparison is unfair, I'll remind you that 60% of Republicans now support Trump's concentration camps for Central American migrants because they're "not our children".

    If I'm bigoted against anything, I'm bigoted against monsters who give a thumbs up to children not being given human rights, and I won't lose any sleep over that. Ever.
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  8. #4238
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    I always question why newbies always show up at a place they aren't welcome to debate with people that don't want to hear them. Is the internet not big enough to find a place like that without coming to one that isn't just to stir the pot?

  9. #4239
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonesaw View Post
    Yet today, diversity is more used as meaning, "not white." With that, "too much white, is bad."
    That's a very limited view of diversity, and the complaint that it means "too much white is bad" is rooted in both ignorance and fear of "white" no longer being the status quo in America.

    It also includes women, LGBT citizens, the disabled, non-Christians, and many other groups.

    Your focus on "non-white" and "black" is telling -- it's the most basic divide for many of those who are concerned about "diversity".

    Likewise regarding the same old "open borders" talking point when discussing the issue of immigration -- no one is asking for open borders, just some basic human decency towards other human beings and their children, whether American, immigrant, or otherwise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Farealmer View Post
    I always question why newbies always show up at a place they aren't welcome to debate with people that don't want to hear them. Is the internet not big enough to find a place like that without coming to one that isn't just to stir the pot?
    I've never seen where "newbies" or new ideas aren't welcome here, but if you're going to support a corrupt, bigoted, authoritarian party like the one supporting Trump, then you better be prepared to defend said position with facts, not hyperbole or fearmongering.
    Last edited by aja_christopher; 07-11-2019 at 09:44 AM.

  10. #4240
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    Quote Originally Posted by aja_christopher View Post
    That's a very limited view of diversity, and the complaint that it means "too much white is bad" is rooted in both ignorance and fear of "white" no longer being the status quo in America.

    It also includes women, LGBT citizens, the disabled, non-Christians, and many other groups.

    You're right. I was in the mode of talking about race. I should have clarified it as "racial diversity."

    Also, my issues with "diversity" in general is that some of it feels forced, via agenda by politicians and media outlets with ulterior motives. I have no issue with programs meant to help minorities in various ways. It's when the narrative becomes: "white people are the cause of all the worlds problems yada yada. we need more diversity."

    Quote Originally Posted by aja_christopher View Post
    Likewise regarding the same old "open borders" talking point when discussing the issue of immigration -- no one is asking for open borders, just some basic human decency towards other human beings and their children, whether American, immigrant, or otherwise.
    Many prominant democrats are advocating for not just open borders, but free health care for all.

    Quote Originally Posted by worstblogever View Post

    If I'm bigoted against anything, I'm bigoted against monsters who give a thumbs up to children not being given human rights, and I won't lose any sleep over that. Ever.
    How much money did you say you donated to alleviate those children at the border?

    Just curious.
    Last edited by Bonesaw; 07-11-2019 at 09:54 AM.

  11. #4241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonesaw View Post
    Also, my issues with "diversity" in general is that some of it feels forced, via agenda by politicians and media outlets with ulterior motives.

    Many prominant democrats are advocating for not just open borders, but free health care for all.
    Name these prominent democrats in that are in a position of passing real legislation with a majority of Democratic votes in Congress that are for open borders.

    Likewise, explain how diversity is being forced to any extreme when most industries of any consequence (including the NBA) are still predominately white and male owned, and are likewise the ones now catering to an increasingly "diverse" audience which often means creating an increasingly "diverse" product.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonesaw View Post
    How much money did you say you donated to alleviate those children at the border?
    I don't see where that has anything to do with defending the rights of children to receive humane treatment and the hands of our government representatives.

    If nothing else, we pay for this with our tax money, so there's the answer to a personal question that didn't need to be asked.
    Last edited by aja_christopher; 07-11-2019 at 10:05 AM.

  12. #4242

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonesaw View Post
    How much money did you say you donated to alleviate those children at the border?

    Just curious.
    An exact number that I will not reveal, because it would allow you to "set the bar" for what's acceptable for caring by naming it as "good enough" or "not enough", by your demonstrably amoral point of view.

    That number is greater than zero, because I'm not a hypocrite.

    I'm also not the person online making excuses for their political ideology currently backing concentration camps. So really, if you're looking for some moral high ground here, boy are you not getting any of it.
    Last edited by worstblogever; 07-11-2019 at 10:05 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by worstblogever View Post
    An exact number that I will not reveal, because it would allow you to "set the bar" for what's acceptable for caring by naming it as "good enough" or "not enough", by your demonstrably amoral point of view.
    That's cool. It's just that I know a lot of left-leaning people that virtue signal till their blue in the face and the minute they are asked about donating, taking in an immigrant or anything else REAL, they clam up.

    Good for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by worstblogever View Post
    I'm also not the person online making excuses for their political ideology currently backing concentration camps. So really, if you're looking for some moral high ground here, boy are you not getting any of it.
    They are not "concentration camps" as the term is most commonly associated with Nazi germany. Not even close. AOC has been called out by jews because of her ridiculous labeling. The people who use that term to describe the camps at the border...man, the credibility just plummets.
    Last edited by Bonesaw; 07-11-2019 at 10:14 AM.

  14. #4244

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    Quote Originally Posted by Farealmer View Post
    I always question why newbies always show up at a place they aren't welcome to debate with people that don't want to hear them. Is the internet not big enough to find a place like that without coming to one that isn't just to stir the pot?
    Who is not welcome here? And who should determine that?

  15. #4245

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonesaw View Post
    They are not "concentration camps" as the term is most commonly associated with Nazi germany. Not even close. AOC has been called out by jews because of her ridiculous labeling. The people who use that term to describe the camps at the border...man the credibility just plummets.
    Then you're calling the experts on the Holocaust, and people who have been held in concentration camps not credible. You're calling "Holocaust survivors not credible" on this topic."

    I'm citing the experts. You're providing your own opinion and not citing anything.

    An opinion that defends concentration camps. Where people are being held without a trial in inhuman conditions. And children are being sexually assaulted by guards.

    You're demonstrating exactly what it is to be an American "conservative" now.
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