All Purpose News and Politics Thread Part IV: The Center Cannot Hold

[Spike-X]

Without taking a side here...

If you are potentially losing some "Joe White Taxpayer"(which I would personally still chalk up to "Unproven Assertion...") votes, does it put you in a more or less likely position to be able to fight against those policies?

In Australia, at least, it seems to me that the Labor Party are losing votes because they're trying too hard to appeal to Liberal Party* voters, because they don't seem to realize that those voters already have a party to vote for.

What's the point of putting yourself up as an alternative if you're not actually going to be one?


* Actually the opposite of what it sounds like. Basically Republican-lite.

[numberthirty]

In Australia, at least, it seems to me that the Labor Party are losing votes because they're trying too hard to appeal to Liberal Party* voters, because they don't seem to realize that those voters already have a party to vote for.

What's the point of putting yourself up as an alternative if you're not actually going to be one?


* Actually the opposite of what it sounds like. Basically Republican-lite.

Agree completely.

That said, how hard will you be able to fight if you lose an election?

At the very least, it feels like it needs to be either...

- Win the Presidency.
- Hold onto the House, and pull off a pretty good pickup in the Senate.

Anything except that, and I don't know how much of a position they will be in to fight the things that have come up.

[Spike-X]

I do see your point. It's down to, 'You can't fight if you don't win' vs. 'You can't win if you won't fight'.

[numberthirty]

I do see your point. It's down to, 'You can't fight if you don't win' vs. 'You can't win if you won't fight'.

Sorta.

When it comes to Senate, I don't know that there is even a solid plan to attempt potential runs at winning some of those seats. "Fight..." feels like it is something of a non-issue there at the moment.

Never mind if gains put you in an better actual position to oppose things.

Edit: Never mind that Pelosi's most recent plays don't exactly amount to a brilliant plan for keeping the party in a position to do really well at putting up a fight or retaining seats in the House.

[worstblogever]

Yep. I've been waiting for this one. I think we got Bingo here, guys!

Here's a little something I wrote about that the other night, after giving it a bit of thought. I figured someone would give me an excuse to post it here sooner or later.

There’s been a curious response from sections of the American Right, regarding the cruel, inhumane, and downright despicable treatment of the human beings that the US government currently has locked away in concentration camps, under the guise of ‘border protection’.

“Obama did it too.”

First of all, no. Obama didn’t do it too. Obama didn’t lock children in cages for months on end, without blankets, without soap or toothbrushes, without clean drinking water. There has been much written about what Obama actually did and didn’t do, and I’m not interested in rehashing basic facts here.

What I am interested in, is asking one simple question. If we were to accept, just for a minute, that your claims are true - that under President Obama, human beings were kept in conditions worse that the roughest prison in the US; conditions that, were you to keep animals in a similar fashion, you would be prosecuted; if you were to keep your own children in these conditions, those children would be taken away from you, and you would be branded not just an unfit parent, but an unfit human being - the question that comes to mind is this...

Where were you?

You, the people who opposed everything, real or imagined (mostly the latter), President Obama said, and did, and even thought about doing? Where was your constant Obama-bashing when children were being locked up in these ghastly camps, under the most abhorrent conditions? Where were the hourly Fox News updates on conditions inside the Obama Camps?

You howled with indignation when President Obama gave a televised address to children in schools, espousing the subversive, anti-American values of *checks notes* working hard and staying in school. You lost your collective minds when the First Lady suggested that eating...what was it again? Fruits and vegetables? Might be a good idea for American children?

You protested loudly and furiously against those things, and a thousand others, but were suddenly nowhere to be heard when the President of the United States was supposedly locking babies in cages? After all the trivial, ridiculous crap you carried on with, when you weren’t just outright making stuff up to get mad about, that was the one and only thing you didn’t think was worth raising a fuss over?

Really?

Not a word? Not one poorly-spelled, single run-on sentence, grammatical nightmare of a Facebook post? Not a single newspaper or television editorial? Not a solitary fucking peep, in eight years, about Obama locking children in cages, sleeping on concrete, covered in their own ****?

Nothing? From any of you?

So, then. Given that you claim that these conditions existed under President Obama, and given the deafening silence emanating from the entirety of the American Right in response, the casual observer can only draw two possible conclusions:

1: you’re lying, or

2: you loved the idea of brown people in concentration camps even more than you hated the idea of black people in the White House.

Which is it?

Remind me to remain on the same side of the argument as Spike-X. Just... wow. Well said.

[JCAll]

They're spending $770 per captive, per night. How much do you think toothbrushes cost?

It's always about the money. The people who own the camps are stuffing their pockets with millions, and they're doing it because it was a grift from the beginning. Asking for more money is always part of the con. The solution isn't to give these swindlers more money, they'll just pocket that too before asking for more again, and it will encourage them to lock up even more children to increase their profits. The solution has to be getting the children out, closing the camps, and making sure that for profit prisons aren't a part of the immigration system going forward.

[numberthirty]

Since the Democratic Party being an actual alternative came up...

- http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/...tic-party.html

What Does Nancy Pelosi Think She’s Doing?

On Wednesday, House Oversight Committee chairman Elijah Cummings announced that Democrats would investigate Acosta’s conduct in the Epstein case. But if Pelosi truly does oppose impeachment, the investigation could find itself at a dead end. Her intransigence does encourage some unsavory speculation: that Pelosi might want to protect prominent Democrats. Before he went to jail in 2008, Epstein was friendly with powerful members of both parties, including former president Bill Clinton. But there’s no evidence that Clinton abused underage girls while in Epstein’s company, and right now, the federal case in New York against Epstein seems focused on Epstein alone. Her evident willingness to allow a wide-ranging investigation suggests she’s not afraid of what supervisorial spadework might turn up. But there’s a likelier explanation for Pelosi ruling out, even prior to an investigation, impeaching Acosta. She’s clinging to an outdated view of the world, which makes her unfit for the challenges of the moment. Pelosi is willing to confront Trump, or his officials, but only to a point. She not only believes the center will hold; she seems to think that it will, once some unspecified red line is crossed, topple Trump and his administration without any direct intervention on her part.

[Tendrin]

Remind me to remain on the same side of the argument as Spike-X. Just... wow. Well said.

Beautifully said, I agree.

[Tendrin]

https://psmag.com/social-justice/ant...-to-the-fields

rison inmates are picking fruits and vegetables at a rate not seen since Jim Crow.
Convict leasing for agriculture—a system that allows states to sell prison labor to private farms—became infamous in the late 1800s for the brutal conditions it imposed on captive, mostly black workers.
Federal and state laws prohibited convict leasing for most of the 20th century, but the once-notorious practice is making a comeback.
Under lucrative arrangements, states are increasingly leasing prisoners to private corporations to harvest food for American consumers.

Remind me where we've heard this one before?

[Jack Dracula]

Yep. I've been waiting for this one. I think we got Bingo here, guys!

Here's a little something I wrote about that the other night, after giving it a bit of thought. I figured someone would give me an excuse to post it here sooner or later.

There’s been a curious response from sections of the American Right, regarding the cruel, inhumane, and downright despicable treatment of the human beings that the US government currently has locked away in concentration camps, under the guise of ‘border protection’.

“Obama did it too.”

First of all, no. Obama didn’t do it too. Obama didn’t lock children in cages for months on end, without blankets, without soap or toothbrushes, without clean drinking water. There has been much written about what Obama actually did and didn’t do, and I’m not interested in rehashing basic facts here.

What I am interested in, is asking one simple question. If we were to accept, just for a minute, that your claims are true - that under President Obama, human beings were kept in conditions worse that the roughest prison in the US; conditions that, were you to keep animals in a similar fashion, you would be prosecuted; if you were to keep your own children in these conditions, those children would be taken away from you, and you would be branded not just an unfit parent, but an unfit human being - the question that comes to mind is this...

Where were you?

You, the people who opposed everything, real or imagined (mostly the latter), President Obama said, and did, and even thought about doing? Where was your constant Obama-bashing when children were being locked up in these ghastly camps, under the most abhorrent conditions? Where were the hourly Fox News updates on conditions inside the Obama Camps?

You howled with indignation when President Obama gave a televised address to children in schools, espousing the subversive, anti-American values of *checks notes* working hard and staying in school. You lost your collective minds when the First Lady suggested that eating...what was it again? Fruits and vegetables? Might be a good idea for American children?

You protested loudly and furiously against those things, and a thousand others, but were suddenly nowhere to be heard when the President of the United States was supposedly locking babies in cages? After all the trivial, ridiculous crap you carried on with, when you weren’t just outright making stuff up to get mad about, that was the one and only thing you didn’t think was worth raising a fuss over?

Really?

Not a word? Not one poorly-spelled, single run-on sentence, grammatical nightmare of a Facebook post? Not a single newspaper or television editorial? Not a solitary fucking peep, in eight years, about Obama locking children in cages, sleeping on concrete, covered in their own ****?

Nothing? From any of you?

So, then. Given that you claim that these conditions existed under President Obama, and given the deafening silence emanating from the entirety of the American Right in response, the casual observer can only draw two possible conclusions:

1: you’re lying, or

2: you loved the idea of brown people in concentration camps even more than you hated the idea of black people in the White House.

Which is it?

Spike is on fire today.

[Dalak]

Remind me to remain on the same side of the argument as Spike-X. Just... wow. Well said.

Beautifully said, I agree.

Spike is on fire today.

Add another Kudo to the pile.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Spike was absolutely brilliant!

====================

Tropical Storm Barry Gains Strength As Officials Urge Residents To Prepare For The Worst

The slow-moving storm could bring up to 25 inches of rain to some parts of the South, and it may become a hurricane as early as Friday.

**********

Trump’s ‘WinRed’ Donation Platform Could Funnel Millions To Ex-White House Staffer

Trump and GOP officials ignored an existing system that already has thousands of Republican candidates as clients. So, tell us again how Trump is "cleaning out the swamp"?

**********

Kirsten Gillibrand Delivers Powerful Explanation Of White Privilege

“Institutional racism is real,” the 2020 Democrat told a crowd in Ohio. “It doesn’t take away your pain or suffering. It’s just a different issue.” It's about damn time someone brought this issue to the forefront.

**********

12 More Women Come Forward With Accusations Against Jeffrey Epstein: Report

According to the Miami Herald, a dozen victims have reached out to attorneys in Florida and New York with more accusations against Epstein. And who knows how many more women Epstein abused.

**********

Fox News Host Tyrus Sent Lewd Text Messages To Colleague: ‘Pull Your Boobs Out’

Fox News split up Tyrus and his former Fox Nation co-host, Britt McHenry, after he sent her the messages. But he still works at the network. Business as usual in the sewer that's Faux News.

[TheManInBlack]

Spike is on fire today.

What the heck. Normally I wouldn't add this since it's just an un-provable assertion about my past actions, but you asked, so I'll pick up the slack and answer: I absolutely DID speak out about this under the Obama administration. The same way I spoke out against his continuations of Bush-era policies, wars, escalation of drone strikes, his unforgivable domestic surveillance programs, and persecution of whistle-blowers. During the Bush years I was consistently against the war in Iraq (really anti-war in general) and I continued to be when Obama was elected and the anti-war left went into hibernation for 8 years. I spoke out against all of those things, including the detention of children at the border, as did many others, but nobody listened. None of my formerly anti-war left friends seemed to care because Obama was being treated like a saint when in reality he was just another establishment politician.

I spoke about these things and was met with a palpable wall of willful ignorance and silence.

Now I get to read a diatribe about how people like me never spoke up, written by the type of person who never LISTENED when others WERE speaking up and it's infuriating.

I mean, you know, since you asked.

[JCAll]

What the heck. Normally I wouldn't add this since it's just an un-provable assertion about my past actions, but you asked, so I'll pick up the slack and answer: I absolutely DID speak out about this under the Obama administration. The same way I spoke out against his continuations of Bush-era policies, wars, escalation of drone strikes, his unforgivable domestic surveillance programs, and persecution of whistle-blowers. During the Bush years I was consistently against the war in Iraq (really anti-war in general) and I continued to be when Obama was elected and the anti-war left went into hibernation for 8 years. I spoke out against all of those things, including the detention of children at the border, as did many others, but nobody listened. None of my formerly anti-war left friends seemed to care because Obama was being treated like a saint when in reality he was just another establishment politician.

I spoke about these things and was met with a palpable wall of willful ignorance and silence.

Now I get to read a diatribe about how people like me never spoke up, written by the type of person who never LISTENED when others WERE speaking up and it's infuriating.

I mean, you know, since you asked.

The left doesn't think Obama was a saint, to a lot of the left Obama was a failure and a constant disappointment. From not holding the Bush administration to task for the disasters they caused, backing down on promises to close Gitmo, his damnable drones, and more. He was always a center-right Democrat.

[TheManInBlack]

The left doesn't think Obama was a saint, to a lot of the left Obama was a failure and a constant disappointment. From not holding the Bush administration to task for the disasters they caused, backing down on promises to close Gitmo, his damnable drones, and more. He was always a center-right Democrat.

There weren't an awful lot of people expressing those sentiments at the time. I got accused of being a right wing reactionary and a conspiracy theorist by dozens of left-wing folks for talking about these things at that time. It's all fine and good to say these things afterward, but there certainly wasn't much of a movement on the left to call him out back then. Dissent existed, but compared to the outrage over Bush and Trump it might as well have not existed at all. The silence was deafening.

In any case, I called him out then, and I point out the fact that it started under his watch now. Pointing out that this isn't unique to Trump or the Republicans isn't a suggestion that it's somehow okay, but it does speak to the hypocrisy of the mainstream left and the mainstream media who ignored it until Trump was president. Does calling it out solve anything? No. Which is why I didn't speak up here until reading Spike's diatribe. But what it does do is expose the hyper-partisanship of the media and the vast majority of the left wing. (and no, I'm not suggesting that the right wing is any less partisan. As someone who is regularly called everything from a commie, to a right wing troll, to a Russian bot, to a 'cuck', to an SJW, to alt-right, I'm very well aware of how partisan the majority of people have become on both sides, where they can't seem to see past their own tribes and mutually-exclusive echo chambers that increasingly dehumanize anyone and everyone that doesn't subscribe to a vast litany of political dogma.