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  1. #4246
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    Quote Originally Posted by worstblogever View Post
    I shouldn't see you do it, because you'd be lying.
    By your own logic, anybody who voted/supports Donald Trump is *insert word*-phobe, bigot ect.

    I personally know people who voted democrat and support democrats who opening hate white people- racists. If you are saying that excludes them from the party, whether they claim to be in it or not, fine. I can get behind that. You might want to tell your party leaders that they need to reinforce that idea though.

    Quote Originally Posted by worstblogever View Post
    Then you're calling the experts on the Holocaust, and people who have been held in concentration camps not credible. You're calling "Holocaust survivors not credible" on this topic."

    I'm citing the experts. You're providing your own opinion and not citing anything.

    An opinion that defends concentration camps. Where people are being held without a trial in inhuman conditions. And children are being sexually assaulted by guards.

    You're demonstrating exactly what it is to be an American "conservative" now.
    LOL written by a 25 year old "political editor" from a left-leaning esquire! Awesome source! No agenda there!


    What do you say to this one?

    https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na...628-story.html

    or this one?

    https://www.jta.org/2019/07/08/unite...ention-centers

  2. #4247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    Who is not welcome here? And who should determine that?
    History for starters since these tend to end the same way. There is a reason you are generally the last man standing on "your side" here.

  3. #4248
    Astonishing Member Darkspellmaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonesaw View Post
    You're right. I was in the mode of talking about race. I should have clarified it as "racial diversity."

    Also, my issues with "diversity" in general is that some of it feels forced, via agenda by politicians and media outlets with ulterior motives. I have no issue with programs meant to help minorities in various ways. It's when the narrative becomes: "white people are the cause of all the worlds problems yada yada. we need more diversity."
    So when you're talking Media outlets forcing diversity, are you subscribing to the idea of movies, TV shows, books, et cetera having a variety of different types of people playing roles traditionally reserved for Male leads? Or are you specifically focusing in on news media outlets and the different takes on what's going on? Trying to understand what you mean by forced because that's used a lot by people who are upset by certain changes to things. Not saying you in this case but others.

    On a side note in regard to Chicago, we're built on a grid system, this means naturally people will migrate where their communities are, ie. Italians going to where Italians have already set up shop.

    For the most part, our issues are not as large as people like to make out. This is nothing as compared to the time when the mob was running around and people were stuffed into sewers after they were killed. Not saying shit isn't bad and needs work, a lot, but compared to other cities were not as bad as the media likes to play it up.

    Not to mention if Gun manufacturers would kindly report their stolen property and other states actually pass laws that make it harder to buy a gun and bring it over the border we wouldn't have as many issues.

  4. #4249

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kusanagi View Post
    As someone who's black and lived in the metro detroit area most of his life, blaming the city's issues solely on democrats is lazy and a touch ignorant. It ignores the city's over reliance on the auto industry and lack of diversification of businesses, the systematic racism/segregation that promoted white flight and de-investment in the city over the course of decades. It also ignores the state republican leadership promoting private education and defunding of public schools (After all Betsy Devos came from this state sadly).

    That's not to say Democrats are blameless, Kwame Kilpatrick was a corrupt, criminal, disgrace, but saying "Democrats destroyed Detroit" is to ignore history.

    edit: Didn't even get into the utter catastrophe of Flint. Handled by a Republican appointed city manager, a republican state legislature, and Republican Governor.
    And elected officials in Flint who accrued massive debts. And the government of Detroit, which canceled a contract to provide water to Flint.

  5. #4250
    Ol' Doogie, Circa 2005 JDogindy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wakeneuron View Post
    I'm independent but I will probably never vote for Democrat again. Most large urban communities are under Democratic leadership and the conditions there are horrible. Under bill Clinton Black incarceration has gone up after the signing the North American Free Trade Agreement which directly caused the construction of more Private Prisons which imprisoned shockingly 80 percent of the local residents who of course were poor and/or Black. Also increased the number of Detention Centers which of course imprisons poor migrants who only came here looking for a job. Shockingly I read a few years back an article that documents the journey of migrants from farming communities in Mexico. Some of these migrants come to the US because they live in mountanious areas. The journey into the US is quickier than going into the larger cities of Mexico because there infrastructure and the roads connecting the small Mexican towns to the city are terrible or nonexistence. Imo the flow of migrants can slow tremendously with improve roads and infastructure in rural Mexico.

    The Democrats and some Republicans are hypocritical. They advocate hard for the rights of Women and the free press but say nothing about the many human rights abuses in countries around the World.
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  6. #4251
    What fresh hell is this? ChadH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farealmer View Post
    I always question why newbies always show up at a place they aren't welcome to debate with people that don't want to hear them. Is the internet not big enough to find a place like that without coming to one that isn't just to stir the pot?
    It's not that no one here wants to hear them. It's that their arguments typically lack any real integrity. They can dress it up and put a bow on it but at the end of the day they're still trying to defend the indefensible. .
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  7. #4252
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonesaw View Post
    By your own logic, anybody who voted/supports Donald Trump is *insert word*-phobe, bigot ect.

    I personally know people who voted democrat and support democrats who opening hate white people- racists. If you are saying that excludes them from the party, whether they claim to be in it or not, fine. I can get behind that. You might want to tell your party leaders that they need to reinforce that idea though.



    LOL written by a 25 year old "political editor" from a left-leaning esquire! Awesome source! No agenda there!


    What do you say to this one?

    https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na...628-story.html

    or this one?

    https://www.jta.org/2019/07/08/unite...ention-centers
    The problem with saying that the holocaust has an exclusive to the term 'concentration camp' makes it much more difficult to ensure that the two most important words to arise from it to be a reality. Those two words are 'never again.'

    And FDR called the Japanese internment camps 'concentration camps', so clearly the words aren't exclusive. The ones run by the nazis are more accurately called 'death camps', but even those didn't start out that way. They worked up to it bit by bit, starting with dehumanizing their victims and escalating towards mass slaughter over the course of time.

    And seeing some similar language being used against both groups ("Not even human, they are animals" has been spoken out loud both then and now) makes it harder and harder not to see parallels.
    "Theory: The Phoenix doesn't corrupt the characters, it corrupts the authors." Gambit, King of Thieves

  8. #4253

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonesaw View Post
    LOL written by a 25 year old "political editor" from a left-leaning esquire! Awesome source! No agenda there!

    What do you say to this one?
    I'd say you're demonstrating two more key elements of modern "American conservatives".

    One, you didn't perhaps didn't read what you just cited. While the L.A. Times article interviewed a Holocaust survivor who said the camps "aren't like Auschwitz", it's because her personal definition is that "captives live in daily fear of being killed". She still, however, found the treatment of those in them deplorable, and criticized it. Because she apparently is a decent human being with a soul who wouldn't defend what is obviously a violation of people's human rights.

    Two, you're dismissing articles that disagree with your personal views, and posting ones from sources that are... not journalists, at all. Journalists, being who have a duty to portray something from an objective point of view.

    So really, it's like seeing all the items getting ticked off a checklist proving down all the qualities of a modern American conservative. Jumping through all the hoops they have to, making bad faith arguments in order to still sleep at night while trying to deny the inhuman things that their party is doing.
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  9. #4254
    Postin' since Aug '05 Dalak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonesaw View Post
    By your own logic, anybody who voted/supports Donald Trump is *insert word*-phobe, bigot ect.

    I personally know people who voted democrat and support democrats who opening hate white people- racists. If you are saying that excludes them from the party, whether they claim to be in it or not, fine. I can get behind that. You might want to tell your party leaders that they need to reinforce that idea though.
    It's a fact that you're supporting it if you continue to support Trump and those that coddle him, which means you're fine with bigotry as long as they agree with you otherwise. Are you fine with all the abuses these people are being subjected to using your tax dollars? Are you doing anything to hold your party leaders responsible for it?

    Also: Can you name enough elected dems who openly hate Whites to match the hundreds of conservatives across the country who blatantly hate on LGBT/Muslims and openly advocate for their religious freedom to do so? I can assure you not one person I've voted for has openly advocated for the right to abuse and oppress white folks, can you say the same for those you've voted for regarding LGBT/Muslims/Minorities?

  10. #4255
    What fresh hell is this? ChadH's Avatar
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    It's interesting how often defenders of Trumps immigration policies focus on the "concentration camp" description as a means of deflecting from the actual conditions in the camps. It really doesn't matter what you label it, the conditions are not fit for human beings - especially children. What does it say about an administration that would encourage this? What does it say about members of a political party who would attempt to justify it?

    That's why Conservatives typically don't last long here. They understand on some level that they're defending a terrible group of people and rather than admit that to themselves or anyone here they usually have a meltdown and get banned. It's the easiest way out and they can tell themselves they didn't capitulate.
    Last edited by ChadH; 07-11-2019 at 10:58 AM.
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    "By all means, compare these s**t-heads to Nazis." - Mike Godwin referring to the protesters in Charlottesville.

  11. #4256
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    Quote Originally Posted by worstblogever View Post
    I'd say you're demonstrating two more key elements of modern "American conservatives".

    One, you didn't perhaps didn't read what you just cited. While the L.A. Times article interviewed a Holocaust survivor who said the camps "aren't like Auschwitz", it's because her personal definition is that "captives live in daily fear of being killed". She still, however, found the treatment of those in them deplorable, and criticized it. Because she apparently is a decent human being with a soul who wouldn't defend what is obviously a violation of people's human rights.
    I never said the camps were ideal. The point is, they are abstractly being compared to the most associated, commonly referred to thing connected with that word- Nazi concentration camps (you know, for that much needed emotional affect). Perhaps if there was more funding (not being blocked) or donations from more of the people outcrying over them, they could be improved. At the same time, again, I ask how many of the immigrants are truly seeking asylum and not just wanting to get in the easier way? The other curious aspect about this, with as heavily this is covered in the media, it's safe to say that these people crossing the border know A) it's illegal and will likely feel some form of repercussion and B) may end up in a detention area...yet they do it anyway. Strange.

    Quote Originally Posted by worstblogever View Post
    Two, you're dismissing articles that disagree with your personal views, and posting ones from sources that are... not journalists, at all. Journalists, being who have a duty to portray something from an objective point of view.
    "Journalists." a 25 year old political writer for a journal proven to be left-leaning. Not a historian. Not someone who was alive as an adult during that time. I mean, if there was ever a time to question journalism, I would think it would be obvious that it has never been less-credible. I have no idea how you reconcile that "journalists" on the whole are the ultimate source for objectivity. LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by worstblogever View Post
    So really, it's like seeing all the items getting ticked off a checklist proving down all the qualities of a modern American conservative. Jumping through all the hoops they have to, making bad faith arguments in order to still sleep at night while trying to deny the inhuman things that their party is doing.
    The camps were used during the Obama administration as well, chum.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChadH View Post
    It's interesting how often defenders of Trumps immigration policies focus on the "concentration camp" description as a means of deflecting from the actual conditions in the camps. It really doesn't matter what you label it, the conditions are not fit for human beings - especially children.
    Nevermind that they are completely overwhelmed with the amount of immigrants that have allowed to cross the border. Just continue to keep that element out of the formula. It must be, has to be evil republicans.
    Last edited by Bonesaw; 07-11-2019 at 11:07 AM.

  12. #4257

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChadH View Post
    It's interesting how often defenders of Trumps immigration policies focus on the "concentration camp" description as a means of deflecting from the actual conditions in the camps. It really doesn't matter what you label it, the conditions are not fit for human beings - especially children. What does it say about an administration that would encourage this? What does it say about members of a political party who would attempt to justify it?

    That's why Conservatives typically don't last long here. They understand on some level that they're defending a terrible group of people and rather than admit that to themselves or anyone here they usually have a meltdown and get banned. It's the easiest way out and they can tell themselves they didn't capitulate.
    This is it. Like, the "jumping off" moment was some time ago, and yet... Kris Kobach is still was the GOP's nominee to be the next Governror of Kansas in 2018. In 2020, he's now vying to be the nominee for Pat Roberts' Senate seat... and he'll probably win. I've been posting about him since 2014, and for five years, noting that the SPLC has him trafficking with multiple anti-immigrant hate groups.

    So how is he still right there? Why was he given a job in the Trump administration to try and put racist questions into the census? At what point to Republicans look at guys like this and go, "Please, get me someone who isn't a screaming bigot. I will not hold my nose and vote for them."?

    I'm still waiting. And I just keep seeing conservatives defend worse and worse things reflexively. And it's chilling.
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  13. #4258
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChadH View Post
    It's not that no one here wants to hear them. It's that their arguments typically lack any real integrity. They can dress it up and put a bow on it but at the end of the day they're still trying to defend the indefensible. .
    True, I came on a bit strong with that post. It's just this song and dance with conservative apologists coming into an obvious left leaning thread to "show us the light" is getting old. I mean Mets can get grating for people but at least he doesn't use "the liberal boogeyman" counter argument as his go to. The t-shirt thing aside.

    You got the right of it here.
    That's why Conservatives typically don't last long here. They understand on some level that they're defending a terrible group of people and rather than admit that to themselves or anyone here they usually have a meltdown and get banned. It's the easiest way out and they can tell themselves they didn't capitulate.
    Sometimes I think there is a place they come from and when one fails they go back, slam CBR, then the next guy from there comes to "take a crack" at it.

  14. #4259

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonesaw View Post
    The camps were used during the Obama administration as well, chum.
    Ah, it's the next predictable step of a conservative argument... "BOTH SIDES DO IT"

    Under Obama... House Democrats opposed the move. However, there was no family separation. Children weren't being forced to raise children. Children weren't being sexually assaulted. Children weren't dying in custody. Detention centers weren't on a scale that violated anyone's human rights for being overfilled. People weren't being denied showers. Or soap. Or toothpaste. Or human rights. Children weren't being locked in vans in the heat overnight.

    That an immigrant detention center was holding people pending amnesty hearings wasn't acceptable. And thus, why the Democratic party bucked their own president (go figure). And I don't see Democrats lining up to rally around Obama for doing it. We didn't then, we aren't now.

    However, we're not talking about four years ago. We're talking about right now. And what you're seeing is, "How can we make this as cruel as possible?" Also, "How can we profit from this by allowing for private contractors to hold as many people and charge $775 a day for each migrant, regardless of how they're being treated? Can we sucker rubes and racists to support it so we can line our pockets? Are they actually dim and bigoted enough to get behind this? They are? THEY ARE? WOO HOO! CASH IN!"

    And you're defending them, in the name of "conservatism", like it's a team sport. By grasping at any and every straw.

    When you should be saying, "My tax dollars are paying for children being treated like animals. Why would I support that?"

    Because hey, that's an option.
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  15. #4260
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Just for the record, you really can't donate anything to these ICE controlled dentention centers. People have tried and they are turned away As pointed out by WBE, we are already paying for them through our taxes. But you can donate to other organizations like the ACLU or Rescue.org

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