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  1. #4291
    What fresh hell is this? ChadH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonesaw View Post
    Nevermind that they are completely overwhelmed with the amount of immigrants that have allowed to cross the border. Just continue to keep that element out of the formula. It must be, has to be evil republicans.
    Doesn't really have much to do with my statement but, what the hell, I'll bite...
    First of all, if the immigration people are overwhelmed it's due to decisions in policy dictated by higher-ups in the administration. Ask yourself who dictated the policy to separate children from their parents - effectively multiplying the number of people to attend too? The parents would've taken care of their own children. Why separate them and create the need for their care and then not provide it? Is it intentional cruelty or incompetence or both?
    Answer those questions if you really want to defend the sort of people who would abuse children.
    Last edited by ChadH; 07-11-2019 at 08:07 PM.
    The Cover Contest Weekly Winners Thread So much winning!!

    "When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis
    "Being politically incorrect shouldn't be a matter of pride. It's the last gasp of the wrong side of history." - Unknown
    "By all means, compare these s**t-heads to Nazis." - Mike Godwin referring to the protesters in Charlottesville.

  2. #4292
    Surfing With The Alien Spike-X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonesaw View Post
    Also, my issues with "diversity" in general is that some of it feels forced, via agenda by politicians and media outlets with ulterior motives.
    If it sometimes feels 'forced', maybe that's because sometimes it has to be, because there are some people who only want to see/hear able-bodied, heterosexsual, cisgender, rich, white, 'Christian' men.

    And isn't it interesting how that one very specific sub-group has come to mean 'the majority', with everyone who doesn't fit all, or any, of those categories being marginalized as a minority?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonesaw View Post
    Many prominant democrats are advocating for...free health care for all.
    And that would be bad because...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonesaw View Post
    How much money did you say you donated to alleviate those children at the border?

    Just curious.
    How would donating money get them out of overcrowded prison camps where they're forced to sleep on concrete floors, covered in their own filth? To whom should we be making these donations?

    Just curious.

  3. #4293
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonesaw View Post
    They are not "concentration camps" as the term is most commonly associated with Nazi germany. Not even close.
    They are indeed, by many commonly accepted definitions of the term. They're not actual death camps (yet), but death camps is a subset of the larger group of facilities that fall under the classification of 'concentration camps'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonesaw View Post
    AOC has been called out by jews because of her ridiculous labeling. The people who use that term to describe the camps at the border...man, the credibility just plummets.
    And she's been backed up by many more who agree with her. The people who only mention the ones who disagree with her to discredit her trying to actually do something about children being locked in cages...man, the credibility just plummets.

  4. #4294

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulBullion View Post
    A forum that has a problem with cruelty and fascism is not automatically an "echo chamber."
    I'd agree here, but it does require accurately diagnosing fascism and cruelty.

  5. #4295
    Surfing With The Alien Spike-X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    The problem with saying that the holocaust has an exclusive to the term 'concentration camp' makes it much more difficult to ensure that the two most important words to arise from it to be a reality. Those two words are 'never again.'

    And FDR called the Japanese internment camps 'concentration camps', so clearly the words aren't exclusive. The ones run by the nazis are more accurately called 'death camps', but even those didn't start out that way. They worked up to it bit by bit, starting with dehumanizing their victims and escalating towards mass slaughter over the course of time.

    And seeing some similar language being used against both groups ("Not even human, they are animals" has been spoken out loud both then and now) makes it harder and harder not to see parallels.
    Exactly. "Never again" doesn't mean, "Wait until it starts happening again". It means cut that shit off before it does.

  6. #4296
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spike-X View Post
    Ok, finally something of substance.

    Sorta.

    First of all, nobody is arguing for completely open borders, where just anyone and everyone can come and stay. Nobody. so you can cross that off your list of things to argue with.

    Secondly of all:



    The facts are out there, if you really are interested in looking for them, and not just seeking to cast aspersions against people who are worse off on their best day than you'll ever be on your worst. The best place to start looking for these facts probably isn't a comic book message board.

    Third of all, the main reason health care is so expensive in the United States is because a bunch of rich and powerful people have conspired to make and keep it that way. Your problem should be with them, not with the people who need it.

    Fourthly of all, the jab about "take an immigrant family into your house and pay for their healthcare". People aren't looking to move to the US for a free ride. They move because they want to work, to earn the money to look after themselves and their families. They work damn hard, for a lot less money, and everyone knows it.
    If you are in a country where you have no legal status, is it more or less likely that you will always be working for a lot less money?

  7. #4297
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonesaw View Post
    I never said the camps were ideal. The point is, they are abstractly being compared to the most associated, commonly referred to thing connected with that word- Nazi concentration camps (you know, for that much needed emotional affect).
    It's not 'abstract' to compare a thing to another thing that is similar. It's calling a spade a goddamn shovel.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonesaw View Post
    Perhaps if there was more funding (not being blocked)
    They're spending $770 per captive, per night. How much do you think toothbrushes cost?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonesaw View Post
    or donations from more of the people outcrying over them, they could be improved.
    People have turned up with goods to donate. They're being turned away.

    The captives in the concentration camps aren't denied blankets or toothbrushes or soap or basic human fucking dignity because there's not enough money for those things. They're being denied those things as a deliberate choice. This isn't pointless cruelty we're seeing here. The cruelty is the point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonesaw View Post
    At the same time, again, I ask how many of the immigrants are truly seeking asylum and not just wanting to get in the easier way?
    Again, you seek to cast aspersions and try to dismiss genuine refugees as 'economic migrants'. If you were really that interested in knowing the facts, you'd have them by now. they're not difficult to find.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonesaw View Post
    The other curious aspect about this, with as heavily this is covered in the media, it's safe to say that these people crossing the border know A) it's illegal and will likely feel some form of repercussion and B) may end up in a detention area...yet they do it anyway. Strange.
    Maybe they're hoping to encounter somebody with some basic human decency? If so, I guess they've come to the wrong country. You seem to have run out.

  8. #4298
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    If you are in a country where you have no legal status, is it more or less likely that you will always be working for a lot less money?
    Of course. I wasn't trying to imply that it was by choice.
    Last edited by Spike-X; 07-11-2019 at 05:40 PM.

  9. #4299
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonesaw View Post
    The camps were used during the Obama administration as well, chum.
    Yep. I've been waiting for this one. I think we got Bingo here, guys!

    Here's a little something I wrote about that the other night, after giving it a bit of thought. I figured someone would give me an excuse to post it here sooner or later.

    There’s been a curious response from sections of the American Right, regarding the cruel, inhumane, and downright despicable treatment of the human beings that the US government currently has locked away in concentration camps, under the guise of ‘border protection’.

    “Obama did it too.”

    First of all, no. Obama didn’t do it too. Obama didn’t lock children in cages for months on end, without blankets, without soap or toothbrushes, without clean drinking water. There has been much written about what Obama actually did and didn’t do, and I’m not interested in rehashing basic facts here.

    What I am interested in, is asking one simple question. If we were to accept, just for a minute, that your claims are true - that under President Obama, human beings were kept in conditions worse that the roughest prison in the US; conditions that, were you to keep animals in a similar fashion, you would be prosecuted; if you were to keep your own children in these conditions, those children would be taken away from you, and you would be branded not just an unfit parent, but an unfit human being - the question that comes to mind is this...

    Where were you?

    You, the people who opposed everything, real or imagined (mostly the latter), President Obama said, and did, and even thought about doing? Where was your constant Obama-bashing when children were being locked up in these ghastly camps, under the most abhorrent conditions? Where were the hourly Fox News updates on conditions inside the Obama Camps?

    You howled with indignation when President Obama gave a televised address to children in schools, espousing the subversive, anti-American values of *checks notes* working hard and staying in school. You lost your collective minds when the First Lady suggested that eating...what was it again? Fruits and vegetables? Might be a good idea for American children?

    You protested loudly and furiously against those things, and a thousand others, but were suddenly nowhere to be heard when the President of the United States was supposedly locking babies in cages? After all the trivial, ridiculous crap you carried on with, when you weren’t just outright making stuff up to get mad about, that was the one and only thing you didn’t think was worth raising a fuss over?

    Really?

    Not a word? Not one poorly-spelled, single run-on sentence, grammatical nightmare of a Facebook post? Not a single newspaper or television editorial? Not a solitary fucking peep, in eight years, about Obama locking children in cages, sleeping on concrete, covered in their own shit?

    Nothing? From any of you?

    So, then. Given that you claim that these conditions existed under President Obama, and given the deafening silence emanating from the entirety of the American Right in response, the casual observer can only draw two possible conclusions:

    1: you’re lying, or

    2: you loved the idea of brown people in concentration camps even more than you hated the idea of black people in the White House.

    Which is it?

  10. #4300
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spike-X View Post
    They are indeed, by many commonly accepted definitions of the term. They're not actual death camps (yet), but death camps is a subset of the larger group of facilities that fall under the classification of 'concentration camps'.



    And she's been backed up by many more who agree with her. The people who only mention the ones who disagree with her to discredit her trying to actually do something about children being locked in cages...man, the credibility just plummets.
    Among those people who agree with AOC is George Takei who spent time in one of those camps as a child.
    Avatar: Here's to the late, great Steve Dillon. Best. Punisher. Artist. EVER!

  11. #4301
    Surfing With The Alien Spike-X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonesaw View Post
    Wow. I'm sorry you feel that way. If anybody ever wondered why your everyday Joe White taxpayer, with his head down, just trying to keep his sanity as trudges back and forth to work eveyday is becoming more and more agitated with the democratic party, look no further than this quote.

    Jesus, man. Way to go with more of your insulting generalizations and assumptions.
    Speaking of generalizations and assumptions, you just literally described me. The only thing I'd take issue with is that, yes, I am becoming more and more agitated with the Democrat Party (and my own country's equivalent, the Australian Labor Party), but it's not because they're a bunch of horrible anti-white bigots that want to take my money and give it all to brown people. It's because they're not fighting hard enough against the cruel and inhumane policies and actions of both our countries' current governments.

  12. #4302
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulBullion View Post
    A forum that has a problem with cruelty and fascism is not automatically an "echo chamber."
    I would like to echo this sentiment.



    Heeheehee

  13. #4303
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spike-X View Post
    Speaking of generalizations and assumptions, you just literally described me. The only thing I'd take issue with is that, yes, I am becoming more and more agitated with the Democrat Party (and my own country's equivalent, the Australian Labor Party), but it's not because they're a bunch of horrible anti-white bigots that want to take my money and give it all to brown people. It's because they're not fighting hard enough against the cruel and inhumane policies and actions of both our countries' current governments.
    Without taking a side here...

    If you are potentially losing some "Joe White Taxpayer"(which I would personally still chalk up to "Unproven Assertion...") votes(never mind legal Latino immigrants/citizens. We won't really be able to judge that until we see Trump's numbers in the next Presidential election), does it put you in a more or less likely position to be able to fight against those policies?

  14. #4304
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    Without taking a side here...

    If you are potentially losing some "Joe White Taxpayer"(which I would personally still chalk up to "Unproven Assertion...") votes, does it put you in a more or less likely position to be able to fight against those policies?
    In Australia, at least, it seems to me that the Labor Party are losing votes because they're trying too hard to appeal to Liberal Party* voters, because they don't seem to realize that those voters already have a party to vote for.

    What's the point of putting yourself up as an alternative if you're not actually going to be one?


    * Actually the opposite of what it sounds like. Basically Republican-lite.

  15. #4305
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spike-X View Post
    In Australia, at least, it seems to me that the Labor Party are losing votes because they're trying too hard to appeal to Liberal Party* voters, because they don't seem to realize that those voters already have a party to vote for.

    What's the point of putting yourself up as an alternative if you're not actually going to be one?


    * Actually the opposite of what it sounds like. Basically Republican-lite.
    Agree completely.

    That said, how hard will you be able to fight if you lose an election?

    At the very least, it feels like it needs to be either...

    - Win the Presidency.
    - Hold onto the House, and pull off a pretty good pickup in the Senate.

    Anything except that, and I don't know how much of a position they will be in to fight the things that have come up.

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