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  1. #4516
    Fantastic Member kmeyers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    I take your point, but I don't know anyone on they left who doesn't think Trump is a racist.
    And isn't that kind of telling? Everyone is against racists...except for racists.

  2. #4517
    Fantastic Member kmeyers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    A lot of people would die if the Courts struck down the ACA.
    Only poor people.

  3. #4518
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmeyers View Post
    And isn't that kind of telling? Everyone is against racists...except for racists.
    And shameless Trump apologists/buttmunchers.
    Avatar: Here's to the late, great Steve Dillon. Best. Punisher. Artist. EVER!

  4. #4519
    Ol' Doogie, Circa 2005 JDogindy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    Why isn it that when Pelosi has a dispute with a few young, more progressive Dems, the Party is in disarray.

    But when the right wing loons in the GOP go off, like Gomert, King or the Freedom Caucus, all is still rainbows with their party?
    Gotta protect the interests of the party at all costs. Ethics and morality be damned. That's why Republicans don't throw the corrupt politicians under the bus during times of scandal.

  5. #4520
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    Why isn it that when Pelosi has a dispute with a few young, more progressive Dems, the Party is in disarray.

    But when the right wing loons in the GOP go off, like Gomert, King or the Freedom Caucus, all is still rainbows with their party?
    A lot of mainstream Republicans really follow that Reagan mantra of speak no ill of a fellow Republican and take it really seriously. Many of them know full well the flaws and bad eggs in their party, but they won't criticize one of their own in public.

  6. #4521
    Ol' Doogie, Circa 2005 JDogindy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    I do discuss the problem with the children in the camps.

    I suppose I don't have a lot of posts responding to solutions posed by Democratic lawmakers and policy experts, but that's because a lot of the discussion is complaining about the problem without providing solution (IE- Where should the kids go? Where should the parents go? For how long? What criteria should be used to determine the merits of an asylum claim?)
    You know, I swear, unlike the trolls and the griefers who come here all the time to bait us about being right wing and then run off the moment someone bites the hook, I don't know what it is about you that is so... stubborn, and fastidious towards ignoring things that paint your beloved GOP in a negative light? Democrats don't favor "open borders". Open borders would be the antithesis towards national security and protecting this country. The issue, based from my somewhat ignorant perspective, stems more towards a frustration that, this year, Trump had the government shut down so he could get his wall funding, but had to reopen the government and didn't get the funding for the wall, and you presumably not liking that outcome since it set the party back as it meant the president failed in one of his major goals.

    As for this particular bout of whataboutism, I'll play along. We don't need to make fancy resorts that Candace Owens claims we have given immigrants with Zumba classes and spa treatments, since that's ludicrous and airheaded, even for someone as obnoxious as her. That being said, an unfortunate reality is that, right now, we must consider that there is a rise of immigration coming in from the south and that we need to factor this in regarding processing and handling, which may require the construction of more facilities along the southern border to handle the influx, to start. This can help curb overcrowding. The government is always hiring for Border Patrol in its various departments, but considering that the people in charge change during presidential administrations, and the people in charge tend to follow along with ideologies of said president in charge, in a perfect world, you could have this be operated by a non-partisan, third party group, but that would most likely violate several laws. Therefore, you're always going to have issues of years with favorable and unfavorable policies towards asylum seekers and other illegal activities. That's an unfortunate reality.

  7. #4522
    Ol' Doogie, Circa 2005 JDogindy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    A lot of mainstream Republicans really follow that Reagan mantra of speak no ill of a fellow Republican and take it really seriously. Many of them know full well the flaws and bad eggs in their party, but they won't criticize one of their own in public.
    It was the Reagan Era that one of Reagan's associates said that there are two kinds of Americans; Democrats and Americans. Obviously, if you're not a Republican voter, you're not "American", so all Republicans watch each other's backs to protect themselves from the socialist-loving liberal menace.

  8. #4523
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDogindy View Post
    The issue, based from my somewhat ignorant perspective, stems more towards a frustration that, this year, Trump had the government shut down so he could get his wall funding, but had to reopen the government and didn't get the funding for the wall
    The wall that Mexico was supposed to pay for.

    Lie upon lie upon lie -- "open borders" is just one more out of many.

    And the failure to directly address their criminal behavior is the most telling of all, which is why I say prosecution is the answer.
    Last edited by aja_christopher; 07-14-2019 at 07:22 PM.

  9. #4524
    What fresh hell is this? ChadH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    First, numerous people are calling for Open Borders.

    Here's a guy from Vox.

    https://www.vox.com/2015/7/29/904840...s-open-borders

    Here's Farhad Manjoo, writing in the New York Times.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/16/o...migration.html

    Democrats as elected officials don't offer any limiting principle on who should be an American. They've generally alluded to a preference to increasing limits on legal immigration, while being vague on what the new limit should be.

    There would be two reasons for that. They would have reason to fear the political consequences. Right now, it's easy to bash the Trump administration and Republicans when there isn't a clear alternative. If there's a Democratic description, then it becomes an actual choice. The second potential reason is that they don't want to have public arguments between a party establishment taking a slightly unpopular position (there should be an increase in the number of legal immigrants admitted per year by up to X%) and the advocates who want them to go further.

    Andrew Sullivan has written about this pretty well.

    https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019...migration.html





    I can't really discuss that until there's an idea of the alternatives, the solutions proposed by Democrats.
    I seem to recall that your parents are immigrants?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    A lot of people would die if the Courts struck down the ACA.
    The people abolishing it and their families get a platinum health care plan paid for with the taxes of the people whose health care they're taking away.
    Last edited by ChadH; 07-14-2019 at 07:40 PM.
    The Cover Contest Weekly Winners Thread So much winning!!

    "When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis
    "Being politically incorrect shouldn't be a matter of pride. It's the last gasp of the wrong side of history." - Unknown
    "By all means, compare these s**t-heads to Nazis." - Mike Godwin referring to the protesters in Charlottesville.

  10. #4525
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    A lot of people would die if the Courts struck down the ACA.
    Unfortunately it's looking more and more that that's what it's going to take to finally fix things. The majority of the US population is not taking the country's healthcare situation seriously.

  11. #4526
    Ol' Doogie, Circa 2005 JDogindy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChadH View Post
    I seem to recall that your parents are immigrants?



    The people abolishing it and their families get a platinum health care plan paid for with the taxes of the people whose health care they're taking away.
    "You know what really aggravazes me? Is them immiggants; they want all the benefits of living in Springfield, but they ain't even bothered to learn themself the language."

  12. #4527
    Ol' Doogie, Circa 2005 JDogindy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wjowski View Post
    Unfortunately it's looking more and more that that's what it's going to take to finally fix things. The majority of the US population is not taking the country's healthcare situation seriously.
    And even though, I doubt it'll be taken seriously.

    Yesterday, my brother went to the emergency room for tooth pains that sparked up after a dental procedure earlier this past week and we wanted some additional advice and help on what to do until his dental office opened up. Unfortunately, we had to up and leave since, well, the emergency room is effectively still the only means of access for health care for people, even more so as how the state of Indiana is making it so you must work in order to qualify for Medicaid (it's currently at 20 hours a month to ween people into this program change, but it's going to be increased to 80 hours, with additional requirements) and I don't even wanna go into the "open market" aspect of buying insurance each year. Naturally, when you're a conservative state dominated by Republican lawmakers who are more concerned about saving money (and I'm all for fiscal conservatism, don't get me wrong; but there's things that you don't want to be picky about spending, particularly if you're thinking about your rural voters who, surprise, surprise, vote Republican and are dependent on these benefits), this sounds wonderful as it cuts down on "pork barrel spending", yet it means it will force people to forgo preventive care and instead only make hospital trips to the ER as they don't have other options, or the options they used to have are closing up and becoming more difficult to access.

    From a counterargument, or "devil's advocate", you can argue that emergency rooms are often filled with GOMERs, crack heads looking for free meds or prescription refills, or ignorant people wasting time, but considering how difficult we make it that minor treatments can be seen, I can only imagine how hard it would've been for, say, someone who had heat stroke, to be seen that day, and how much better things can be if we can set it up so it can be easier for people to not have to rely on ER visits as their only option for everyday annoyances.

  13. #4528
    Extraordinary Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Rural health care is a travesty in this country and the Republicans aren't making it better. The ACA did try but the gutting of intended Medicaid expansion, which would've helped to prevent the closure of so many rural clinics and hospitals, has made it worse than ever.

  14. #4529
    Ol' Doogie, Circa 2005 JDogindy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    Rural health care is a travesty in this country and the Republicans aren't making it better. The ACA did try but the gutting of intended Medicaid expansion, which would've helped to prevent the closure of so many rural clinics and hospitals, has made it worse than ever.
    The thing is; people are always happy about tearing stuff down 'cuz we like seeing shit get knocked down, but they don't like the idea of building things up, as it requires thinking, foresight, and understanding what may come. That's why a lot of GOP lawmakers want to see the ACA dismantled, but if you ask them what plans would they set up to replace it, they either clam up, redirect you to someone else, or suggest something lame like "voucher-based" or "free, open market".

  15. #4530

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    Quote Originally Posted by JDogindy View Post
    Gotta protect the interests of the party at all costs. Ethics and morality be damned. That's why Republicans don't throw the corrupt politicians under the bus during times of scandal.
    One of the most illustrative scandals was the Ralph Notham one for Democrats.

    It shows the party is willing to punish colleagues for scandals when there are no costs to it, insisting on the removal of Al Franken when he'll be replaced by a successor chosen by a Democratic Governor (and when there was a special election where the Republican was accused of earlier wrongdoing in another state) or deciding after 2016's election that Bill Clinton should have resigned, but that the moment it might actually have political costs, they'll back their candidates.

    There were uniform calls for Ralph Northam to resign, until it turned out that the second in line (credibly accused of sexual assault by one woman and rape by another) and third in line (also did blackface in college) both had problems and taking a moral stand might result in Republicans getting power. This suggests to a cynic that Democrats aren't willing to throw anyone under the bus when it matters, and that concerns about ethics are just posturing.

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