All Purpose News and Politics Thread Part IV: The Center Cannot Hold

[BeastieRunner]

Steward is on the same track as Turner.

Steward established that leaks were intended to damage Trump.

Mueller says while the leaks happened, none were false.

Mueller disagreed with Steward that the leaks disrupted the American public, but cast a cloud over currently investigated parties.

Quigley established that Junior publicly tweeted links prior to their release.

Mueller disagreed and corrected that those links were already out.

Mueller agree wikileaks is dangerous hostel foreign intelligence agent.

Mueller established that Trump's love of WikiLeaks is "problematic at best and very disturbing."

Mueller referred Quigly to the current ongoing investigation involving WikiLeaks, Steel, Page, and Junior.

[jetengine]

Just so you know, no impeachment is happening, stop getting your hopes up over every little thing

I mean lets be real here. Working with a foreign nation that has often been considered an enemy to get information to put ones self into power is worse then "Hire some goons to break in and steal the info". I mean its pretty mych tge same but on an international scale.

[BeastieRunner]

Nunes is asking a lot of current or different investigations.

Mueller referred him to a separate Clinton investigation and concluding Mueller wrap-ups, and separate WikiLeaks, etc. investigations.

Nunes' theory he posits is that Democrats conspired with Russians to assist Donald Trump in securing an electoral victory so that they could later undermine Trump's presidency.

Time for a break.

[BeastieRunner]

I mean lets be real here. Working with a foreign nation that has often been considered an enemy to get information to put ones self into power is worse then "Hire some goons to break in and steal the info". I mean its pretty mych tge same but on an international scale.

Mueller mentioned that during the "this was not a witch hunt" opening.

Same with the "this is not a hoax" portion.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

I mean lets be real here. Working with a foreign nation that has often been considered an enemy to get information to put ones self into power is worse then "Hire some goons to break in and steal the info". I mean its pretty mych tge same but on an international scale.

And listen to what Republicans who own the Senate are saying and listen to the leader of the House who doesn’t want a losing battle on her hands before an election.

In s perfect world this would be beyond the pale. In reality, it’s messy enough that Republicans are going to market it how they want

[BeastieRunner]

“Problematic is an understatement in terms of what it displays in terms of giving some hope, or, I don’t know, some boost, to what is, and should be, illegal activity.” -- Robert Mueller on Trump's love of WikiLeaks.

Mueller is up to 155 refusals to answer questions. 132 from Rs, 23 from Ds.

99 are in relation to concluding investigations or separate ones. The rest are privileged information.

[Iron Maiden]

Lest we forget that it was Nancy Devos' brother and ex-CEO of Blackwater, Erik Prince who helped facilitate that back-channel meeting in the Seychelles in 2017.

And I don't think anyone knows exactly what was discussed/agreed up there

[aja_christopher]

Just so you know, no impeachment is happening, stop getting your hopes up over every little thing

The irony of hearing that from a Sanders supporter isn't lost on me -- point being, it isn't all about impeachment.

Whether impeachment happens or not, American citizens deserve a full accounting of Russian interference in our election -- and the Republican corruption that fosters and protects it -- before making a decision in 2020.

What they do with that information is up to them, but this is too critical to our democracy to just play off as "politics as usual" regardless of public response.

[Iron Maiden]

I like how the Democrats prepped for this. Many times they've displayed for Mueller's reference a segment of the report that they are referring to in the questions. Adam Schiff made a master stroke (and newsfeed worthy) of summing up all the important points and have Meuller's answer in the affirmative

[BeastieRunner]

Mueller set the record on all who lied to Mueller & Congress during the investigation on Team Trump:

Everyone but Roger Stone. Investigation is still underway and trial is pending.

This includes Jared and Junior "who are a part of the Stone investigation."

Mueller also pointed out that he cannot talk about Jared and Junior's involvement.

Mueller cannot talk about Steele or Page.

Members of his team did travel overseas to investigate but that's all he can say.

[BeastieRunner]

Nunes threw out Misgufv again and this time Mueller pointedly said that he cannot comment on ongoing law enforcement matters.

Nunes yielded his time when he got an affirmation that Mueller cannot comment on if they indicted Jared or Junior.

Mueller is now on record (as is in the report) that Cohen established a party line to Russia, talked to Kremlin officials both before and after election, and that Trump was present during those meetings for Trump Tower Russia, both during and after the election.

Mueller affirmed.

Mueller corrected Castro's characterization that Trump did this to become POTUS. "It appeared to be centered around securing funds to clear debt and build a new business venture."

[BeastieRunner]

Hurd established that Trump owes large amount of money to oligarchs in Russia.

Hurd established that the Russian threat to our democracy needs to be handled now.

Hurd established that this is a serious issue and threat to us and our allies.

Mueller agreed.

Mueller suggested all US intelligence agencies need to coordinate to stop this.

Hurd established that other countries have the current and better capabilities to do what Russia did to us.

Mueller agreed.

Mueller posited that the US is not ready to stop a major cyber terrorist or cyber warfare attack.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

The irony of hearing that from a Sanders supporter isn't lost on me -- point being, it isn't all about impeachment.

Whether impeachment happens or not, American citizens deserve a full accounting of Russian interference in our election -- and the Republican corruption that fosters and protects it -- before making a decision in 2020.

What they do with that information is up to them, but this is too critical to our democracy to just play off as "politics as usual" regardless of public response.

See this is why I call you out for acting in bad faith when it comes to Sanders all the time. This has nothing to do with Sanders, it’s s position a more moderate person like Pelosi has taken, and I have consistently supported Pelosi as Speaker in the House on this board many times. There was no reason to bring up Sanders besides you having a bone to pick with him and trying to type anything you deem negative to him. It says a lot more about you.

Impeachment has been screamed in this thread forever. It’s no more closer today than before. You’re doing yourself and the Party a MASSIVE disservice by continuing talks about something that isn’t happening and will be viewed as under delivering. Something that has always been an issue with this particular talk and has led to American apathy in regards to it.

So far Mueller hasn’t said anything that wasn’t in the report. If you didn’t already know anything today, you were willfully uninformed and probably aren’t paying attention or don’t want to. Most people made up their mind already.

[Mister Mets]

Called this being potentially important.

That's the main nuance. There seem to be two ways of looking at it. Were his statements about not being able to clear Trump, and that he'd say so if he did, a clue that if he would indict if he would could? Or is this a question he didn't consider because it wasn't part of his scope?

As John Harwood of CNBC summed it up.

Mueller now clarifying what he affirmed for Rep Lieu: he was NOT saying he would’ve charged Trump w/obstruction of justice if not for OLC opinion

was saying that, because OLC said he couldn’t, he decided not to reach a decision on whether charges would be otherwise appropriate

[BeastieRunner]

Heck re-established Mueller's evidence that Trump did this for money, not to become POTUS. "It appears winning was not in the plan with the evidence gathered."

Prince is established as a second POI that was pushing for Trump Tower Russia to get more money.

Heck established (as in the report) that Flynn, Prince, Kushner, and others wanted to establish Trump Tower Russia to sive money to pay debt.

Mueller agreed. He did correct Heck that establishing the intent is not up to him.