All Purpose News and Politics Thread Part IV: The Center Cannot Hold

[Dalak]

I'm of the opinion that if Trump squeaked out of impeachment it would motivate more Democratic voters to get to the polls in 2020.
The desire to bring him down would be even stronger after watching him and his syncophants crowing about it afterward.
Setbacks often serve to galvanize rather than discourage.

It really galvanized the Right in 2000.

McQuisling may have made Knight right on this one - all the Judges Trump got to appoint may very well decide that any gun law is Unconstitutional, and that every state must reciprocate the gun licenses of the least restrictive state.

Much like I feel that the only way around the court interpretation of binding arbitration is likely to repeal the law that allows it, and pass a new one that limits arbitration to agreements between equals.

This is a serious point, but I don't see a scenario when we have a Filibuster-Proof Majority where we have the same SCOTUS lineup let alone the appellate courts. The Challenges will be an issue, but not an insurmountable one.

Any meaningful legislation at this point

And that's where you can't seem to grasp the conversation, as the Filibuster-Proof Majority comes in looooong before 2/3rds of Congress & the States are ok with axing the 2nd. You don't need to sell anything when you can ram it through.

I remain on the side of Warren on Impeachment.

[Tuck]

This is a serious point, but I don't see a scenario when we have a Filibuster-Proof Majority where we have the same SCOTUS lineup let alone the appellate courts. The Challenges will be an issue, but not an insurmountable one.

Technically, Congress could remove gun legislation from federal jurisdiction. There was originally a provision in the ACA that removed it from federal review, but the provision was removed before the final version went to a vote.

It's probably best not to open that Pandora's Box though.

[aja_christopher]

Merry Christmas!

To put it simply, giving the Trump administration power over the life and death of American citizens is playing with fire.

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"I'm ostensibly a right leaning person on most things. I oppose the death penalty.

Why would I give a government power to execute me, while simultaneously trying to limit the scope of government?"

[PwrdOn]

Yep. I didn't vote for Trump in 2016. I won't vote for him in 2020 either. But I also cannot stand how lunatic and unhinged the democrat party has become. I'm harder on the left than I am the right nowadays because I don't have better expectations for the right whereas I'm continuously disappointed in the left who used to better. I saw a term for people like me a while back: disaffected liberal.

As things stand right now with the way things look to be going I'll be doing one of two things in 2020: 1) Not voting at all for president, or 2) Voting 3rd party again just like I did in 2016. Donald Trump sucking isn't a reason to vote for an equally awful candidate like Hilary Clinton. I'll wait and see who the dems actually run but right now with most of the candidates trying to out lunatic fringe the others 3rd party looks more and more appealing.

Ugh, are you going to tell us about how the PC police overlooked the economic plight of the white working class as well? Go on and vote Trump like you wanted to all along, the left doesn't need people like you.

[Lord Falcon]

Can someone from Britain enlighten me as to why the liberal democrats are still relatively powerless? From what I can tell, the moderates lost pull among the Tories once David Cameron stepped down, and Labor just sat on its ass doing next to nothing to offer itself as an alternative. Shouldn't the middle of the road liberal democrats have been able to capitalize on such an opportunity and seize a larger share of the middle?

[Kusanagi]

Not that I felt Ilhan Omar had anything to worry about from any Republican challenger, but I thought this was funny.

Pro Trump Republican Candidate charged with Felony Theft.

[Theleviathan]

Ultimately no one knows how it will work out either way, but to me it's important to get the facts out there regardless.

Agreed, but then I'd rather just use the powers of the House to investigate rather than call it impeachment.

[TriggerWarning]

The Democratic party is not "unhinged" especially in comparison to MAGA bombers and right-wing neo-Nazi Trump supporters marching through our streets, bombing abortion clinics, running over women, and shooting up black churches, synagogues, and mosques. If it were more Democrats who were behaving that way you might have a point but as an earlier post noted "right-wing domestic terror" is the biggest problem America is facing today in that regard.

Antifa violently attacking anyone that doesn't agree with the extreme left. If it was just Neo Nazi's that would be one thing but now Nazi has become anyone who isn't fringe left. You also see Antifa violently attacking reporters for the crime of just being present during confrontations and recording them.

Black Lives matter supporters murdering cops. Two officers assassinated in New York City, 5 in Dallas by a BLM supporter, 3 in Lousiana not long after. Many others shot or killed since. All by those radicalized by of the lies of the left that would have you believe that cops are gunning down unarmed black men on a daily basis when in reality nationwide it was a total of 20 in 2017 and 15 in 2018. And most of them were clearly justified when facts came out - for instance here are a couple of the 2017 cases: 1) The unarmed black man was violently beating the cop to death including repeatedly smashing the cop's head over and over into the concrete ground, 2) A black man with a bomb strapped to his chest who had taken hostages and was threatening to blow himself and the hostages up. A sniper shot him before he could but later they found the bomb was a fake so he got labelled an "unarmed" black man. Most end up being like this.

For every instance of violence you can cite on the right I can cite one back at you from Antifa or unhinged BLM supporters. Its disappointing that Trump won't wholly disavow the Neo Nazi groups on the right but its equally disappointing that the left wont disavow Antifa or the BLM elements that are inciting the attacks and murder of police officers. Just this week there have been numerous attacks against NYPD where people are throwing water on officers just trying to do their job. Some will go "its just water" but mark my words this is going to end badly because its going to escalate into more than water and will soon end up being bleach or something else caustic or deadly. Where's AOC condeming this kind of attack or behavior seeing as its happening right there in her town?

[TriggerWarning]

Ugh, are you going to tell us about how the PC police overlooked the economic plight of the white working class as well? Go on and vote Trump like you wanted to all along, the left doesn't need people like you.

You are typical of why many of us are disgusted with what the left has become. You automatically assume I'm a Trump supporter because I'm upset with the left. Why didn't you just use the word Nazi since thats what you meant? I didn't vote Hilary Clinton because she was a power hungry, lying, evil sociopath with a rapist husband. I voted for Bill twice because I stupidly didn't believe Juanita Broadrick, the woman he raped, and looked the other way when Hilary attacked Juanita in the press for accusing her husband. But as I'm older and wiser I've accepted the #metoo movement in large part and there was no way in hell I was going to vote to put Hilary or her rapist husband back in the white house. A vote for Hilary was a vote for Bill because your utterly naive if you don't think that Bill as a former president would have had endless power shaping policy as First Dude. I ended up throwing away my vote at Gary Johnson because he was the only morally decent candidate even if he had no chance.

I wish to this day that Biden had run in 2016. I'd have voted for him in a heartbeat. If he gets the nomination in 2020 I actually probably will vote for him. The rest of the realistic candidates though seem to be trying to out fringe each other.

[Tendrin]

Antifa violently attacking anyone that doesn't agree with the extreme left.

I just burst out laughing.

The vast majority of actual violence is coming from the right but you're still scared of 'antifa', which barely even exists beyond a inchoate anti-fascist ideology amongst a huge variety of people. You are still believing and repeating nonsense about 'the left'.

The whole purpose of criminalizing Antifa and agitating and propagandizing against it is to criminalize dissent against fascism. Since you're considering a vote for Biden, you're obviously >< to getting it, but you've still got a ways to go. Try leaving the right-wing media sphere a bit more often and you'll probably get there eventually.

[aja_christopher]

Antifa violently attacking anyone that doesn't agree with the extreme left.

I've already posted proof that right-wing attacks are more common than left-wing and Islamic terrorist attacks combined -- even the director of the FBI said they are the single greatest threat to our safety with regards to domestic terrorism.

If you were really that concerned about said attacks, you'd go with the facts rather than spouting propaganda about "antifa" and "Black Lives Matters".

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"The Rise of Far-Right Extremism in the United States"

"The threat from right-wing terrorism in the United States—and Europe—appears to be rising. Of particular concern are white supremacists and anti-government extremists, such as militia groups and so-called sovereign citizens interested in plotting attacks against government, racial, religious, and political targets in the United States.

The October 27, 2018, Pittsburgh synagogue shooting by Robert Bowers, and the arrest a day earlier of Cesar Sayoc who sent pipe bombs to prominent Democrats, appear to be the most recent manifestations of this trend. Both perpetrators were far-right extremists.

Although violent left-wing groups and individuals also present a threat, far-right-networks appear to be better armed and larger."

https://www.csis.org/analysis/rise-f...-united-states

[Mister Mets]

Can someone from Britain enlighten me as to why the liberal democrats are still relatively powerless? From what I can tell, the moderates lost pull among the Tories once David Cameron stepped down, and Labor just sat on its ass doing next to nothing to offer itself as an alternative. Shouldn't the middle of the road liberal democrats have been able to capitalize on such an opportunity and seize a larger share of the middle?

Not a brit, so someone else can correct me on this, but there's only been one House of Commons general election cycle since Cameron stepped down. During that election, Corbyn and Labour had significant gains, partly because he was able to excite the left, and it was seen as an election cycle with two main choices: the conservatives and labour.

There's been some sorting recently with the anti-brexit left favoring the Liberal Democrats and the former UKIP forming the Brexit party, so if the election were held now, the results could be very unpredictable, especially with vote-splitting in a first past the post system.

A recent survey in the Times has the four parties at between 19-25 percent. It would be like if currently polling showed Republicans at 25 percent, Democrats at 21 percent, the whigs at 20 percent, and an offshoot of the libertarian party at 19 percent.

The next election is scheduled for May 2022, but it might be earlier if there are votes of no confidence or if two-thirds of the House of Commons calls for it (which probably wouldn't happen if the two main parties are both in danger of losing to alternative parties.)

* Edit- Link fixed. Changed the comparisons a bit.

[Kusanagi]

Not a brit, so someone else can correct me on this, but there's only been one House of Commons general election cycle since Cameron stepped down. During that election, Corbyn and Labour had significant gains, partly because he was able to excite the left, and it was seen as an election cycle with two main choices: the conservatives and labour.

There's been some sorting recently with the anti-brexit left favoring the Liberal Democrats and the former UKIP forming the Brexit party, so if the election were held now, the results could be very unpredictable, especially with vote-splitting in a first past the post system.

A recent survey in the Times has the four parties at between 19-25 percent. It would be like if polling showed Republicans at 25 percent, Democrats at 21 percent, Libertarians at 20 percent, and some new party at 19 percent.

The next election is scheduled for May 2022, but it might be earlier if there are votes of no confidence or if two-thirds of the House of Commons calls for it (which probably wouldn't happen if the two main parties are both in danger of losing to alternative parties.)

Link isn't working


Adding to what you said on why the Liberal Democrats are relatively powerless, they got destroyed at the polls when they aligned with the Tories to form government and backed austerity measures and other platforms that alienated their base who flocked to Labour for the most part. Re-making themselves as the Remain party in the brexit debate has seen some bounce back though.

[numberthirty]

If Democrats do not impeach, they are effectively saying 'it's not that serious'. That's the issue. It's ceding ground. Sooner or later, they either have to say its serious, or say it's not.

We all know how serious it actually is.

Politely disagree.

What you are actually saying is more like "This is how serious we actually are about dealing with what we have told you might be the case."

It's really got nothing to do with if what Trump did(or did not do) is serious or not. It would be about how serious Democrats are about dealing with that it might be the case.

[Malvolio]

Here's what some people don't seem to get about impeachment. It's essentially a criminal case where Nancy Pelosi acts as the prosecuting attorney, the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court is the judge and the US Senate acts as the jury. Now, in any state criminal case, the DA will only prosecute if she believes that she can get a conviction. It doesn't matter what the reason is, lack of evidence, biased jury, biased judge. If there is little chance of a conviction, the DA will not indict. Now, in a regular criminal case, there's a phase called jury selection, where a prosecutor can dismiss any juror that she finds to be biased and replace that juror with a non-biased one. However, in this case, the most that Pelosi could do is ask a given Senator to recuse himself due to a possible conflict of interest. But we all know that that's not going to happen. She is stuck with a Republican majority Senate, whom she knows will not convict.

And you can cry about the rule of law all you want, but if Trump is impeached and then acquitted, do you really, honestly believe there won't be people on the fence who will say, "Well, he beat the rap. I guess he's innocent," and then vote for him anyway or stay home and make it easier for Trump to win?