All Purpose News and Politics Thread Part IV: The Center Cannot Hold

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Do Harris just outlined her “student debt relief” and “Medicare for All” proposals. Yeah she moved way down my list. Doesn’t help that the only two good things she did in the debate she walked back after the fact. Had her as a third choice. Now she’s probably nearing Gillibrand levels for me

[TheManInBlack]

I saw no reports of them plowing into peaceful crowds just waiting in line, so if you were out in the street counter-protesting the protestors that's not exactly 'no reason' depending on how you were acting. If anyone is going to shit on people engaging in street violence they shouldn't engage in street violence themselves.

As for Race vs Ideology, it applies equally. Not All Democrats are for everything the national party espouses, and Mets chimes in saying how much he disagrees with what's going on in the name of the GoP regardless of anything else involved in those schenanigans. Not every LGBT person is out there like those on Ru Paul's Drag Race, and not every person who sees themselves as Anti-Facist thinks shutting down a metal concert in Canada is a good use of effort or violence in any form other than self-defense is justified in the end. An unrelated observation along the same note: I'm sure not every single person who voted for Trump in 2016 is a bigot, but I'm confident that anyone who votes for him in 2020 is perfectly fine with bigotry as long as it's not aimed at them.

I absolutely did not counter protest anything. I have no idea why you'd assume something like that... There are plenty of stories about the Antifa violence before the last day of the festival was canceled, mostly chronicled on metal websites from people who were actually there, to be fair. Here's a link to an extremely left-leaning metal website where even they had trouble excusing the behavior: https://www.metalsucks.net/2016/11/2...o-be-canceled/ You can, of course, claim that the accounts of virtually all of the concert-goers are lies, but you'd be wrong. Hell, look for 'antifa Messe des Morts' in YouTube and you'll find videos of them throwing smoke grenades and incendiary devices, even their own video where they brag about it, claiming that they were attacked by police while the video clearly shows them armed with incendiary devices which were thrown at the cops. They were completely nuts and out of control. And let me again say that this was over one band in a multiple day festival which, as far as I can tell, doesn't even talk about nazi shit in their music.

[Tuck]

. But there are ones who don't approve of violent, like the people who bring cameras to take pictures of fascists and dox them, counting on social pressure to keep them down;

Frankly, doxxing needs to become socially unacceptable. It carries an implied threat of violence regardless of the intent of the person doing it. And I don't think anyone can honestly state that there is no concern there.

It's a tactic of blackmailers and extortionists.

It's really bad form to be in the same category as Scooter Libby.

[TheManInBlack]

Frankly, doxxing needs to become socially unacceptable. It carries an implied threat of violence regardless of the intent of the person doing it. And I don't think anyone can honestly state that there is no concern there.

It's a tactic of blackmailers and extortionists.

It's really bad form to be in the same category as Scooter Libby.

This. Doxxing is a threat of violence, and often comes directly alongside calls to action for violence and harassment.

[Dalak]

I absolutely did not counter protest anything. I have no idea why you'd assume something like that... There are plenty of stories about the Antifa violence before the last day of the festival was canceled, mostly chronicled on metal websites from people who were actually there, to be fair. Here's a link to an extremely left-leaning metal website where even they had trouble excusing the behavior: https://www.metalsucks.net/2016/11/2...o-be-canceled/ You can, of course, claim that the accounts of virtually all of the concert-goers are lies, but you'd be wrong. Hell, look for 'antifa Messe des Morts' in YouTube and you'll find videos of them throwing smoke grenades and incendiary devices, even their own video where they brag about it, claiming that they were attacked by police while the video clearly shows them armed with incendiary devices which were thrown at the cops. They were completely nuts and out of control. And let me again say that this was over one band in a multiple day festival which, as far as I can tell, doesn't even talk about nazi shit in their music.

As I read your link in the research you praised I'll repeat - I've seen no reports of Antifa plowing into peaceful crowds waiting in line. If that's not the case I'll accept some links that didn't pop up in my Google search, but until then I have to assume you were out there engaging in some way in order to get any of them to want to assault you regardless of why. Your whole tone also seems to ignore the fact that I condemned what happened as well being defensive at being called a Nazi even though no one has done so. Maybe that was what the Antifa said that set you off and thus got you to engage them, or it could be any number of other reasons but right now I have no reason to assume a gang of them just picked you at random to assault if you were doing nothing to anyone and remaining away from the protests.

[Gray Lensman]

As I read your link in the research you praised I'll repeat - I've seen no reports of Antifa plowing into peaceful crowds waiting in line. If that's not the case I'll accept some links that didn't pop up in my Google search, but until then I have to assume you were out there engaging in some way in order to get any of them to want to assault you regardless of why. Your whole tone also seems to ignore the fact that I condemned what happened as well being defensive at being called a Nazi even though no one has done so. Maybe that was what the Antifa said that set you off and thus got you to engage them, or it could be any number of other reasons but right now I have no reason to assume a gang of them just picked you at random to assault if you were doing nothing to anyone and remaining away from the protests.

Complaints against Antifa as opposed to White Nationalists strike me as a doctor concerned over a hangnail when the patient has a sucking chest wound.

[InformationGeek]

Wow. Just wow.

Just before signing the 9/11 victims compensation bill, Trump jokes with the first responders and their families that the stage may not hold all of them but that if it collapses they "are not falling very far"

Also, let's follow that up with a big lie.

Trump claims without evidence to an audience that includes 9/11 first responders: "I was down there [at Ground Zero] also, but I'm not considering myself a first responder, but I was down there. I spent a lot of time down there with you."

[Michael Watkins]

saying that (if it's a lie) could actually damage his rep.

[Tuck]

saying that (if it's a lie) could actually damage his rep.

I think you grossly underestimate the pretzel his supporters are willing to twist themselves into.

If he said he could heal people by laying hands on them, the convoluted explanations "proving" it would come real fast.

[shooshoomanjoe]

Apparently one of the CA shooters was another far right terrorist.

Soon after, he posted a picture with a caption that told followers to read a 19th-century, proto-fascist book. The book, which is repeatedly recommended alongside works by Hitler and other fasicsts on forums like 8chan, is full of anti-Semitic, sexist and white supremacist ideology. The book glorifies “Aryan” men, condemns inter-marriage between races and defends violence based on bogus eugenicist tropes.

[worstblogever]

Wow. Just wow.



Also, let's follow that up with a big lie.

saying that (if it's a lie) could actually damage his rep.

Just a reminder, Trump was on cable TV on 9/11 to brag about how with the Twin Towers down, he then had the tallest building in Manhattan.

Just shy of 3,000 people were killed in a terror attack, and the motherf***er was thrilled to have moved up the list for big buildings to overcompensate for smaller body parts.

[aja_christopher]

I absolutely did not counter protest anything. I have no idea why you'd assume something like that... There are plenty of stories about the Antifa violence before the last day of the festival was canceled, mostly chronicled on metal websites from people who were actually there, to be fair. Here's a link to an extremely left-leaning metal website where even they had trouble excusing the behavior: https://www.metalsucks.net/2016/11/2...o-be-canceled/ You can, of course, claim that the accounts of virtually all of the concert-goers are lies, but you'd be wrong. Hell, look for 'antifa Messe des Morts' in YouTube and you'll find videos of them throwing smoke grenades and incendiary devices, even their own video where they brag about it, claiming that they were attacked by police while the video clearly shows them armed with incendiary devices which were thrown at the cops. They were completely nuts and out of control. And let me again say that this was over one band in a multiple day festival which, as far as I can tell, doesn't even talk about nazi shit in their music.

Again, not saying I condone violence but the easiest way to avoid conflicts with Antifa is to steer clear of both fascism and Nazism.

-----
"Montreal: Black Metal Festival Shut Down By Antifa Over Nazi Band"

"A Black Metal music festival was shut down on Saturday after dozens of antifa showed up to protest because a band with connections to Nazism was scheduled to perform.

Tensions were raised when the Polish band Graveland was scheduled to perform as part of the festival Saturday night. The band’s lead singer Robert “Rob Darken” Fudali has been open about his National Socialist views in his career and the band was noted in a 1999 article by the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) as one band that has joined Nazi “skinhead” culture with Black Metal. In 2008 four of Graveland’s albums were outlawed in Germany as “unsafe for youth”. The Montreal crew of Red and Anarchist Skinheads (RASH) were among those who protested the show.

An anti-fascist alert sent to the Montreal Gazette said Martin Marcotte, the head of Sepulchral Productions, has organized several concerts of extreme-right groups, and “doesn’t seem to want to change his habits.”

“A band with racist and anti-Semitic ideas has no place in Montreal,” Karine Fortier wrote in the alert. “Montreal must remain a safe place for everyone and where racist people who think they have an opening to express their discriminatory ideas must meet with resistance.”

Marcotte denied the charge or far right/Nazi ties to either his festival or Graveland, noting in a statement that Fudali held “distressing” views but they were in the past, and that bands invited in the past featured Asian and Black musicians. Fudali himself noted an October post on the band’s website acknowledging that there were pictures of him and members of the now-defunct Polish Nazi band Honor, but they were taken in 2001 and the band has not political affiliations. “They have nothing to do with politics, and they are not reflecting my political view, either," the post read. “Graveland is not an NSBM band and never was!”

https://itsgoingdown.org/montreal-bl...ifa-nazi-band/

-----
"Graveland is associated with the National Socialist black metal (NSBM) scene and generally seen as a National Socialist band. Darken rejects this label, however, and told Decibel magazine: "I do not think Graveland is an NSBM band. Graveland is regarded as a NSBM band because of my political convictions, [which] most people would call extreme right-wing, National Socialist convictions".

[National Socialist black metal (also known as NSBM, Aryan black metal or Neo-Nazi black metal) is a political philosophy within black metal music that promotes Nazism or similar ideologies. NSBM artists typically combine neo-Nazi ideology with ethnic European paganism and opposition to "foreign" religions such as Christianity, Islam and Judaism.]

In November 2016, anti-fascists held a protest against Graveland's planned show at the Messe des Morts metal festival in Montreal. It was to have been Graveland's first show in North America. The protesters clashed with police, and the festival had to be cut short for security reasons."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graveland

[Gray Lensman]

Do Harris just outlined her “student debt relief” and “Medicare for All” proposals. Yeah she moved way down my list. Doesn’t help that the only two good things she did in the debate she walked back after the fact. Had her as a third choice. Now she’s probably nearing Gillibrand levels for me

The thing is I doubt a serious Medicare for All proposal could pass Congress even with a Democratic supermajority. Medical insurers will unleash the lobbyists and campaign cash and it would go down in flames. Better to expand the public option and squeeze out the profiteers later. I'd rather have the political capital spent reining in the drug companies - it would have a huge effect, and might even get insurers on board to help out of their own self interest.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Wow. Just wow.



Also, let's follow that up with a big lie.

Not surprised in the slightest. Trump is an unconscionable sociopath who’ll say ANYTHING if he thinks it’ll get a rise out of his brainless followers whom, by the way, have no problem with the endless lies he spews.

Apparently one of the CA shooters was another far right terrorist.

Hmm! No wonder Trump was so quick to pivot from the Gilroy shooting to attacking Al Sharpton. He can’t afford to insult one of his many deranged right wing supporters.

[SquirrelMan]

What should the cops have done?

Like, get a towel?