All Purpose News and Politics Thread Part IV: The Center Cannot Hold

[PaulBullion]

NRA darling and GOP friend with benefits, Maria Butina, was sentenced to 18 months today for "conspiring to act as a foreign agent."

[InformationGeek]

And Trump talks about his "very fine people" comment.

Trump was asked to clarify his remarks from 2017 suggesting that there were "very fine people on both sides" in Charlottesville: “I was talking about people that went because they felt very strongly about the monument to Robert E. Lee, a great general.”

[ZombieHavoc]

Look if Biden or Booker get chosen, yes, I would suggest voting for them over Trump, but defeating Trumpism is not going to accomplish in one election cycle, Trumpism will be the GOP's ideology for the foreseeable future.

A weak approach will not defeat people like Trump or McConnell.

As long as people drop the ridiculous "...or bust" about their candidates. Once Bernie announced, I knew it was going to be 2016 all over, and watching people's reactions from either wing proved my point. Biden has put the final nail in.

Watching the Bernie and Biden people be shitty to eachother online, while kinda funny, is really depressing. It feels like these two guys being in there, and likely being the heavy hitters at the end of the primary season, is just giving Trump another win. Add Trump, and we've got the three old dudes from 2016 back at the same ****.

[wjowski]

Yes. Getting Trump out of the White House is the most important thing. We can have a civil debate over whom the best Democratic candidate is, but let's not, as President Obama said, turn this into a circular firing squad.

I'd argue the most important thing is taking back the Senate. ...And tightening our hold over the House and governerers' mansions.

[ZombieHavoc]

I'd argue the most important thing is taking back the Senate. ...And tightening our hold over the House and governerers' mansions.

Nah getting Trump out is the most important.

I just wanna get real petty on social media.

[PaulBullion]

Let's talk about people with decency for a change.

Those 3 churches that were burned down by a racist raised $90,000.
Hillary Clinton quietly donated enough to make it $2 million.

[The Overlord]

As long as people drop the ridiculous "...or bust" about their candidates. Once Bernie announced, I knew it was going to be 2016 all over, and watching people's reactions from either wing proved my point. Biden has put the final nail in.

Watching the Bernie and Biden people be shitty to eachother online, while kinda funny, is really depressing. It feels like these two guys being in there, and likely being the heavy hitters at the end of the primary season, is just giving Trump another win. Add Trump, and we've got the three old dudes from 2016 back at the same ****.

That's because the debates from 2016 have not been settled. You can say you want to defeat Trump, but can you argue which method would achieve that, a left wing appoarch or a centerist appoarch? I think the left wing method would be a superior one in order to win and if centerism failed to win in 2016, why would it win in 2020? Insanity is doing the same thing over again and expecting different results.

Can you answer this question, why did Trumpism grow like a parasite during the Obama era? To me just trying to turn back the clock to the Obama era, does not address the things that created Trumpism.

Lets say Biden becomes President, then what? Everyone goes back to sleep until Trumpism comes back, a million times more powerful. Defeating Trump and not defeating Trumpism is a half measure.

So yes, vote for Biden over Trump, but if Biden refuses to change things, be ready to face someone worse then Trump in short order.

[Dalak]

That's because the debates from 2016 have not been settled. You can say you want to defeat Trump, but you can argue which method would achieve that, a left wing appoarch or a centerist appoarch? I think the left wing method would be a superior one in order to win and if centerism failed to win in 2016, why would it win in 2020? Insanity is doing the same thing over again and expecting different results.

Can you answer this question, why did Trumpism grow like a parasite during the Obama era? To me just trying to turn back the clock to the Obama era, does not address the things that created Trumpism.

Lets say Biden becomes President, then what? Everyone goes back to sleep until Trumpism comes back, a million times more powerful. Defeating Trump and not defeating Trumpism is a half measure.

So yes, vote for Biden over Trump, but if Biden refuses to change things, be ready to face someone worse then Trump in short order.

This isn't Trumpism, it's what the Republican Party has been for over a decade now. As it is I don't see Biden sticking with the race to the end or getting the nom, but he'd still be leagues better than Trump. You can complain about which way to get rid of Trump and the hate that the GoP embody, but if anyone refuses to do so and Vote simply because they don't like who eventually gets the nomination then they are lying (To themselves or everyone else) that they support the ideas Bernie endorses.

BTW, can you name anyone worse than Trump that has the slightest chance of getting elected?

[ZombieHavoc]

That's because the debates from 2016 have not been settled. You can say you want to defeat Trump, but can you argue which method would achieve that, a left wing appoarch or a centerist appoarch? I think the left wing method would be a superior one in order to win and if centerism failed to win in 2016, why would it win in 2020? Insanity is doing the same thing over again and expecting different results.

Can you answer this question, why did Trumpism grow like a parasite during the Obama era? To me just trying to turn back the clock to the Obama era, does not address the things that created Trumpism.

Lets say Biden becomes President, then what? Everyone goes back to sleep until Trumpism comes back, a million times more powerful. Defeating Trump and not defeating Trumpism is a half measure.

So yes, vote for Biden over Trump, but if Biden refuses to change things, be ready to face someone worse then Trump in short order.

As long as you are saying vote for whoever wins the primary, then you and I are not actually arguing or disagreeing on anything.

I don't know which approach, left wing or centrist, will achieve getting Trump out. I know what policies I like and candidates I like. I've stated that Warren and Harris are my top two choices. I am all in on pretty much all of Bernie's policies, and am glad there are other candidates I like better running on them. Bernie did well in getting these things out into the ether.

My problem is just with people who won't vote if a particular candidate doesn't get the nomination. That's my only problem.

Also, we all know why Trumpism spread while Obama was president. Some people don't like to say it, but we all know.

And if you think we will be defeating Trumpism, you're nuts. That kind of ideology is burned into a large portion of this country, and has been for centuries. Legislation doesn't make that go away.

[The Overlord]

This isn't Trumpism, it's what the Republican Party has been for over a decade now. As it is I don't see Biden sticking with the race to the end or getting the nom, but he'd still be leagues better than Trump. You can complain about which way to get rid of Trump and the hate that the GoP embody, but if anyone refuses to do so and Vote simply because they don't like who eventually gets the nomination then they are lying (To themselves or everyone else) that they support the ideas Bernie endorses.

BTW, can you name anyone worse than Trump that has the slightest chance of getting elected?

Where did I say that people should not vote if Biden gets the nom? Are you going to continue to put words in my mouth? Do you think someone like Donnie Deutsch should be taken to task when he says he would not vote if Bernie got the nom?

I do not have a list of people who are worst then Trump who could become President, but people thought that Trump did not have a chance and he won. Never assume no one worst then Trump can win if the system does change, people assumed Trump could not win and he did.

If Biden wins then what? Everyone goes back to sleep and the system that created Trump gets worse? Trump being President means the system itself is sick, he would not be President in a healthy system. Defeating Trump wins a battle, but it does not win the war.

As long as you are saying vote for whoever wins the primary, then you and I are not actually arguing or disagreeing on anything.

I don't know which approach, left wing or centrist, will achieve getting Trump out. I know what policies I like and candidates I like. I've stated that Warren and Harris are my top two choices. I am all in on pretty much all of Bernie's policies, and am glad there are other candidates I like better running on them. Bernie did well in getting these things out into the ether.

My problem is just with people who won't vote if a particular candidate doesn't get the nomination. That's my only problem.

Also, we all know why Trumpism spread while Obama was president. Some people don't like to say it, but we all know.

And if you think we will be defeating Trumpism, you're nuts. That kind of ideology is burned into a large portion of this country, and has been for centuries. Legislation doesn't make that go away.

Price of freedom is vigilgance, I would rather fight Trumpism then cede to it, you not defeat it entirely, but you could score some victories and with climate change being the threat that it is, you and I will have no choice but to fight or we will all lose in a very big way.

To me saying go out and vote is not enough. In Georgia they rigged things to keep the GOP in power. Something like gerrymandering takes away the power of your vote. Doing away with gerrymandering would do a lot to make voting more important, get rid of gerrymandering and your vote does mean more. That is something you can do to make the system better.

[ZombieHavoc]

If Biden wins then what? Everyone goes back to sleep

That sounds pretty nice when you put it that way.

[PaulBullion]

That sounds pretty nice when you put it that way.

Yeah... I remember sleeping.

[Gray Lensman]

As long as people drop the ridiculous "...or bust" about their candidates. Once Bernie announced, I knew it was going to be 2016 all over, and watching people's reactions from either wing proved my point. Biden has put the final nail in.

Watching the Bernie and Biden people be shitty to eachother online, while kinda funny, is really depressing. It feels like these two guys being in there, and likely being the heavy hitters at the end of the primary season, is just giving Trump another win. Add Trump, and we've got the three old dudes from 2016 back at the same ****.

One thing with Sanders is his main theme is similar to Trump's (the system is broken) - so he pulls some similar people to him who are unlikely to line up behind anyone else, even without him to gravitate towards. Sanders has three key differences to keep in mind.

One - He is coming to his conclusions from the left. I know this is obvious, but I have to at least mention it.

Two - He is much more honest than Trump. Trump changed the system, by making the worst parts of it even worse. He drained the swamp directly into the regulatory agencies. Sanders is unlikely to appoint anyone to regulate the industries they used to work for.

However, the 'wreck the system' type people he attracts (as well as some others, but those people can be found for any candidate) see the core message and don't hear anything else, even when it comes directly out of Bernie's mouth.

Three - Sanders recognizes that the status quo is better than bad change - he did say in the last primary that either Clinton or the other guy would be better than anyone on the Republican side.

[ZombieHavoc]

To me saying go out and vote is not enough.

That's why don't just say go out and vote. I rock the vote.

[ZombieHavoc]

One thing with Sanders is his main theme is similar to Trump's (the system is broken) - so he pulls some similar people to him who are unlikely to line up behind anyone else, even without him to gravitate towards. Sanders has three key differences to keep in mind.

One - He is coming to his conclusions from the left. I know this is obvious, but I have to at least mention it.

Two - He is much more honest than Trump. Trump changed the system, by making the worst parts of it even worse. He drained the swamp directly into the regulatory agencies. Sanders is unlikely to appoint anyone to regulate the industries they used to work for.

However, the 'wreck the system' type people he attracts (as well as some others, but those people can be found for any candidate) see the core message and don't hear anything else, even when it comes directly out of Bernie's mouth.

Three - Sanders recognizes that the status quo is better than bad change - he did say in the last primary that either Clinton or the other guy would be better than anyone on the Republican side.

Right. He's definitely better than Trump.