All Purpose News and Politics Thread Part IV: The Center Cannot Hold

[Tendrin]

Are they trying to make Rudy Trump's Oliver North?

Who knows at this point.

[JCAll]

As for Stephen Miller, his Jewish background in no way shelters him. We'd have to close our eyes and ears to what he's been doing and saying for a long time now to do so, and he's hardly be the first man with a Jewish background to employ antisemitism to his own political ends.

I remember Ben Shapiro's supporters saying he couldn't support alt-right fascism because he's Jewish, only for him to start making comments about the right and wrong kind of Jews.

[Tendrin]

I remember Ben Shapiro's supporters saying he couldn't support alt-right fascism because he's Jewish, only for him to start making comments about the right and wrong kind of Jews.

It's almost like they're full of #@#@.

[Celgress]

To those thinking this is a blunder:

An impeachment inquiry is not an article of impeachment.

Trump has committed clear, impeachable offenses and the Ukraine story is extremely unsettling. No call transcript from the White House can be actually trusted and the reports are not looking great....

One has to be smart about these things. The wiser course of action for the Democratic Party is to use this as campaign fodder. If they Impeach Trump and the Senate lets him off all he'll say is "I was acquitted" because the charges were "baseless" (not factually true but technically true).

Edit - Pelosi has been around long enough to know this will backfire. She should not allow the hardliners in her party to blunder into disaster.

[Tendrin]

One has to be smart about these things. The wiser course of action for the Democratic Party is to use this as campaign fodder. If they Impeach Trump and the Senate lets him off all he'll say is "I was acquitted" because the charges were "baseless" (not factually true but technically true).

Ed

Benghazi was not intended to go anywhere. It simply kept Benghazi in the press. An inquiry, similarly, is not necessarily sending materials to Mitch McConnel for a very long time. I mean, let's look at the impeachment inquiry for Bill Clinton:

September 9, 1998
Independent Counsel Kenneth Starr releases his report to Congress. It has 11 possible grounds for impeachment. The House votes to make the 445-page report public.

October 5, 1998
The House Judiciary Committee votes to launch a congressional impeachment inquiry against President Clinton.

October 8, 1998
The House of Representatives vote for impeachment proceedings to begin against Clinton. The House judiciary committee will be given wide powers to draw up detailed charges against Mr Clinton, based on 11 allegations by the independent counsel Kenneth Starr in his report on the Monica Lewinsky affair.
October 14, 1998
The House judiciary committee chairman Henry Hyde announces the impeachment inquiry will concentrate its focus on two core charges: that Mr Clinton lied under oath and attempted to obstruct justice.

January 7, 1999
The Senate formally begins the impeachment trial of President Bill Clinton on two charges of perjury and obstruction of justice.
There remains complete disagreement on the procedure that will follow. A private senators meeting to debate the unresolved argument about whether witnesses - and if so who and how many - should be called is cancelled.

Somehow, I don't think the Democrats will be moving that fast.

[Celgress]

Benghazi was not intended to go anywhere. It simply kept Benghazi in the press. An inquiry, similarly, is not necessarily sending materials to Mitch McConnel for a very long time.

When they did the same thing to Bill Clinton his poll numbers went up by a large degree. This is political idiocy and will result in failure, mark my words.

Edit - On social media, the Alt-Right is already having a field day. They are happy with this development. Many are floating the idea they can use this to put Joe Biden and his son on trial, no joke (just look around).

[numberthirty]

When they did the same thing to Bill Clinton his poll numbers went up by a large degree. This is political idiocy and will result in failure, mark my words.

More or less failure than showing General Election voters that you are the political equivalent of a doormat?

[Tendrin]

When they did the same thing to Bill Clinton his poll numbers went up by a large degree. This is political idiocy and will result in failure, mark my words.

I think the situations are /vastly/ different. While Trump's squishier members of his base might 'rail against Democratic overreach', he is not personally likable and lacks Bill's ability to charm, nor does it help matters that Republicans were largely being seen as guilty of the same sorts of offenses they were hunting Bill Clinton over, as several were caught by no less a figure than Larry Flynt doing just that.

Anyway, an inquiry is not an article of impeachment and I think pretending that this will bear out the same is a faulty assumption.

[Celgress]

More or less failure than showing General Election voters that you are the political equivalent of a doormat?

No, just say we can't impeach because the Senate won't convict. Say if you want clear government vote Democrat. That is the winning strategy.

[Tendrin]

No, just say we can't impeach because the Senate won't convict. Say if you want clear government vote Democrat. That is the winning strategy.

Who knew Mitch McConnel was the Speaker of the House /and/ the Senate Majority leader?

[Celgress]

...Anyway, an inquiry is not an article of impeachment and I think pretending that this will bear out the same is a faulty assumption.

Don't you see the trap? The Republicans will say "oh, they are just stalling. If you think Trump is guilty of a crime bring forth the articles". Watch by spring or even winter this will happen. The best course of action would be to continue as usual and not change the language used.

Edit - Meaning keep the investigations going as they have been.

[Celgress]

Who knew Mitch McConnel was the Speaker of the House /and/ the Senate Majority leader?

Campaign to get back the Senate and Presidency that's what they need to do not float a phony impeachment that will never happen (we all know Trump will never be impeached with divided government). I swear, no one learned a damn thing from Bill Clinton's impeachment.

[Tendrin]

Don't you see the trap? The Republicans will say "oh, they are just stalling. If you think Trump is guilty of a crime bring forth the articles". Watch by spring or even winter this will happen. The best course of action would be to continue as usual and not change the language used.

Edit - Meaning keep the investigations going as they have been.

And on the other hand, silence is consent. If the Democrats /really/ believed that Trump was engaged in dangerous criminality that jeapordizes are institutions, why don't they just say so and move forward with impeachment? Clearly, they're just 'playing politics',

You can't worry about what the Republicans are going to say or do. They're always going to operate in bad faith with whatever argument they think they will work at the time. Meanwhile, Trump's criminality would remain effectively unchecked. I mean, the guy, based on the whistleblower's complaint, seems to have attempted to withhold foreign aid to a nation in an attempt to force them to interfere in our own elections. You can't act like the next election will be absent those forces, nor that the argument you're demanding that Democrats make will somehow be undermined by them /doing their frigging job to hold the president accountable/.

[numberthirty]

No, just say we can't impeach because the Senate won't convict. Say if you want clear government vote Democrat. That is the winning strategy.

Going to have to politely disagree there.

What that actually amounts to is a "Might Lose" strategy. Same as actually showing voters you don't intend on looking the other way if it might be in your political career's best interest.

[Celgress]

And on the other hand, silence is consent. If the Democrats /really/ believed that Trump was engaged in dangerous criminality that jeapordizes are institutions, why don't they just say so and move forward with impeachment? Clearly, they're just 'playing politics',

You can't worry about what the Republicans are going to say or do. They're always going to operate in bad faith with whatever argument they think they will work at the time.

I'm not worried about the Republicans I'm worried Trump will use this to gain enough support to win a second term and the Dems might even lose the House.