All Purpose News and Politics Thread Part IV: The Center Cannot Hold

[Tami]

No, just say we can't impeach because the Senate won't convict. Say if you want clear government vote Democrat. That is the winning strategy.

If the House votes to Impeach.....

a) The impeachment could make Democrats and Independents, and maybe some Republicans, more eager to vote him out of office
b) If Trump wins reelection, and the Democrats take control of the Senate as well as keeping control of the House, the Impeachment doesn't expire. The Senate can complete the Impeachment process, removing him from office.

Odds are good one of these scenarios will happen.

[Celgress]

Going to have to politely disagree there.

What that actually amounts to is a "Might Lose" strategy. Same as actually showing voters you don't intend on looking the other way if it might be in your political career's best interest.

I think you are dead wrong. The best thing to have done was to keep the investigation at a low level so Trump's base would be suppressed. In either case, time will tell.

[Celgress]

If the House votes to Impeach.....

a) The impeachment could make Democrats and Independents, and maybe some Republicans, more eager to vote him out of office
b) If Trump wins reelection, and the Democrats take control of the Senate as well as keeping control of the House, the Impeachment doesn't expire. The Senate can complete the Impeachment process, removing him from office.

Odds are good one of these scenarios will happen.

I'm so confident this will backfire I'll bet you money if you want?

Edit - Word of warning before you do. I've correctly predicted the outcome of every national election for twenty-five years.

[numberthirty]

I'm not worried about the Republicans I'm worried Trump will use this to gain enough support to win a second term and the Dems might even lose the House.

You're talking like that is not a likely potential outcome of sitting on your hands while this sort of thing is happening.

Never mind if it keeps on happening because you are too busy looking out for number one.

[Theleviathan]

I'm so confident this will backfire I'll bet you money if you want?

Edit - Word of warning before you do. I've correctly predicted the outcome of every national election for twenty-five years.

I too think there is a ton of political danger in this. The fact that Moscow Mitch is allowing parts of this through the Senate should be a red flag for people.

Frankly, I think Trump knows he'll skate on this thanks to the Senate and he wants this pissing match to distract from a fading economy and a host of other problems.

[Celgress]

You're talking like that is not a likely potential outcome of sitting on your hands while this sort of thing is happening.

Never mind if it keeps on happening because you are too busy looking out for number one.

I think it is less risky than giving Trump what he'll claim is a "win".

Edit - Do you know what event made Hitler into a truly national figure in Germany?

[Tendrin]

I too think there is a ton of political danger in this. The fact that Moscow Mitch is allowing parts of this through the Senate should be a red flag for people.

Frankly, I think Trump knows he'll skate on this thanks to the Senate and he wants this pissing match to distract from a fading economy and a host of other problems.

I agree that its dangerous -- but it was /already/ dangerous. And I think people are underestimating what Trump was already doing and capable of doing from his current position to screw with the elections.

Edit: as for McConnell: They're probably expecting Bob Barr to do what he does best: protect the president.

[numberthirty]

I think it is less risky than giving Trump what he'll claim is a "win".

Edit - Do you know what event made Hitler into a truly national figure in Germany?

Politely, I'm just about certain that whatever event you believe it was is all but a non-issue in the scenario that is currently unfolding.

As for "Less Risky", you're admitting both are a risk.

[Celgress]

Food for thought with Republican control of the Senate and obstruction tactics in general -

Beer Hall Putsch Munich, Germany 1923 -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_H...ial_and_prison

"Hitler used the trial as an opportunity to spread his ideas by giving speeches to the court room. The event was extensively covered in the newspapers the next day. The judges were impressed (Presiding Judge Neithardt was inclined to favouritism towards the defendants prior to the trial), and as a result, Hitler served a little over eight months and was fined 500 Reichsmarks.[4] Due to his story that he was present by accident, an explanation he had also used in the Kapp Putsch..."

[Celgress]

Politely, I'm just about certain that whatever event you believe it was is all but a non-issue in the scenario that is currently unfolding.

As for "Less Risky", you're admitting both are a risk.

You'd be wrong. It was a criminal trial (see my previous post) in which some of the judges were Nazis so they let Hitler & co turn the proceedings into a sideshow and "put the system on trial". Hitler & co. used the spotlight to paint themselves as victims and dupe a large portion of the public.

[Theleviathan]

I agree that its dangerous -- but it was /already/ dangerous. And I think people are underestimating what Trump was already doing and capable of doing from his current position to screw with the elections.

Edit: as for McConnell: They're probably expecting Bob Barr to do what he does best: protect the president.

True, but his "witch hunt" nonsense is galvanizing. I can't shake that he wants this to happen and that, almost by itself, is enough to make me wonder if there was a better alternative.

[numberthirty]

You'd be wrong. It was a criminal trial (see my previous post) in which some of the judges were Nazis so they let Hitler & co turn the proceedings into a sideshow and "put the system on trial". Hitler & co. used the spotlight to paint themselves as victims and dupe a large portion of the public.

If you believe they are even roughly equivalent, you would most likely be wrong.

You'd have to rule out the potential General Election downside to even entertain such an idea.

[Celgress]

True, but his "witch hunt" nonsense is galvanizing. I can't shake that he wants this to happen and that, almost by itself, is enough to make me wonder if there was a better alternative.

This is my fear as well. Dictators are all the same because they use similar tactics and this reminds me of key movements in many of them achieving absolute power (not just Hitler) by way of forcing a crisis (or a chain of crisis).

[Celgress]

If you believe they are even roughly equivalent, you would most likely be wrong.

You'd have to rule out the potential General Election downside to even entertain such an idea.

I don't think I am. The Nazis used this event to great effect to win elections by galvanizing and growing their base.

Edit - It was the first in a series of crisis they skillfully exploited which they usually created.

[numberthirty]

I don't think I am. The Nazis used this event to great effect to win elections by galvanizing and growing their base.

Edit - It was the first in a series of crisis they skillfully exploited which they usually created.

You are talking like that is a foregone conclusion.

At best, it's up in the air.