All Purpose News and Politics Thread Part IV: The Center Cannot Hold

[Celgress]

You are talking like that is a foregone conclusion.

At best, it's up in the air.

True, I'm simply concerned because history provides us with so many terrible examples.

I've been deeply worried about the threat Trump and his movement pose to democracy since back in 2015. No one elsewhere I worked with (at a major university) took Trump seriously back then. They told me I was being an "alarmist".

[numberthirty]

True, I'm simply concerned because history provides us with so many terrible examples.

I've been deeply worried about the threat Trump and his movement pose to democracy since back in 2015. No one elsewhere I worked (at a major university) took Trump seriously back then.

Stop, and take a minute to think about those examples.

Did they have last year's elections in the run up to them?

[Celgress]

Stop, and take a minute to think about those examples.

Did they have last year's elections in the run up to them?

I have, a lot.

I don't understand your question. Could you rephrase it?

[numberthirty]

I have, a lot.

I don't understand your question. Could you rephrase it?

Put simply...

Did a group of voters elect an opposition party that was running on being a more "By The Books..." political check on whoever was in the driver's seat in your examples during the run up to said examples?

[Celgress]

Put simply...

Did a group of voters elect an opposition party that was running on being a more "By The Books..." political check on whoever was in the driver's seat in your examples?

The Nazis, for example, did suffer setbacks in elections before they gained absolute power in 1933, so yes. Plus, the Nazis never won a clear national majority (like Trump with the popular vote) before they abolished elections.

Anyhow, I need a rest. It has been interesting.

[Tendrin]

Josh Marshall from Talking Points Memo on the necessity of impeachment:

It’s long been clear that if the President is driven from office it will only be by the voters in November 2020. Trump has overseen and catalyzed a decisive pivot by the GOP toward authoritarian rule and illiberal politics. Trump will always have 30-something Republican senators who will maintain him in office no matter what crimes he commits or how he violates his oath of office. But we’ve now reached an impasse, a critical juncture at which the House of Representatives, controlled by a party that still supports the rule of law, has no choice but to dramatically intensify its oversight efforts up to and including voting on articles of impeachment against the President. The very premise of democratic government and the rule of law is under active attack by a lawless President.

President Trump came to power through corrupt means. He has systematically violated his oath of office since becoming President. He is now actively plotting to subvert the 2020 election using his powers as commander-in-chief of the armed forces and head of state to coerce a desperate ally to intervene in the 2020 election on his behalf. Such an abuse of power is so total and so grave that any equivocation in branding it criminal and unacceptable in the American system simply cannot be justified. It is all the more so since it is not retrospective. Nor does it turn on mere pecuniary corruption. It is a conspiracy to subvert the American people’s one chance to end his tenure in office. In other words, it is an attack on the one failsafe in the constitutional system: facing voters in a free and fair election.
Critics of the House Democratic leadership have greatly underestimated the limitations on congressional power with an executive who simply rejects the entire concept of legitimate congressional oversight. Congress has no army or police. It relies largely on the constitution and the courts to compel some degree of good faith engagement and respect for the constitution. A flat no to any and all oversight simply means years of process in the courts and thus presidential impunity. We still don’t know the totality of what happened. Based on what we know the only proper response is to demand the President’s immediate resignation. Since he certainly won’t agree, an immediate investigation framed around the question of impeachment must be undertaken and if the facts are what they appear the President must be impeached.

Will he be removed from office in the Senate? Almost certainly not. It’s not at all clear to me that the Senate will even allow a trial. Perhaps that is a feature of this historical moment rather than a bug since President Trump should also be driven from office by the American voter. But this kind of brazen abuse of power merits the gravest form of constitutional sanction. And that is impeachment.

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog...o-be-impeached

For the record, I broadly agree with him.

[Mister Mets]

And here's an article noting that Stephen Miller uses the term "globalists" as well as "cosmopolitan" as coded rhetoric far back as 2017. Here's one from 2018.

You may now take that weak sauce elsewhere.

This seems to be a way of phrasing criticism of an approach to the world as antisemitic and illegitimate.

Whether you agree with former British prime minister Teresea May when she said “If you believe you are a citizen of the world, you are a citizen of nowhere” one can be in favor of nations without having an objection to the existence of the Jewish people. It's also an ugly slur against a particular Jewish person. If mistaken about the heart of a political opponent, one is a toxic combination of obnoxious and wrong and that's a situation we should always strive to avoid.

[Tendrin]

I'm pretty comfortable saying Miller is a fascist who is fine with employing anti-Semitic tropes.

He's also a white nationalist.

[aja_christopher]

This seems to be a way of phrasing criticism of an approach to the world as antisemitic and illegitimate.

Whether you agree with former British prime minister Teresea May when she said “If you believe you are a citizen of the world, you are a citizen of nowhere” one can be in favor of nations without having an objection to the existence of the Jewish people. It's also an ugly slur against a particular Jewish person. If mistaken about the heart of a political opponent, one is a toxic combination of obnoxious and wrong and that's a situation we should always strive to avoid.

What we should strive to avoid is supporting a political party that we know traffics in racism, homophobia, and lies while trying to claim the moral high ground.

Barring that, we should accept that we shouldn't really be taken seriously when trying to do so.

[Malvolio]

Josh Marshall from Talking Points Memo on the necessity of impeachment:






https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog...o-be-impeached

For the record, I broadly agree with him.

Impeachment was not meant to be a non-binding statement. It was meant to be a process to remove from office someone who has committed crimes. And just as with any prosecutor, you don't begin proceedings until you feel you have a good chance of getting a conviction.

[kidfresh512]

Impeachment was not meant to be a non-binding statement. It was meant to be a process to remove from office someone who has committed crimes. And just as with any prosecutor, you don't begin proceedings until you feel you have a good chance of getting a conviction.

True but in this case the only reason people are saying there will never be a conviction is that the GOP has proven they are lock step in protecting trump. That no matter what evidence is presented they will not participate in a fair process to argue the facts.

In a normal legal process you could move the venue of the case to somewhere fairer if there was such a strong conflict. Here the only solution is to elect Democrats who don't bow down to trump. So it isn't entirely accurate to use the legal proceedings argument.

Impeachment is largely political for this reason alone.

On another note just to show some of the DNC mailers that came out after the announcement:

Beto's camp wrote:

I am grateful to Speaker Pelosi for opening an impeachment inquiry into President Trump.
For more than two years, even as I was running for Senate in Texas, I have been clear that I support impeachment. We all must come to terms with what we face: a lawless president who has obstructed justice and undermined our democracy by inviting a foreign power to intervene in 2016, and who is doing it again in 2020.
This is a defining moment for our country. I believe our nation will rise to it—but only if we stop worrying about polls and start doing what’s right. Many are concerned that impeachment will further tear this country apart. I believe the opposite—that this process can be what finally begins to unite this nation once again. Because before we are anything else, we are all Americans first. And if we believe no one is above the law, if we believe our democracy is worth defending—from enemies foreign and domestic—then we must impeach President Trump.
At this defining moment, history is calling on us to do the right thing, and it is on each and every one of us to save this democracy before it’s too late.
Sincerely,
Beto


_____________________________

The DNC sent out :

Speaker Pelosi just made it official: The House is moving forward with an impeachment inquiry against Donald Trump.
Trump, by his own admission, has committed a gross abuse of power.
Congress has a responsibility to thoroughly investigate this matter and other wrongdoings. Anything less would amount to abandoning its constitutional responsibility to serve as a check on the executive branch.
We urgently need EVERY Democrat to show they stand with Speaker Pelosi and House Democrats as they pursue accountability and justice.
__________________________________________________ _______

I think both are fair in terms of explaining. But, they have to keep up educating the public in general and manage expectations as it progresses. Don't let the media hype it up into something its not. Don't let people expect to see trump walking out of the white house any other way than voting him out.

[worstblogever]

This seems to be a way of phrasing criticism of an approach to the world as antisemitic and illegitimate.

Whether you agree with former British prime minister Teresea May when she said “If you believe you are a citizen of the world, you are a citizen of nowhere” one can be in favor of nations without having an objection to the existence of the Jewish people. It's also an ugly slur against a particular Jewish person. If mistaken about the heart of a political opponent, one is a toxic combination of obnoxious and wrong and that's a situation we should always strive to avoid.

And you're proving one of my current points about the modern Republican Party.

You're defending a white nationalist. Repeatedly. The one who most strongly pushes for children to be locked in cages.

I'll understand if you don't want to look directly in a mirror for a while.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Trump’s Ukraine Explanations Are All Over The Map As House Gears Up For Impeachment

Trump has said he both did and did not talk about withholding aid to the nation, and did and did not ask them to investigate Joe Biden. See below....

Withholding $400 million in U.S. aid;
Not withholding aid, actually;
Ukraine needing to investigate Trump’s leading Democratic opponent;
Ukraine needing to crack down on corruption;
Europe having to pay more;
He can’t say, but it was perfect;
All of the above.

Trump is like Indiana Jones, making up shit as he goes. Meanwhile....

**********

Trump Lashes Out On Twitter In Response To Impeachment Inquiry Announcement

The president tweeted a string of angry messages after Nancy Pelosi announced a full impeachment inquiry in response to his call with Ukraine’s president. Lashing out like the angry man-child he is. What a putz!

**********

Rudy Giuliani Has Another Wild Night With Screaming Match On Live TV

The former New York City mayor claimed he was working on behalf of the State Department when he contacted Ukraine. You gotta wonder how long Trump sticks by Rantin' Rudy after his latest meltdown.

**********

Chuck Todd Torches GOP Senator Over Biden Claims: ‘Don’t Gaslight Us’

The MSNBC anchor slammed Sen. John Kennedy’s repeated calls for a probe of Joe Biden as the House prepares for impeachment proceedings against Trump. Good job by Todd to prevent that turd from twisting the issue.

**********

Colbert Audience Goes Wild: Trump Impeachment Inquiry Gets 40-Second Ovation

The “Late Show” host broke the news of Nancy Pelosi’s announcement of an official inquiry to his audience — which absolutely loved it. I'm guessing Trump won't like that. Heh!

[worstblogever]

Trump is like Indiana Jones, making up shit as he goes. Meanwhile....

I strongly disagree. Indiana Jones was far more critical and antagonistic of the Nazis when asked to speak and act against their interests.

[Tendrin]

I strongly disagree. Indiana Jones was far more critical and antagonistic of the Nazis when asked to speak and act against their interests.

Where's that damn like button.