All Purpose News and Politics Thread Part IV: The Center Cannot Hold

[Mecegirl]

I'm not giving any polls attention till the first rounds of debate...I got enough on my brain than to worry about numbers that may not mean diddly in a few months.

[Xheight]

We will see, the problem is Clinton ran as a pragmatic centrist against Trump and lost. Clinton was supposed to be the safe bet and she lost. ''Centerism'' is not always a safe bet. I think Biden's policy record is bad enough, that could be a liability for him and Bernie being ''too old'' argument falls away given how old Biden is and all those arguments about Sanders being ''insensitive'' or ''clumsy with words'', falls away when Biden is far worse on that score. If people are complaining I using ''What aboutism'' too bad, those are the 2 front runners. This why I think these attacks against Bernie were made in bad faith, it's being pushed by people who maintain the same failed status quo.

I think centerism has failed, if it had succeeded, then Clinton would have been President. It seems like people want to still pretend its 1992 or something.

It is however odd if nothing else to have a supposed Center like H.C. fail in garnering working class and african american voters in standout numbers. I don't see that as being particularly radical but I could be wrong as the only real motivator might someone "New" and that granted is out on the left side of the party.

[SquirrelMan]

We will see, the problem is Clinton ran as a pragmatic centrist against Trump and lost. Clinton was supposed to be the safe bet and she lost. ''Centerism'' is not always a safe bet. I think Biden's policy record is bad enough, that could be a liability for him and Bernie being ''too old'' argument falls away given how old Biden is and all those arguments about Sanders being ''insensitive'' or ''clumsy with words'', falls away when Biden is far worse on that score. If people are complaining I using ''What aboutism'' too bad, those are the 2 front runners. This why I think these attacks against Bernie were made in bad faith, it's being pushed by people who maintain the same failed status quo.

I think centerism has failed, if it had succeeded, then Clinton would have been President. It seems like people want to still pretend its 1992 or something.

Hillary Clinton's strikingly progressive campaign - The Boston Globe

Many people called hers the most progressive platform, ever.
She also tackled issues like white privilege, when the nation arguable wasn't ready for it yet.
Who but Sanders voters considered her campaign as "centrist"?

[Powerboy]

It is however odd if nothing else to have a supposed Center like H.C. fail in garnering working class and african american voters in standout numbers. I don't see that as being particularly radical but I could be wrong as the only real motivator might someone "New" and that granted is out on the left side of the party.

I don't think people perceive HC as a centerist though. They perceive her as far left and add the factors that she's a woman and that even people in the center often believe the Republican propaganda about her.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

I'm not giving any polls attention till the first rounds of debate...I got enough on my brain than to worry about numbers that may not mean diddly in a few months.

BINGO! Early poll numbers don't mean jack **** right now. For all we know, Mayor Pete could be the frontrunner by the time fall rolls around while Biden and Sanders are bringing up the rear. Short and sweet: Nobody knows a goddamn thing about what might happen in this campaign.

[SquirrelMan]

Mitch McConnell Signs Shirt Joking About Merrick Garland’s Death

This is the thread where we discuss shirts, correct?

[Xheight]

I don't think people perceive HC as a centerist though. They perceive her as far left and add the factors that she's a woman and that even people in the center often believe the Republican propaganda about her.

Absolutely a perception issue but the factor that stuck to her was being insincere. A careerist with a chinese menu of policies to win votes was the wiff that came off of her rightly or wrongly.

[mogwen]

I have a thought. I'm french and from where I am, what I see is that with the conservatives complicity, there's no reason for Trump not to cheat the next election. He's not taken accountable of anything. Maybe the US are already screwed beyond repair, the guy turned your own system against you.

[Mister Mets]

A Quiinipiac poll confirms Biden's lead and Bernie's collapse.

Biden is in first place with 38 percent.
Warren is in second place with 12 percent.

https://www.courant.com/politics/cap...outputType=amp

[Gray Lensman]

A Quiinipiac poll confirms Biden's lead and Bernie's collapse.

Biden is in first place with 38 percent.
Warren is in second place with 12 percent.

https://www.courant.com/politics/cap...outputType=amp

I think Bernie lost some support with his idea of letting people in prison vote. Letting released prisoners vote after probation/parole is complete has a lot of support, letting people who haven't yet finished their sentences has notably less. Slate did an piece on it where the writer's final opinion was that pushing the further stance will likely only collapse support for the popular one.

[The Overlord]

Hillary Clinton's strikingly progressive campaign - The Boston Globe

Many people called hers the most progressive platform, ever.
She also tackled issues like white privilege, when the nation arguable wasn't ready for it yet.
Who but Sanders voters considered her campaign as "centrist"?

Except people see her as someone who would say open thing and do another thing that power and really how ''progressive'' was her platform?

http://www.sevenbowie.com/2015/10/hi...s-center-left/

Is her support of wars like Iraq progressive? She supported the war in Libya and now that country is in chaos. She seems like another hawk who will want to waste a bunch of money on wars that do not help American people.

How is she is a follower of neoliberal economics? Seems like it. She seemed to oppose raising caps on Social Security. Doesn't seem like she wants to bring back Glass-Steagall and she and her husband undermined left wing economic policies back in the 90s. When Trump attacked NAFTA, did she do anything? Did she defend NAFTA, did she attack NAFTA in a different way or simply agree with criticize of NAFTA and come up with policies to fix it? I do not think she did anything about Trump's attacks on NAFTA, because she did not want anyone to attack her 90s era neoliberal economic policies.

Bernie opposed the death penalty back in 2008, while Clinton supported it, so sorry if I wouldn't trust her if she flipped on that issue.

Hillary Clinton is only a progressive due to how screwed up the political environment is in the US.

[The Overlord]

Mrs. Clinton wasn't progressive enough to some voters. One of many reasons she lost the election.

She lost the election. Get over it and move forward with your life. Vote for the next candidate in 2020

That's not the issue, the issue is who can best take on Trump, a left winger like Sanders or a centrist like Joe Biden? If Trump beat Clinton by attacking her neoliberal policies and her war hawk record, why would Biden, who has a worse record on that stuff, not get beaten by Trump in the same way?

[ZombieHavoc]

Yes, 2016 voters definitely elected the most progressive candidate. Ha. /sarcasm

Cracks me up that people point to her policies as the reason Trump won.

[mogwen]

Yes, 2016 voters definitely elected the most progressive candidate. Ha. /sarcasm

Cracks me up that people point to her policies as the reason Trump won.

The reason Trump won in 2016 is he cheated, and sorry guys, but for me that's the reason why he will win in 2020. It will be blatant, but since no one will be able to do anything about it, I think it will happen. The guy is not taken accountable of what he's done. As a french friend of the US, I really think you're fucked!

[Tuck]

The reason Trump won in 2016 is he cheated, and sorry guys, but for me that's the reason why he will win in 2020. It will be blatant, but since no one will be able to do anything about it,

The bolded is not true. The Presidential system in the US has always been tilted toward conservative power . . . but Dems know that. They've always had to adjust for it.