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  1. #46
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I could see her as maybe an E! style reporter or interview person, which isn't the bare-knuckle reporting of, say, Lois Lane.
    That's what I was thinking. MJ doesn't have to be all Lois to be a reporter. Even with this, where she's not doing crime reporting, it can still tie back in with Spider-Man. I mean, if some heroes are treated as celebrities, it would make sense Mary Jane could interview them, which could lead into a team up issue. Never mind the possible villains that start off in the more celebrity realm and such (wasn't the Hobgoblin originally a fashion designer?).

  2. #47
    Astonishing Member boots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregpersons View Post
    Did you play the Spider-Man PS4 game? What I am advocating for is to bring the 616 more in line with how May & MJ interact with Peter in the Game-Verse, because that story wove both characters in beautifully, and showed how much stronger this makes all 3 characters when they each have agency, they each have their own inner lives, and you can see why that are bonded, because despite their differences, they have deeply shared values of helping people that are expressed in distinct ways. May works at a charity; MJ wants to help as part of the 4th estate; Peter's responsibility is as a superhero. It clicks, it's refreshing, it's true to the characters and the overall spirit of the mythos.

    "The Game-Verse doesn't need to be the 616, and we have a Game-Verse comic." Yes, but it is NOT a stretch to incorporate these aspects into 616... it'd be a lot easier and more beneficial than trying to adapt in organic webshooters. We're already seeing it for Aunt May a little bit as she's perhaps looking to revive FEAST -- a good choice -- I'd like to see it with MJ.

    There are a number of ways in which Nick Spencer (or whoever) could bring it about. Two such options were thrown out, but I'd bet even more could be thought of when the vibe of the room isn't "Uh, no, change is impossible, Mary Jane would never write, everything has to remain static forever" which, thanks again for your contribution.

    I am advocating for it because I'd like to enjoy the ongoing Spider-Man comic stories as much as I enjoyed the game's story -- which received virtually universal acclaim -- and though the current ASM is pretty good, there are still some gaps in the new status quo, like what to do with MJ and Aunt May, what job Peter should have, etc.
    nah brah, gaming's not my thing. however...what works for one medium, may not necessarily work for another.

    and i get what you're advocating, don't worry. you're lucid and clear in your posts. but, people will have reservations...and that's perfectly ok.

    it's not a bad idea, i could see it come up in a writer's room, and it would be challenged in many of the ways it has been on this thread. no good idea is without a downside and you have to be able to roll with that, accept other opinions, rework your own, compromise or convince the room. blaming others for "not getting it" isn't the way i would pitch
    Last edited by boots; 04-12-2019 at 05:36 AM.
    troo fan or death

  3. #48
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    I think Mary Jane should become an astronaut. Even though there's already an astronaut in the supporting cast, and she's never displayed the desire, skills or experience to be an astronaut, she absolutely has to be an astronaut.

  4. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by gregpersons View Post
    I (somewhat) agree, I also like the traditional aspects of Mary Jane's non-girlfriend life — an actress, model, partier, entrepreneur — all of that. I like how it contrasts with Peter. And you're right that we don't really see that side of her in the PS4 game.

    Now, a blend of the two... hmm, well, that could be something!
    When Peter was dating Betty Brant, Daily Bugle reporter back in the Lee-Ditko era, their two sides didn't entirely synch, because Betty Brant didn't approve of Peter risking his life getting pictures and so on. And she dated Peter because she wanted someone normal. So it's not necessarily the case that being a reporter and so on would make the two parts of Peter's life synch together or make the reporter-girlfriend an active part of his life. Heck even in Superman, after he and Lois got married, it wasn't the case that their lives entirely synched and gelled together. Mary Jane's career did synch with Peter in many key ways. Like for instance her work as a model allowed her to pay Peter's rent and keep him from being chased out of the city, and so on. But to me MJ not entirely synching with Peter's side of things is one of the things I like about their relationship.

    Many people said that Peter and MJ getting married would make Spider-Man too settled or so on, beause married life was boring, except as James Whitbrook pointed out in io9 the opposite happened. MJ having this seasonal and unstable profession and not always being there for Peter and having difficulty to help him even if she wanted to and did her best is emotionally true you know because even in the best of marriages there are things you can't entirely share and communicate. So that was something relatable. The fact that getting married to MJ didn't change or solve Peter's problems, just like getting married doesn't by itself do that in real-life, also fulfilled "the illusion of change" in that the main engine of who Peter was and is, from his origins was maintained and carried over, contrary to what many had said.

    Peter and Mary Jane are unique in Marvel as the only major superhero/civilian marriage. Otherwise its always supers and supers: Reed/Sue, Hank and Janet, WandaVision (Thank you MCU), Luke and Jessica, Scott and Jean, Strange and Clea, Ororo/T'Challa, Rogue/Gambit, Hawkeye/Mockingbird. Peter/MJ was the only exception to Marvel's superhero community being this insular gated community who care more about and relate more within their in-group than outside (the "Just-Us League" is far more true of the Avengers than the JL based on my reading experience). And I feel keeping Spider-Man tied to that civilian world, and his partner being civilian is key to that. So I think that in a lot of respects, MJ works as a civilian or be in that side of things.

  5. #50
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    When Peter was dating Betty Brant, Daily Bugle reporter back in the Lee-Ditko era, their two sides didn't entirely synch, because Betty Brant didn't approve of Peter risking his life getting pictures and so on. And she dated Peter because she wanted someone normal. So it's not necessarily the case that being a reporter and so on would make the two parts of Peter's life synch together or make the reporter-girlfriend an active part of his life. Heck even in Superman, after he and Lois got married, it wasn't the case that their lives entirely synched and gelled together. Mary Jane's career did synch with Peter in many key ways. Like for instance her work as a model allowed her to pay Peter's rent and keep him from being chased out of the city, and so on. But to me MJ not entirely synching with Peter's side of things is one of the things I like about their relationship.
    Betty wasn't a reporter back when she dated Peter. She was still Jonah's secretary.

  6. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Betty wasn't a reporter back when she dated Peter. She was still Jonah's secretary.
    You are right.

  7. #52
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    give mj a gun
    heroine addict we love you come back

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by boots View Post
    are...are you aware you're actually just doing it again? is this a self owning of my self owning? this is the most postmodern thing i've seen all this morning.

    on the actual topic of making mj more part of peter's world for the sake of streamlining and bringing them closer together, the undesirable flipside of that is that you make peter's life smaller. the scope of his social circle shrinks as it and all his support cast are pulled into orbit the exact same space (or overlapping spaces). it becomes more a "situation" and less a real, breathing world.

    if the intention is to allow mj more agency as an independent character, i'd be more inclined to lean into the idea of her independence further, rather than pull her in more tightly.
    Not only that, giving MJ a profession that directly connects to Peter more or less "proves" that she only has worth when it relates to Peter's work and struggles which is the most anti-feminist message that you could give to a reader.

    It's one thing to have commonality. It's another to have your life revolve around a person which I feel is something that PS4 and MCU Spidey's universes both missed. It's tellingly that Peter interacted with Michelle more than he did Liz.

  9. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    give mj a gun
    She got one in Mark Millar's Marvel Knights: Spider-Man. She unloaded it on Norman at the end. Later, Peter gave her modified web-shooters in Tom Beland's Web of Romance, which she reuses in the finale of Superior.

    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    It's one thing to have commonality. It's another to have your life revolve around a person which I feel is something that PS4 and MCU Spidey's universes both missed. It's tellingly that Peter interacted with Michelle more than he did Liz.
    In the PS4, MJ is Peter's one-and-only, since obviously a game, or even a movie, isn't bound to the rules of serial melodrama you have in comics on TV, so there you can have a single relationship and so on.

    As for Peter interacting with Michelle Jones more than Liz in the MCU...I don't see that at all. Peter mainly interacts with "Ganke" throughout Homecoming. Michelle is just a background character like Tony Revolori's Flash Thompson.

  10. #55
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    Mary Jane should be a whiskey drinking hard-boiled private eye. Maybe she had a great uncle who was a detective, so she has detective genes in her DNA, which is how science works, and has secretly been honing her detective skills off panel for the past 50 years (when she wasn't busy reviewing and cataloging her favorite whiskeys, of course).

  11. #56
    Astonishing Member boots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    Mary Jane should be a whiskey drinking hard-boiled private eye. Maybe she had a great uncle who was a detective, so she has detective genes in her DNA, which is how science works, and has secretly been honing her detective skills off panel for the past 50 years (when she wasn't busy reviewing and cataloging her favorite whiskeys, of course).
    this....this is...i have no words


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  12. #57

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    who knows. might as well. Mary Jane as a student wasn't locked in to any field when she first came into the strips. However they handled it, we'll see.

  13. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypestyle View Post
    who knows. might as well. Mary Jane as a student wasn't locked in to any field when she first came into the strips. However they handled it, we'll see.
    MJ as a student was interested in acting and performing. That much was consistent. A later issue even said that she had enrolled in dramatic classes and so on, and later on she performed in Broadway or Off-Broadway or something, and she worked a lot of gigs and so on. ASM#259 and Parallel Lives said that she worked as a waitress and other jobs to make ends meet (which is where Spider-Man Trilogy gets it from).

    You could have her work in a detective agency or work with Jessica Jones or something. MJ and Carol Danvers were established as fast friends in the early issues of Ms. Marvel and Carol could put in a word for MJ as a recommendation to Jessica. The reasons for MJ and Carol Danvers being friends was that Carol Danvers was hired as a magazine writer for women's issues by Jonah, and MJ being as self-identifying feminist at that time, identified with Carol and befriended her (for added points, her conversations with Carol in those issues pass the Bechdel Test with flying colors, they talk of a bunch things, alone, of everything except men). And she now had a long stretched where she worked as PA for Tony Stark interacting with everyone from the POTUS, to the Guardians of the Galaxy (including Ben Grimm), to Riri Williams, to Infamous Iron Man (i.e. Victor von Doom when he tried the superhero thing).

    So MJ has a certain adaptability, in that you could move her in different stories. One idea for a job is that MJ works or volunteers for social work, i.e. child services and foster care, as part of which she investigates backgrounds and stuff. It's something you can connect to her own background from a broken home and teen runaway, you can use it to involve Peter and Spider-Man into a more civilian world and setting, and bring in new characters and villains (like what if a supervillain has a wife and kid with drama and so on), its consistent with MJ since she's established as having a bit of a social conscience (such as getting Peter to halt Tarantula when he hounded undocumented immigrants), and it also has a bit of an investigative component.

  14. #59
    Mighty Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    Mary Jane should be a whiskey drinking hard-boiled private eye. Maybe she had a great uncle who was a detective, so she has detective genes in her DNA, which is how science works, and has secretly been honing her detective skills off panel for the past 50 years (when she wasn't busy reviewing and cataloging her favorite whiskeys, of course).
    I’d read it lol.

    Honestly making MJ into Lois Lane worked for the PS4verse but I dunno if it’s something I need to see in the comics. I do think MJ needs to find something to do so we can see she has agency beyond just being Peter’s gf.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    Not only that, giving MJ a profession that directly connects to Peter more or less "proves" that she only has worth when it relates to Peter's work and struggles which is the most anti-feminist message that you could give to a reader.

    It's one thing to have commonality. It's another to have your life revolve around a person which I feel is something that PS4 and MCU Spidey's universes both missed. It's tellingly that Peter interacted with Michelle more than he did Liz.
    You're right, it's definitely better to have MJ be uninvolved in the story, pushed aside, and relegated to the role of crying. We wouldn't want to send the wrong message that MJ might be able to write (when have we ever seen it?) And, as we all know, making a female supporting characters stronger only weakens all women.

    Hopefully the PS4 sequel fixes this!
    Last edited by gregpersons; 04-13-2019 at 12:07 PM.

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