Should The Outsiders Be Always Associated With The Batman Franchise?

[Aahz]

Always? No, DC doesn't need every property to orbit Batman or some other "bigger" character; some things need to able to stand on their own. Batman is part of their origin, sure, but the Outsiders should be allowed to exist as it's own entity within the DC lexicon.

But I kind of doubt that the Outsiders can exist on their own (unless DC really massively pushed the book). The franchise doesn't really have a big fan base.

[Nite-Wing]

The team was founded by Batman it wouldn't exist without his involvement. Trying to pawn the name off to other characters won't work

In fact DC has experimented with the idea trying to use other characters(green arrow,nightwing, alfred,etc) and mission statements for the group but the only thing that works is Batman's recruited group of heroes who operate outside the JL's purview of justice

Batman and the Outsiders is the selling point

[Godlike13]

Well that's not necessarily true. Not that I'm advocating for it but the Outsiders with Nightwing was the longest lasting run.

[king81992]

Well that's not necessarily true. Not that I'm advocating for it but the Outsiders with Nightwing was the longest lasting run.

Wasn't that the roster with a lot of Titans characters or am I confusing it with a different series?

[Godlike13]

Wasn't that the roster with a lot of Titans characters or am I confusing it with a different series?

Not a lot, but there was Roy and eventually Starfire for bit.

[Aahz]

But that book had also barely any members of the classic Outsiders on the team (you had this wired thing with Shift/Metamorpho and Katana joined at some point in the second half of the run), and it were mostly Dick and Roy, who where carrying the book.

And the Batman lead runs were usually cut short, because of other reasons than poor sales.

[lemonpeace]

But I kind of doubt that the Outsiders can exist on their own (unless DC really massively pushed the book). The franchise doesn't really have a big fan base.

eh, no offense but I think that too often is used as an excuse with a lot of DC's properties. It's has enough brand power to function without Batman on YJ: Outsiders and they've been ramping up to Outsiders on Black Lightning for the last season, it has enough of a fanbase to show there is something there worth exploring as it's own thing. DC's constantly chaining the team to Batman is a crutch imo. For all of Marvel's faults, it does know how to take a hit (if necessary) to establish their properties without chaining it to another one; which DC's been too easily spooked to do. Batman should be a launchpad but that should be the extent of it.

[Konja7]

eh, no offense but I think that too often is used as an excuse with a lot of DC's properties. It's has enough brand power to function without Batman on YJ: Outsiders and they've been ramping up to Outsiders on Black Lightning for the last season, it has enough of a fanbase to show there is something there worth exploring as it's own thing. DC's constantly chaining the team to Batman is a crutch imo. For all of Marvel's faults, it does know how to take a hit (if necessary) to establish their properties without chaining it to another one; which DC's been too easily spooked to do. Batman should be a launchpad but that should be the extent of it.

You would use a TV cartoon that still use Young Justice as first name and Nightwing as a leader to prove that the brand Outsiders is strong. I don't see that.

Not to mention that the success in other media doesn't seem to translate in comic sales.

Outsiders without Batman (or Nightwing) had been bad sales in the past. So, it will pretty difficult DC can trust the brand on its own.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

They shouldn't but you would need a new hook to compensate for the lack of Batman's presence. Maybe the movies or the Black Lightning show could show us how and the comics could pick up if it works.

[Aahz]

eh, no offense but I think that too often is used as an excuse with a lot of DC's properties. It's has enough brand power to function without Batman on YJ: Outsiders and they've been ramping up to Outsiders on Black Lightning for the last season, it has enough of a fanbase to show there is something there worth exploring as it's own thing.

Success in other Media rarely translates into comics sales.
Just look the Marvel Netflix shows, were quite popular, but only Daredevil and Punisher sell enough books to keep their series going, and those two were already successfull before the show.

Or look at Black Panther, his movie had the biggest domestic Box Office of all the Marvel Movies, but his comic his hardly a top seller.

And an Outsiders series without a batman connection (or something that compensates for that), would probably end up with similar sales as Terrifics (which sold only 15,838 issues in February).

[skyvolt2000]

You would use a TV cartoon that still use Young Justice as first name and Nightwing as a leader to prove that the brand Outsiders is strong. I don't see that.

Not to mention that the success in other media doesn't seem to translate in comic sales.

Outsiders without Batman (or Nightwing) had been bad sales in the past. So, it will pretty difficult DC can trust the brand on its own.

We got to get to a point of comic book store don't MATTER. Everybody wants to us that excuse way too much.
Comic book stores are not the end all like some entitlement trolls on Twitter want to think it is.

Especially since some of those stores have agendas towards certain books even existing. Which is why many books are now going graphic novel route like Sex, Astro City, Goldie Vance & Motor Crush.
If you got stores who don't care for Cyborg-get ready to see low order numbers from the start.

Part of the reason success in other media does not work is because of WHO IS BEING USED.

Black Lightning has a show with his DAUGHTERS. Who have not been seen in DC for now 9 years.
Ms Martian was on Supergirl when she was MIA in comics for almost 8 years.
Most of the Young Justice kids were MIA in comics.

The BIGGEST complaint I have heard from folks is "I like so-so on so-so-where is there stuff with them in it?" Lead by folks who don't live near comic book stores or have comic book stores that are so RACIST, SEXIST, RUDE & LGBTQ unfriendly they won't go to them.

For all of Marvel's faults, it does know how to take a hit (if necessary) to establish their properties without chaining it to another one; which DC's been too easily spooked to do. Batman should be a launchpad but that should be the extent of it.

Marvel does those books for a reason. It is to get material out there in trades. So IF someone is interested in Rocket Raccoon-there is something with him as a solo. I was at a book store and there was folks looking for that solo series.

Look at trade sales. Carol, Black Panther, Ms Marvel, GOTG, Jane Foster and others are up there with Batman.

And here is some food for thought

Batman and the The Outsiders Vol. 1 Paperback – December 17, 2019
Amazon Best Sellers Rank: #126,598 in Books
#477 in DC Comics & Graphic Novels
#1691 in Superhero Comics & Graphic Novels
#29869 in Science Fiction & Fantasy (Books)
Book is not even out yet and somehow it's already being preordered as a trade.

Maybe the goal is get the book out there and stop worrying about numbers. Just get a book out there and see what happens. WHo knows maybe it might inspire the writer who CAN give you a long run in the future.

[Konja7]

And here is some food for thought

Batman and the The Outsiders Vol. 1 Paperback – December 17, 2019
Amazon Best Sellers Rank: #126,598 in Books
#477 in DC Comics & Graphic Novels
#1691 in Superhero Comics & Graphic Novels
#29869 in Science Fiction & Fantasy (Books)
Book is not even out yet and somehow it's already being preordered as a trade.

Maybe the goal is get the book out there and stop worrying about numbers. Just get a book out there and see what happens. WHo knows maybe it might inspire the writer who CAN give you a long run in the future.

I'm not sure if I understand your point in this part.

I mean is a book called "Batman and the Outsiders", it isn't surprised it will have good sales.

The discussion is if Outsiders could sell without Batman.

[Aahz]

And here is some food for thought

Batman and the The Outsiders Vol. 1 Paperback – December 17, 2019
Amazon Best Sellers Rank: #126,598 in Books
#477 in DC Comics & Graphic Novels
#1691 in Superhero Comics & Graphic Novels
#29869 in Science Fiction & Fantasy (Books)
Book is not even out yet and somehow it's already being preordered as a trade.

The thing is that we have idea, to how many sales this equates in absolute numbers. This could really be just a hand full of issues.
That seems actually quite likely since that it has drop to currently:
#817 in DC Comics & Graphic Novels
#2981 in Superhero Comics & Graphic Novels
#41818 in Science Fiction & Fantasy (Books)
And with larger sales numbers behind these Rankings, the ranks would probably be more stable.

And this incarnation of the Outsiders is more Batfamily centric than any previous incarnation. 3 out of the 5 team members are Batfamily members (previous incarnations had usually only one Batfamily member and a larger team), and they even used TEC to do a back door pilot for the book.

[John Venus]

If The Outsiders doesn't have Batman for a lead, it should have Green Arrow.

Because there aren't enough jokes about him being Green Batman. ::eyeroll::

[paulojrmam]

Isn't it true that every book, especially the less popular ones, from time to time has a big character guest-appearing, being highlighted on the cover and all? Not only to leverage sales, but also because it's a connected universe. Isn't that enough? To me it's weird that the Outsiders must have Batman on the title and not only guest-appearing sometimes. In fact, to me it would seem to be more effective that way, so they can use many different characters and not just Batman to lure readers in. Besides, team books aren't easier to sell? I mean, an Outsiders book would attract fans of each of its members.