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  1. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shellhead View Post
    Quasar was pretty powerful and resourceful, but I don't like his odds against Dormammu.
    He could always ask Eon or Epoch for help I guess.

  2. #17
    Spectacular Member
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    Well by that logic does The Doctor count? Also, Sharp's wife needs mentioning here...

  3. #18
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wjowski View Post
    I wanna ask are they just suddenly handed the cloak and slippers with a note saying "It's your problem now! -Dr. S" or do they get the same training that Stephen did?

    Although in Stark's defense, I will point out that one thing he has over guys like say, Reed Richards, is that he's flexible enough to work with magic.
    Stark is going to need tons of training just to use magical artifacts. For actual sorcery, going by how magic has been presented in the past at Marvel, he's going to need not only tons of training, but actual aptitude and massive amounts of willpower to manage it. I mean, anyone with training can use SOME magic in the Marvel universe. But there's a difference between that and 'good enough to be Someone™', just like anyone can learn to play the piano, but only a select few are real geniuses. Mordo, as an example, being one of those 'real geniuses' when it comes to sorcery, Doom being another.

    And then there's 'best all-around', which is Strange (noted by the Ancient One as possessing the greatest aptitude for sorcery that he'd ever seen, and having willpower through the ceiling).

    Stark? Is not that. Even with the same magical training Stephen had, he shouldn't match Doom or Mordo for magical oomph, much less Stephen. And without that, he's not going to bootstrap himself up to those levels with tech.

    Granted, Marvel could do one of its stupid 'we don't care how magic has been presented in the past, it's THIS way now!' and claim it's all about rote memorization of incantations and gang-signs, so Stark should be just fine. But really, he shouldn't be. Even with Tech+Sorcery, he's not Dr. Doom. And his issues aren't 'Class 100 enemies', or 'World-spanning stuff' or the like. His issues will be beings like 'Dormammu', who would find something like a weaponized Dyson sphere as 'clever, for a rodent'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanrage View Post
    Well by that logic does The Doctor count? Also, Sharp's wife needs mentioning here...
    O_O

    She wouldn't be interested in taking the job (too much trouble), but I'll let her know she has someone voting for her. ^_^
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers."
    - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move."
    - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman."
    - Pendaran

  4. #19
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    As an aside, I'm going to note that one doesn't need to have Furnace Face's level of power to take on Dormammu. One needs ENOUGH power to manage to survive against him long enough to exploit his glaring weakness (ie, his ego).

    ...sometimes that means surviving long enough for the Dorm to exploit his own weakness.

    Anyway, Stark has the brains (and cleverness, not the same thing) to get Furnace face to trip himself up. I'm just iffy on the idea that he would have the magi-tech oomph to survive long enough to do so.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers."
    - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move."
    - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman."
    - Pendaran

  5. #20

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    Totally real question: is the Dorm's ego larger than Ego the Planet?
    "So full of hate were our eyes
    That none of us could see
    Our war would yield countless dead
    But never victory
    So let us cast arms aside
    And like discard our wrath
    Thou, in faith, will keep us safe
    Whilst we find the path"

    -The Covenant Writ of Union

  6. #21
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    Totally real question: is the Dorm's ego larger than Ego the Planet?
    Litmus test.

    1. Dude has Strange at his mercy, the Earth within his grasp;
    2. Dude decides 'No, wait, I REALLY need everyone -- and I mean everyone -- to show up and watch me take him out.'
    3. Dude further decides 'Oh, and I should really give him a chance, so that people also figure I'm fair, and so forth. I mean, they know I'm not, and wtfdoIcare?, but.'
    4. Dude then summons dozens of dimensional tyrants to witness his battle with Strange.
    5. In front of said tyrants, Dude says "Okay, we'll duel. BUT...because I could simply erase you from existence, we'll instead duel with these hedgeclippersImeanthe Pincers of Power™, 'cause that gives you a chance."

    ...at this point I refer you to point #1, where the Dorm wants to beat Strange and take over the Earth dimension. That's the idea, here. That's the reason for his huge plan before this, where he empowered Mordo with enough oomph to flat-out kill Strange and the Ancient One; not to set up a duel, but so Mordo would KILL them and hand the Earth Dimension over to Furnace Face.

    And then? I repeat.

    5. In front of said tyrants, Dude says "Okay, we'll duel. BUT...because I could simply erase you from existence, we'll instead duel with the Pincers of Power, 'cause that gives you a chance.'

    Continuing.

    6. Strange says "Hey, if we duel, shouldn't you put something on the line? Like, if you lose, you will never invade the Earth Dimension?"
    7. In front of said tyrants, Dude says "Pfft, sure. Why not? It wasn't part of the stipulations and I hold all the cards, but you're not gonna win, so sure, I'll totally agree to that."

    Again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Me
    ...at this point I refer you to point #1, where the Dorm wants to beat Strange and take over the Earth dimension. That's the idea, here. That's the reason for his huge plan before this where he empowered Mordo with enough oomph to flat-out kill Strange and the Ancient One; not to set up a duel, but so Mordo would KILL them and hand the Earth Dimension over to Furnace Face.
    Contrast with.

    5. In front of said tyrants, Dude says "Okay, we'll duel. BUT...because I could simply erase you from existence, we'll instead duel with the Pincers of Power, 'cause that gives you a chance."
    6. Strange says "Hey, if we duel, shouldn't you put something on the line? Like, if you lose, you will never invade the Earth Dimension?"
    7. In front of said tyrants, Dude says "Pfft, sure. Why not? It wasn't part of the stipulations and I hold all the cards, but you're not gonna win, so sure, I'll totally agree to that."

    *checks litmus paper*

    Furnace Face has all of the Egos.
    Last edited by Sharpandpointies; 04-16-2019 at 08:14 AM.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers."
    - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move."
    - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman."
    - Pendaran

  7. #22
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Put another way, the Dorm is so darned egotistical that the Marvel Superheroes Roleplaying Game actually put in a RULE for Furnace Face (and, to a lesser extent, Mordo, who gloats even more stupidly than the Dorm given he is a being a pathetic shadow of the Dark Dimension's ruler...at least Dormammu has a reason) that if he managed to get his opponent at his mercy, the Dorm needed to make a 'Gloat Check' (I kid you not, that's what it was called) to avoid stopping with the killing and starting with the gloating. That's right, gloating; and potentially for 10-20 rounds of combat time that the opponent could use to set stuff up, prep spells, anything but obviously attack or try to escape.

    When a different COMPANY from Marvel, making up an RPG game based on the Marvel Universe, recognizes this enough to put in a darned rule about it, well...
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers."
    - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move."
    - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman."
    - Pendaran

  8. #23
    Mighty Member Shellhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    Put another way, the Dorm is so darned egotistical that the Marvel Superheroes Roleplaying Game actually put in a RULE for Furnace Face (and, to a lesser extent, Mordo, who gloats even more stupidly than the Dorm given he is a being a pathetic shadow of the Dark Dimension's ruler...at least Dormammu has a reason) that if he managed to get his opponent at his mercy, the Dorm needed to make a 'Gloat Check' (I kid you not, that's what it was called) to avoid stopping with the killing and starting with the gloating. That's right, gloating; and potentially for 10-20 rounds of combat time that the opponent could use to set stuff up, prep spells, anything but obviously attack or try to escape.

    When a different COMPANY from Marvel, making up an RPG game based on the Marvel Universe, recognizes this enough to put in a darned rule about it, well...
    While wielding the Evil Eye, Dormammu casually defeated the combined might of the Avengers and Defenders and commenced with the gloating. Then a blind Loki managed to escape captivity and throw a choke hold on the Dorm. Scarlet Witch managed to struggle partially free from quicksand and throw a hex on the Evil Eye, which hoovered up the Dorm and drove Loki mad.

  9. #24
    Mighty Member Shellhead's Avatar
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    I bet that Quasar could hold his own in the Pincer fight with the Dorm.

  10. #25
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    But not in the fingerguns fight. The Dorm can't lose that.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;"
    - Nik Hasta

    "Get off my lawn!

    ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops."

    - Sharpandpointies

    "...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics."
    -Captain Morgan

  11. #26
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shellhead View Post
    While wielding the Evil Eye, Dormammu casually defeated the combined might of the Avengers and Defenders and commenced with the gloating. Then a blind Loki managed to escape captivity and throw a choke hold on the Dorm. Scarlet Witch managed to struggle partially free from quicksand and throw a hex on the Evil Eye, which hoovered up the Dorm and drove Loki mad.
    I heard about this. It sounds ridiculous. ^_^ But the gloating part? Perfectly in-character.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shellhead View Post
    I bet that Quasar could hold his own in the Pincer fight with the Dorm.
    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    But not in the fingerguns fight. The Dorm can't lose that.
    Answer seriously with regards to gang-signs and bolts of bedevilment? Answer with college humor? Oh, the possibilities.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers."
    - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move."
    - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman."
    - Pendaran

  12. #27
    Astonishing Member The Drunkard Kid's Avatar
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    Wait, wait, wait:

    Dormammu. Forced to be Sorcerer Supreme and protect the 616 Universe in Strange's place, with the only penalty of failure or betrayal being that everyone in the multiverse will *know* that Stephen Strange is a better Sorcerer Supreme than Dormammu is.

    Failing that, how well would Illyana Rasputin do, considering that she's essentially the Sorceress Supreme of Limbo, or something along those lines?

  13. #28
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Drunkard Kid View Post
    Wait, wait, wait:

    Dormammu. Forced to be Sorcerer Supreme and protect the 616 Universe in Strange's place, with the only penalty of failure or betrayal being that everyone in the multiverse will *know* that Stephen Strange is a better Sorcerer Supreme than Dormammu is.

    Failing that, how well would Illyana Rasputin do, considering that she's essentially the Sorceress Supreme of Limbo, or something along those lines?
    The Dorm would rip himself to pieces in this situation. And he'd still screw it up, thanks to the aforementioned ego.

    Illyana would do fine, really. She'd need some level of power-boost in the 616 dimension, but that would probably be part and parcel of the job contract. She's clever, devious, powerful, and knows all of the good stuff she'd need to know. Give her the Sanctum and it's assorted fun stuff, and attune her powers to 616, and she'd be right as rain. Hell, Brother Voodoo managed to hold the job and not completely poop the blankets - Illyana is miles above that dude with no amp at all.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;"
    - Nik Hasta

    "Get off my lawn!

    ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops."

    - Sharpandpointies

    "...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics."
    -Captain Morgan

  14. #29
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Good one, Kid. I like that idea.

    I think Furnace Face would do fairly well as Sorcerer Supreme if he wasn't allowed -- by the standards of the deal -- to make the place into a dark dimension and set himself up as ruler. <-- See, without this as part of the deal, he'd just do it with the idea that yeah, he'll protect the place better with 100% control of it.

    The Dorm can be surprisingly uninterested in the personal affairs of his people; while he's not big on freedom, he doesn't tend to run around beating the citizens of the Dark Dimension with a stick or anything (he's more of an effective dictator kind of person -- no, really, look at his first few appearances). Ensure as part of the deal that the 616 Universe must stay pretty much the same (or it gets out that Stephen is 'better'), and he'll make for a pretty darned potent defender of the universe (while, no doubt, immediately working on seizing the dimensions of the people who DARE to attack the universe he's protecting...hey, nothing in the deal says he can't do that, and as Furnace Face himself might put it, "This will send a message to all of those who would assault the universe I protect!").

    There have also been some occasions where he has become quite...well, almost jaunty in his conversations with Strange. I won't say 'friendly rivalry' -- there's nothing friendly about it -- but there's more respect between Dormammu and Stephen Strange than there is between, for example, Mordo (pre-and-post his death-storyline, which was awesome and sadly ignored by the other writers) and Strange (what with Karl hating Stephen's guts and wanting to pull them out with a large hook).

    If he was interested in a break from dimensional incursions, I can totally see Furnace Face saying "Okay, sure...I'll take over from Stephen [aside: yes, The Dorm actually refers to him as 'Stephen', quite often] and show EVERYONE which of us is better! And woe betide anyone who invades this Six-One-Six dimension...who came up with that name, Uatu? Bloody Watchers. WherewasI...oh, yes, who invades this dimension, for my wrath will be terrible, and visited upon them and their entire universe!" *cough cough* "Which will become mine. But that's neither here nor there, just stay OUT."

    And lord, anyone showing up expecting Strange would be in for a hellacious surprise.

    [Furnace Face] *relaxing in chair and drinking tea* Oh, Nightmare...how nice to see you again.

    [Nightmare] Dor...mammu? Did you finally defeat Strange?

    [Furnace Face] No, Stephen is on vaykay. I'm subbing in.

    [Nightmare] wat

    [Furnace Face] *smiles* And you just invaded.

    [Nightmare] O_o
    Last edited by Sharpandpointies; 04-18-2019 at 08:23 AM.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers."
    - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move."
    - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman."
    - Pendaran

  15. #30

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    Sharp, you are a priceless treasure. ^_^

    I just woke my wife up with my laughter.
    "So full of hate were our eyes
    That none of us could see
    Our war would yield countless dead
    But never victory
    So let us cast arms aside
    And like discard our wrath
    Thou, in faith, will keep us safe
    Whilst we find the path"

    -The Covenant Writ of Union

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