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  1. #46
    Astonishing Member David Walton's Avatar
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    The scene with Tony blowing up his armor at the end of IM3 is a bit over the top, but it works if you read it as Tony trying to rediscover his genius and not rely on the same ideas with minor tweaks.

  2. #47
    Extraordinary Member Cyke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Walton View Post
    Bruce Banner and Peter Parker are the biggest departures from their comic versions IMO. Both characters lost their intensity and anti-social tendencies.
    I don't recall most versions of Peter having anti-social tendencies. On the contrary, he's always seemed incredibly conscientious of others' emotional states. That scene in the comics where he and Franklin Richards bond about both of their Uncle Bens showed a great capacity for empathy and emotional intelligence. I mean, sure, sometimes he lashes out but that's more out of his frustrations with his situations in life than out of actual anti-social tendencies.

    Now, Frank Castle -- there's an anti-social person. Callous, lacking empathy and conscience regarding others, suicidal at times, sociopathic.

  3. #48
    Anyone. Anywhere.Anytime. Arsenal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyke View Post
    I don't recall most versions of Peter having anti-social tendencies. On the contrary, he's always seemed incredibly conscientious of others' emotional states. That scene in the comics where he and Franklin Richards bond about both of their Uncle Bens showed a great capacity for empathy and emotional intelligence. I mean, sure, sometimes he lashes out but that's more out of his frustrations with his situations in life than out of actual anti-social tendencies.

    Now, Frank Castle -- there's an anti-social person. Callous, lacking empathy and conscience regarding others, suicidal at times, sociopathic.
    I think they were using “anti-social” in the literal sense, not the clinical one.

  4. #49
    Silver Sentinel BeastieRunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Walton View Post
    Crazy Selvig was great. The scene where he looks as though he's teaching class but he's in the asylum is funny stuff.

    I don't think the film was particularly interested in Malekith's personality. He's more a relentless force of nature trying to revert creation back to its default state. I think they could have made him a bit more charismatic, but I'm okay with the direction they went. It's not really about him so much as the problems he creates. Loki makes up for his lack of personality.

    I just re-watched TDW recently and liked it better the second time around. I don't know, I think going in the first time I was too wrapped up in expectations based off Walt Simonson's work and the Casket of Winters story arc. But I just enjoyed it for what it was, and man, it's a fun film because of bits like Selvig's insanity (and the intern having an intern). Most of the jokes land. And the emotional bits are great, too, like Loki's relationship with Frigga.
    TDW is also cited by the director and actors as the beginning of the "Marvel Way™" because Disney/Marvel/producers heavily edited and changed the film from the original cut.

    “I’ve done two [blockbuster movies; the other being this week’s ‘Terminator Genisys‘] and I’ve learned that you don’t make a $170 million movie with someone else’s money and not have to collaborate a lot,” Taylor told Uproxx. “The Marvel experience was particularly wrenching because I was sort of given absolute freedom while we were shooting, and then in post it turned into a different movie. So, that is something I hope never to repeat and don’t wish upon anybody else. [‘Terminator Genisys’] was not like that. The story we started telling is essentially the story we finished and are bringing out into the world. But there was a lot of collaboration, as there is going to be on something this big.” -- Alan Taylor

    I hope we get an OG cut someday ...
    "Always listen to the crazy scientist with a weird van or armful of blueprints and diagrams." -- Vibranium

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegeta View Post
    Tony Stark blowing up his armored suits at the end of Iron Man 3. "But it's like, symbolic or something!"

    We all knew he was still slated to appear in several Avengers and Captain America movies. It had zero impact on the film series. He didn't quit being Iron Man for Pepper Potts, and the destruction of the armored suits wasn't a plot point that would bite him in the ass in later installments, etc. Heck, he was still suffering from PTSD in the end credits, so it wasn't even some kind of therapeutic relief of whatever. It's just meaningless spectacle.
    Tony made sure to blow up his armor in a place where Pepper got to see him do it. THAT was the point.

    If it got Pepper to think "maybe he really means it this time" it works. It's a very theatrical show of Tony's INTENT to change at the point where his
    continuing to be Iron Man was becoming a really big issue for her.

    We in the audience don't have to believe it (and Tony's end scene voiceover implies that he hasn't given up jack).

  6. #51
    Astonishing Member David Walton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyke View Post
    I don't recall most versions of Peter having anti-social tendencies. On the contrary, he's always seemed incredibly conscientious of others' emotional states. That scene in the comics where he and Franklin Richards bond about both of their Uncle Bens showed a great capacity for empathy and emotional intelligence. I mean, sure, sometimes he lashes out but that's more out of his frustrations with his situations in life than out of actual anti-social tendencies.

    Now, Frank Castle -- there's an anti-social person. Callous, lacking empathy and conscience regarding others, suicidal at times, sociopathic.
    Peter has anti-social tendencies, the most obvious manifestation being when he let the burglar pass by as a sort of middle finger to the world outside the loving home Aunt May and Uncle Ben had provided him. He is also inherently decent, and that's why guilt over Uncle Ben's death shaped him into a more conscientious young man than he had been. But he still had a chip on his shoulder and frequently acted from anger, as when he told the FF off after having invaded the Baxter building. Over the years, he matured significantly, but those tendencies still pop up from time to time. He basically told a drug-addled Harry to go to hell after Gwen died. He fought Daredevil and beat Stan Carter within an inch of his life after Jean DeWolff's murder. Until recently, he wasn't considered fit for permanent membership on any kind of team roster, even though he frequently teamed up with other heroes on a case-by-case basis. He doesn't tend to trust others even when he likes them and guards his secrets and his loved ones closely.

    Of course, arguing that Peter has anti-social tendencies isn't equating him with Frank Castle. It's just pointing out that Peter approaches relationships from a much more guarded, and sometimes even jaded and angry place, than say, Captain America.

  7. #52
    Astonishing Member David Walton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arsenal View Post
    I think they were using “anti-social” in the literal sense, not the clinical one.
    Yes. Peter doesn't always socialize well with others. He's always going to have some level of resentment, though he has matured significantly over the years in coping with it.

  8. #53
    Peter Scott/Scott Peter SpiderClops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Walton View Post
    Bruce Banner and Peter Parker are the biggest departures from their comic versions IMO. Both characters lost their intensity and anti-social tendencies.
    Peter Parker has never been anti-social. What are you talking about? And what do you mean by 'intensity' here?
    “Indifference and neglect often do much more damage than outright dislike.”
    -Albus Percival Wulfric Brian Dumbledore, Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix

  9. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Walton View Post
    The scene with Tony blowing up his armor at the end of IM3 is a bit over the top, but it works if you read it as Tony trying to rediscover his genius and not rely on the same ideas with minor tweaks.
    Tony's personality can basically be described as over-the-top. it was like him buying those expensive paintings to put in storage. the idea is that money is meaningless to him.
    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    I thought I couldn't love Steve Rogers any more than I already do, but here he is, eating pizza with a fork, just like I do (the only correct way to eat pizza

  10. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiderClops View Post
    Peter Parker has never been anti-social. What are you talking about? And what do you mean by 'intensity' here?
    original ditko Peter was a jerk. he deserved the grief that Flash gave him. and i'm glad that they didn't carry that over into the movie.
    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    I thought I couldn't love Steve Rogers any more than I already do, but here he is, eating pizza with a fork, just like I do (the only correct way to eat pizza

  11. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyke View Post

    Now, Frank Castle -- there's an anti-social person. Callous, lacking empathy and conscience regarding others, suicidal at times, sociopathic.
    except in the Netflix show.
    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    I thought I couldn't love Steve Rogers any more than I already do, but here he is, eating pizza with a fork, just like I do (the only correct way to eat pizza

  12. #57
    Extraordinary Member Cyke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Walton View Post
    Peter has anti-social tendencies, the most obvious manifestation being when he let the burglar pass by as a sort of middle finger to the world outside the loving home Aunt May and Uncle Ben had provided him. He is also inherently decent, and that's why guilt over Uncle Ben's death shaped him into a more conscientious young man than he had been. But he still had a chip on his shoulder and frequently acted from anger, as when he told the FF off after having invaded the Baxter building. Over the years, he matured significantly, but those tendencies still pop up from time to time. He basically told a drug-addled Harry to go to hell after Gwen died. He fought Daredevil and beat Stan Carter within an inch of his life after Jean DeWolff's murder. Until recently, he wasn't considered fit for permanent membership on any kind of team roster, even though he frequently teamed up with other heroes on a case-by-case basis. He doesn't tend to trust others even when he likes them and guards his secrets and his loved ones closely.

    Of course, arguing that Peter has anti-social tendencies isn't equating him with Frank Castle. It's just pointing out that Peter approaches relationships from a much more guarded, and sometimes even jaded and angry place, than say, Captain America.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arsenal View Post
    I think they were using “anti-social” in the literal sense, not the clinical one.
    Okay, so hey, we have a problem here. "Anti-social" isn't something that should be bandied casually about if we're aiming for accuracy here (especially if we're talking about how Peter was vs. his current portrayals). Those descriptions of Peter up there? Those are personality traits and normal emotions (and some as natural reactions from the plot) but those are not anti-social tendencies. A guarded personality is not a trait of being anti-social -- some of the most popular people in social circles have some of the most private of lives as well. It'd be like calling a grumpy person a hemophiliac colloquially when really the two traits are medically unrelated to each other.

    It may sound like semantics but anti-social personality disorder is an actual, defined medical condition. It does not mean being a loner.

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/c...ality-disorder
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiso...ality_disorder
    Last edited by Cyke; 04-16-2019 at 09:50 AM.

  13. #58
    Astonishing Member David Walton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    original ditko Peter was a jerk. he deserved the grief that Flash gave him. and i'm glad that they didn't carry that over into the movie.
    He could be at times, but that's probably a bit harsh. He had reasons for being angry, just as Flash did.

    It's not really an either/or thing for Peter IMO. He's capable of being compassionate and oblivious, selfless and self-centered, kind and spiteful.

    But for me, personally, that's what makes him an interesting and relatable character. When it comes to live action, I think the Raimi/Maguire version struck the best balance. The Webb/Garfield version veers a bit too far into unlikability at times, while the Holland version strikes me as too nice and eager to please.

    But that's just my take.

  14. #59
    Extraordinary Member Cyke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    except in the Netflix show.
    Couldn't watch it. I can't stand breaking bones (my one big weakness when watching TV/film) and the fact that you can't really skip them in this show b/c they happen during pretty important points in the show meant I had to give up.

    Not to rag on anyone who did like the show, though. More power for anyone who can stomach it. I was still sad nonetheless that it was canceled just like the rest of the Netflix MCU shows.

  15. #60
    Anyone. Anywhere.Anytime. Arsenal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyke View Post
    Okay, so hey, we have a problem here. "Anti-social" isn't something that should be bandied casually about if we're aiming for accuracy here (especially if we're talking about how Peter was vs. his current portrayals). Those descriptions of Peter up there? Those are personality traits and normal emotions (and some as natural reactions from the plot) but those are not anti-social tendencies. A guarded personality is not a trait of being anti-social -- some of the most popular people in social circles have some of the most private of lives as well. It'd be like calling a grumpy person a hemophiliac colloquially when really the two traits are medically unrelated to each other.

    It may sound like semantics but anti-social personality disorder is an actual, defined medical condition. It does not mean being a loner.

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/c...ality-disorder
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiso...ality_disorder
    I’m aware of that. Was just pointing out the disconnect because you 2 were clearly talking about very different things.

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