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  1. #76
    Astonishing Member AJBopp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arsenal View Post
    It did establish a new status quo: Hulk was missing, Thor left earth, Clint & Tony retired while introducing the new version of the team which was primarily made up of new additions (Wanda, Vision, Rhodey).

    Without that new team forming in AoU, you can't do Civil War because there would be no team left to fall apart. So it did contribute to the overall story.
    While I don't disagree with the broader point, I don't remember Rhodey being on the new team. Might be misremembering though.
    Why yes, I AM a Mark Goodson/Bill Toddman production.

  2. #77
    Astonishing Member AJBopp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    If I remember correctly, it was his intense frustration trying to figure out the anger=super strength thing in the pilot that caused him, in part, to overdose on the rays in the first place.
    As I recall, it was an adrenaline thing. He was trying to understand why some people, in moments of extreme anxiety or stress, can perform amazing physical feats, while he was unable to lift a burning car off his wife after an accident despite it being the biggest adrenaline experience of his life. I don't recall anger really being a part of the origin motivation, and it wasn't always a part of his transformation. Sometimes it was fear, for example. I remember an episode in particular where he transformed because a crowd at a concert went out of control and he was being trampled. He wasn't angry, just terrified.
    Why yes, I AM a Mark Goodson/Bill Toddman production.

  3. #78
    Anyone. Anywhere.Anytime. Arsenal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJBopp View Post
    While I don't disagree with the broader point, I don't remember Rhodey being on the new team. Might be misremembering though.
    He’s there in the final scene prior to the “AVENGERS ASSEMBLE” fake out. I don't think he was there when the team went after Rumloff, but he’s at the team meeting when Tony and Ross present the accords for the first time.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arsenal View Post
    It did establish a new status quo: Hulk was missing, Thor left earth, Clint & Tony retired while introducing the new version of the team which was primarily made up of new additions (Wanda, Vision, Rhodey).

    Without that new team forming in AoU, you can't do Civil War because there would be no team left to fall apart. So it did contribute to the overall story.
    Hulk and Thor going happens before the last scene but true. There's no reason for Clint and Tony to retire as they show up in Civil War (I guess we couldn't have Hawkeye in that film's first act for... reasons?), Wanda and Vision join the team in the third act of Ultron, and Rhodey isn't part of the team in the Lagos mission.

    All that scene establishes is that Falcon is part of the Avengers, which carries onto Ant-Man and the first act of Civil War. It's a bizarre ending of Phrase 2.

  5. #80
    Silver Sentinel BeastieRunner's Avatar
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    I'm watching Ultron right now as part of my daily challenge ... Thor's scene reveals all the Infinity Stones and what they're housed in.

    So not super useless.
    "Always listen to the crazy scientist with a weird van or armful of blueprints and diagrams." -- Vibranium

  6. #81
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeastieRunner View Post
    I'm watching Ultron right now as part of my daily challenge ... Thor's scene reveals all the Infinity Stones and what they're housed in.

    So not super useless.
    Yea but he doesnt do anything to go after them he just goes about trying to stop Ragnarok. Which is completely unrelated to the stones and it's just a weird out of nowhere scene. I guess there was more set up for it but it was cut from the movie.

  7. #82
    Anyone. Anywhere.Anytime. Arsenal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    Yea but he doesnt do anything to go after them he just goes about trying to stop Ragnarok. Which is completely unrelated to the stones and it's just a weird out of nowhere scene. I guess there was more set up for it but it was cut from the movie.
    Doesn’t Thor say he tried to find them but failed during his opening monologue in Ragnarok?

  8. #83
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arsenal View Post
    Doesn’t Thor say he tried to find them but failed during his opening monologue in Ragnarok?
    Dont recall that but maybe


    Edit: he says he went searching the cosmos for something that lead him there. Surtur doesn't have any stones so if that searching for them lead him there he sucks at finding stuff.
    Last edited by Midvillian1322; 04-17-2019 at 12:20 PM.

  9. #84
    Silver Sentinel BeastieRunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    Yea but he doesnt do anything to go after them he just goes about trying to stop Ragnarok. Which is completely unrelated to the stones and it's just a weird out of nowhere scene. I guess there was more set up for it but it was cut from the movie.
    He says in the finale of Ultron that he's going to try to find out who is messing with the Infinity Stones and why they keep showing up.


    Quote Originally Posted by Arsenal View Post
    Doesn’t Thor say he tried to find them but failed during his opening monologue in Ragnarok?
    Yes.

    Thor references that in the beginning of Ragnarok. He also mentions since finding the Mind Stone, he keeps having dreams of Asgard burning, which brought him to Surtur. Which is why he wanted to bring Odin Sutur and ask him what's up, but Thor figures out it's Loki. He's been bringing Odin old weapons during his quest to find the source of the Infinity Stone manipulations and when he brought Sutur, it begins a cascade of circumstances. Loki being King screwed things up so Thor attempts to right that. Unlocking Hela with the death of Odin being the major one that took Thor off the Infinity Stone quest. So then Thor had to deal with Ragnarok.

    I don't doubt that Thanos snagged the Power Stone first because he knew taking the Space Stone from Asgard would be the hardest. But Loki and Hela sure made it easier for him.

    You know, re-watching the movies in order now, that scene doesn't appear that useless.

    So my new list:

    - The Leader setup.
    - "I'm always angry."
    Last edited by BeastieRunner; 04-17-2019 at 12:45 PM.
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  10. #85
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeastieRunner View Post
    He says in the finale of Ultron that he's going to try to find out who is messing with the Infinity Stones and why they keep showing up.




    Yes.

    Thor references that in the beginning of Ragnarok. He also mentions since finding the Mind Stone, he keeps having dreams of Asgard burning, which brought him to Surtur. Which is why he wanted to bring Odin Sutur and ask him what's up, but Thor figures out it's Loki. He's been bringing Odin old weapons during his quest to find the source of the Infinity Stone manipulations and when he brought Sutur, it begins a cascade of circumstances. Loki being King screwed things up so Thor attempts to right that. Unlocking Hela with the death of Odin being the major one that took Thor off the Infinity Stone quest. So then Thor had to deal with Ragnarok.

    I don't doubt that Thanos snagged the Power Stone first because he knew taking the Space Stone from Asgard would be the hardest. But Loki and Hela sure made it easier for him.

    You know, re-watching the movies in order now, that scene doesn't appear that useless.
    Found the opening Monologue on YouTube he doesnt mention the stones he just says He went searching the cosmos for something that lead him to Surtur and that he keep having dreams of Asgard on fire with suture at the center. Does he mention the stones directly somewhere else in the movie? I mean yes Thors clearly having dreams because of the mind stone but he doesnt say that he just says he has dreams. None of that makes that bathtub vision scene any more relevant. Since he came into contact with the mind stones power FROM Wanda in a different scene.

    Let's be honest Raganrok was probaly originally connected to Thanos and the Stones but Taika Waitti came in pitched his movie and plans changed. The original vision suggested Thanos and the stone lead to Ragnarok but really all they lead to was the half a ship of Asgardians being killed. It's not a plot hole its still can be made to line up but you can tell they're plans changed. Just like the Cosmic Cube being the Space stone. Clearly originally it was the Cube and then they decided to go another route and made stuff we already saw stones. Which worked just fine, the Aether was the only weird one but again the way they did it worked for me aswell.
    Last edited by Midvillian1322; 04-17-2019 at 12:54 PM.

  11. #86
    Anyone. Anywhere.Anytime. Arsenal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EsotericFailures View Post
    Hulk and Thor going happens before the last scene but true. There's no reason for Clint and Tony to retire as they show up in Civil War (I guess we couldn't have Hawkeye in that film's first act for... reasons?), Wanda and Vision join the team in the third act of Ultron, and Rhodey isn't part of the team in the Lagos mission.

    All that scene establishes is that Falcon is part of the Avengers, which carries onto Ant-Man and the first act of Civil War. It's a bizarre ending of Phrase 2.
    I guess I just don’t find it bizarre. Age of Ultron end with the OG team breaking up, a new one forming to fill the void and we follow it up in the Largos mission in Civil War. It all makes sense to me and doesn’t feel useless.

  12. #87
    Astonishing Member David Walton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    To be fair there might be some more Bixby influence there as well to Rufallo's Hulk. Rufallo even physically resembles Bixby more so than Bana and Norton. Bixby wasn't really much like the comics version of Banner either-not really as emotionally withdrawn. If I remember correctly, it was his intense frustration trying to figure out the anger=super strength thing in the pilot that caused him, in part, to overdose on the rays in the first place.
    Also, Banner makes a point in Avengers that his failed suicide attempt changed his outlook considerably. So there is a credible reason why Banner has changed, having both accepted that he can't end the Hulk and not being chased by Ross for over a year. Lots of time for quiet contemplation.

    For the record, I like Norton and Ruffalo's takes. I think if Marvel had been able to proceed with more Hulk solo films, Ruffalo's Banner would be more in line with the comics version. But personality shifts are not uncommon for comics Banner anyway. He had a mad scientist phase, after all, where he trained his son to kill him!

    I have more difficulty with the changes to Spider-Man, but that's just because I grew up on the 616 version. I think Holland does a great job with the creative vision for Spider-Man they're selling, I'm just not that enthused by it. And that's okay--I know plenty of people for whom it's their gateway to Spider-Man and he's fueled their enthusiasm for the character.

  13. #88
    Astonishing Member AJBopp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    Just like the Cosmic Cube being the Space stone. Clearly originally it was the Cube and then they decided to go another route and made stuff we already saw stones.
    Hmm...why do you think the cube was not always intended to be the space stone?
    Why yes, I AM a Mark Goodson/Bill Toddman production.

  14. #89
    Silver Sentinel BeastieRunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJBopp View Post
    Hmm...why do you think the cube was not always intended to be the space stone?
    The writers of Infinity War, who also wrote Captain America: The First Avenger revealed in an interview: "... we started with [Red Skull], 10 years ago. And he had the Cosmic Cube, which was then referred to sometimes as 'The Cosmic Cube', and we didn’t know it was one of the Infinity Stones.” In Thor: The Dark World, it's revealed that the Tesseract is in fact one of the Infinity Gems. Something they were able to do because they previously avoided calling it a Cosmic Cube.



    So the answer is Marvel left it vague in order to create wiggle room for the future. The Tesseract’s design was based on the cosmic cube, and the planning for Infinity Wars did not begin until the start of Phase Two.

    EDIT: For some reason, the video won't hot link to the section that talks about the Tesseract/Cosmic Cube/Space Stone. That starts at 28:48.
    Last edited by BeastieRunner; 04-17-2019 at 02:56 PM.
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  15. #90

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    I think a large chunk of the Dark World can be removed and it wouldn't change much. All I remember is a few scenes I can count on one hand that feel barely important to the rest of the MCU continuity.

    Spider-Man Homecoming is another movie that feels barely inconsequential for the most part. In Civil War he could take a bunch of supers on his own, and this one made him unable to defeat a bunch of normal people he chose to mock instead. And the revelations that the core of the Chitauri can explode by being exposed to x-ray.. how many times have these cores been exposed to different kinds of rays without such damage?

    As mentioned buy a few; the Iron Man suits light show near the end of Iron Man 3.
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