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  1. #31
    Silver Sentinel BeastieRunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KROENEN View Post
    It's just very tone deaf the way they present it, they actually say "this is the main selling point".

    We also get to see Janitor Finn," Lucasfilm Story Group's Matt Martin added. "That's the main selling point."

    I was in the military too so my first assumption was the same, that everybody gets to be janitors in the military...but this just comes off a bit different, like they are making a specific point out of Finn being a janitor in the FO.
    Oh, I agree it's very tone deaf.

    I never would have looked at the articles if it weren't for this thread.

    I just went, "OH! A new Finn book," and ordered it.
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegeta View Post
    I honestly thought it was in poor taste as well, but I can't really blame the book series, as it was first attributed to Finn in "The Force Awakens."

    Although I could see Finn placed on janitorial services as punishment for not wanting to shoot unarmed combatants or disobeying some other order from his superiors that he found morally objectionable. As of right now though it is just used as a piece of comic relief.
    That is actually a good idea way to salvage that character note.

  3. #33
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    Finn doing sanitation work isn't a bad thing, and I'll be honest, I don't think flashing back to that story would be all that bad...

    ... But in a post-TLJ world, it's a tone deaf move that plays into the anxieties and frustrations his fans feel about his story going forward, especially compared to Kylo and Poe. Finn is *supposed* to be the clear male lead of the ST, and *is* the male lead of TFA. But TLJ's general apathy and lack of attentiveness towards the character, and his being sidelined in an arguably redundant and pointless side-quest that was sloppily written and executed have soured some Finn fans' opinions about how LFL sees the character. A bunch of us want to see him treated more significantly, seriously, and dangerously, without having the humor or humbleness removed, but not having it be the character's defining - and heaven forbid, limiting - feature.

    It's the kind of situation that would probably benefit from someone at LFL or in TROS's production connecting with the Story Group and Marvel to approve some kind of story between TLJ and TROS, something to show the character taking a few levels in badass and significance between films, and to have him treated with a bit more respect as the main lynchpin in Starkiller Base's destruction.

    "Sanitation" was a quick, funny joke that played into the tension of TFA as Finn's arc culminated in him becoming a heroic "big deal" in the Resistance, and as much as TLJ failed the character from concept to execution, "mopping the floors" was still used just as a bit of lore work to justify the otherwise overwrought and stupid Space Chase-Canto Bight-Incredible-amount-of-missed-Opportunities/Supremacy Infiltration. Finn fans would prefer that joke and comparatively minor detail get moved past and Finn's heroic and brave credentials get acknowledged quite a bit more.

    The last thing Finn fans want is an established pattern of marginalization and dismissiveness that lowers Finn's appeal value so that Poe or Kylo can take his spot as main male lead. And like it or not, at this point, a pre-TFA story focusing on Finn doing menial labor *is* dismissive, especially if Kylo or Poe get more action oriented stories that give them agency over others.
    Last edited by godisawesome; 05-16-2019 at 11:36 AM.
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  4. #34
    Astonishing Member Starter Set's Avatar
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    One would think that jobs like that would be handled by droids but well, guess the empire 1.5 wanted to cut some of its expenses.

    Ain't cheap to kidnap and train kids you know.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starter Set View Post
    One would think that jobs like that would be handled by droids but well, guess the empire 1.5 wanted to cut some of its expenses.

    Ain't cheap to kidnap and train kids you know.
    Think the idea was to mirror how real-life militaries often assign additional duties to the cadets (a prequel novel noted that Finn had a squad mate who was on KP, for example).
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starter Set View Post
    One would think that jobs like that would be handled by droids but well, guess the empire 1.5 wanted to cut some of its expenses.

    Ain't cheap to kidnap and train kids you know.
    I'm pretty sure the empire is unionized. How else do you explain all the people who just sit around pushing buttons and are basically completely worthless? They're jobs should've been automated along time ago. Even the soliders! There were way superior armies back on the prequels, battle droids and fett clones. But nowadays, the troopers are just re-trained people.

    I'm pretty sure, the powers behind Palpatine were the unions.

  7. #37
    Astonishing Member Starter Set's Avatar
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    Those accursed unions!!

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starter Set View Post
    Those accursed unions!!
    Have you ever felt the power of the dark side... of organized labor.

  9. #39
    Oni of the Ash Moon Ronin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkrook View Post
    Truth it needs to be "killed" Let's start with the book's creators stop using it as the hook!!?? Try selling Captain America...as the skinny guy, or Spiderman...as the geeky nerd getting picked on, or Luke Cage as regular old convict with no power. Now before we get into protocol debate on space military let's remember that we trying to sell books here. Most fanboys rarely get into black male characters that somehow are a rarity in the whole cosmos, now we putting labels as Janitors. Is that what we doing now??? Lol, nobody is being sensitive this mess is just silly.
    Actually, those are selling points of those books. With out those past then the hero's story would be completely different. Its all part of the out line of A Hero's Journey the first being the hero as some what ordinary, a humble start. Finn goes from working sanitation to a member of Captain Phasma's death squad, then a deserter, finding a cause, and to finish as a main hero of the Resistance. To cut off one part is to deny Finn a full story and that would be a shame. There are "Farm Boy" Luke and "scoundrel" Han stories so why avoid "Janitor" Finn stories? What you are suggesting is that part of Finn's Hero's Journey (the ordinary humble beginning) should be avoided because he is black.

    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    ... But in a post-TLJ world, it's a tone deaf move that plays into the anxieties and frustrations his fans feel about his story going forward, especially compared to Kylo and Poe. Finn is *supposed* to be the clear male lead of the ST, and *is* the male lead of TFA. But TLJ's general apathy and lack of attentiveness towards the character, and his being sidelined in an arguably redundant and pointless side-quest that was sloppily written and executed have soured some Finn fans' opinions about how LFL sees the character. A bunch of us want to see him treated more significantly, seriously, and dangerously, without having the humor or humbleness removed, but not having it be the character's defining - and heaven forbid, limiting - feature.

    It's the kind of situation that would probably benefit from someone at LFL or in TROS's production connecting with the Story Group and Marvel to approve some kind of story between TLJ and TROS, something to show the character taking a few levels in badass and significance between films, and to have him treated with a bit more respect as the main lynchpin in Starkiller Base's destruction.
    I would agree that Finn suffered from TLJ but Poe suffered just as much if not more from it. I did not like how it took place in the time line so soon after TFA unlike the over movies that had years in-between instalments this left little room for expansion. So with Finn being in the First Order before TFA and in a coma between it and TLJ there is not too much to work with other than his First Order past and as we already know Jakku wasn't Finn's mission it is limited still and that the comic book would just be a retelling of before the Awakening. I don't think they would put out anything between TLJ and TROS before the TROS comes out and hope that there is a larger span of time between the them than there was between TFA and TLJ.
    Last edited by Moon Ronin; 05-24-2019 at 12:33 PM.
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  10. #40
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Slightly OT but the Hux comic is getting a bit of controversy for using a fan design on the cover.


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  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    Slightly OT but the Hux comic is getting a bit of controversy for using a fan design on the cover.


    https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLea...s_from_age_of/
    Wouldn't be the first time fanon and fan art crept into the official materials.
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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Ronin View Post
    Actually, those are selling points of those books. With out those past then the hero's story would be completely different. Its all part of the out line of A Hero's Journey the first being the hero as some what ordinary, a humble start. Finn goes from working sanitation to a member of Captain Phasma's death squad, then a deserter, finding a cause, and to finish as a main hero of the Resistance. To cut off one part is to deny Finn a full story and that would be a shame. There are "Farm Boy" Luke and "scoundrel" Han stories so why avoid "Janitor" Finn stories? What you are suggesting is that part of Finn's Hero's Journey (the ordinary humble beginning) should be avoided because he is black.
    Luke & Han have had way more stuff done about them to create a fully developed character.

    The difference between Finn and EVERYBODY else is you saw STORIES about them be it film, tv shows, comics or novels. There was no ONE SHOT for them-you got multiple stuff.

    We have seen guys from Porkins to General Veers to random Tie Fighters get way more development than Finn. Even DEAD folk like Rose's sister have more than Finn.

    We have ONE comic that showed Finn with Empire and it was from IDW. That is all we have gotten about his past.

    Now if we were to get a mini series about Finn explaining him-that would be a different story. Instead we get a selling point of the Janitor Finn.

  13. #43
    Oni of the Ash Moon Ronin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    Luke & Han have had way more stuff done about them to create a fully developed character.

    The difference between Finn and EVERYBODY else is you saw STORIES about them be it film, tv shows, comics or novels. There was no ONE SHOT for them-you got multiple stuff.

    We have seen guys from Porkins to General Veers to random Tie Fighters get way more development than Finn. Even DEAD folk like Rose's sister have more than Finn.

    We have ONE comic that showed Finn with Empire and it was from IDW. That is all we have gotten about his past.

    Now if we were to get a mini series about Finn explaining him-that would be a different story. Instead we get a selling point of the Janitor Finn.
    There has been decades to every one named but Rose's sister, that is why there is so much. Rose's sister (her name is Paige by the way) who is more malleable than Finn and most likely not restrained by the "spoiler" aspect that has kept Disney approving further stories like with Rey and Kylo Ren, Finn may be in that category too. Again one of the bad things is the short time between TFA and TLJ that put a lot of constraints on his development as if it would have followed the pattern of the other installments then it would have been years apart and given room for Finn's development outside of the movies as he was in some kind of coma. The story in the book Before the Awakening is pretty much Finn's whole combat history with the First Order (IDW is not cannon) so there are limits to what can be done. The one shot is something that can be built off of and Janitor Finn is not just going to be moping floors and carrying out trash it plainly says that (may show off his shooting skills). A humble beginning is a selling point, See (blank) when they were a mild mannered (blank) before they became (blank), has been a way to sell entertainment for years. The Finn one shot may create enough room for a Finn mini or novel. We haven't read it but yet we judge it.
    With the Star Wars one shots coming out what would you have them do giving the limits at the moment with Finn, just leave him out?

    Finn has only been out for 4 years, you can't really compare the amount of information and stories about him with ones that have been out for 40.
    Last edited by Moon Ronin; 06-07-2019 at 10:29 AM.
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  14. #44
    Incredible Member dkrook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Ronin View Post
    There has been decades to every one named but Rose's sister, that is why there is so much. Rose's sister (her name is Paige by the way) who is more malleable than Finn and most likely not restrained by the "spoiler" aspect that has kept Disney approving further stories like with Rey and Kylo Ren, Finn may be in that category too. Again one of the bad things is the short time between TFA and TLJ that put a lot of constraints on his development as if it would have followed the pattern of the other installments then it would have been years apart and given room for Finn's development outside of the movies as he was in some kind of coma. The story in the book Before the Awakening is pretty much Finn's whole combat history with the First Order (IDW is not cannon) so there are limits to what can be done. The one shot is something that can be built off of and Janitor Finn is not just going to be moping floors and carrying out trash it plainly says that (may show off his shooting skills). A humble beginning is a selling point, See (blank) when they were a mild mannered (blank) before they became (blank), has been a way to sell entertainment for years. The Finn one shot may create enough room for a Finn mini or novel. We haven't read it but yet we judge it.
    With the Star Wars one shots coming out what would you have them do giving the limits at the moment with Finn, just leave him out?

    Finn has only been out for 4 years, you can't really compare the amount of information and stories about him with ones that have been out for 40.
    I don't think we need to do anything drastic like comparing him what came 40 years before. We got 2 movies with Finn and two other Protagonists. Truly out of 3 villains, and the 2 other Protagonists he has received the least build up, and to boot the quality of his build up is the very worst. Maybe, just maybe Hux is the same.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    Luke & Han have had way more stuff done about them to create a fully developed character.

    The difference between Finn and EVERYBODY else is you saw STORIES about them be it film, tv shows, comics or novels. There was no ONE SHOT for them-you got multiple stuff.
    Some of those characters have been around for years and have had the time to get those stories.

    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    We have seen guys from Porkins to General Veers to random Tie Fighters get way more development than Finn.
    I'll see that bet in terms of what's actually written, although worth noting that A.) Porkins and Veers are much older characters, as noted before, and B.) most of their stories are Legends, meaning that from a canon standpoint, Finn does have the leg up on them.

    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    Even DEAD folk like Rose's sister have more than Finn.
    Debatable.

    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    We have ONE comic that showed Finn with Empire and it was from IDW. That is all we have gotten about his past.
    Wrong, we also have the Before the Awakening novella.

    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    Now if we were to get a mini series about Finn explaining him-that would be a different story. Instead we get a selling point of the Janitor Finn.
    In total, Finn has been a protagonist in two movies. He's also gotten further development in the novelizations of said movies (including one that retold TFA solely from his perspective). His background was laid out in a novella. We got an incidental short story about him in the IDW comics. He's going to be a major player in an upcoming TFA prequel novel. And, of course, there's going to be the one-shot in the Age of Resistance one-shot series. That's actually not too bad for a four-year-old character.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Ronin View Post
    (IDW is not cannon)
    It actually is.
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