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  1. #1
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    Default X-Men movies: switching one future with another

    Well,

    I would love to open a fun discussion about my beloved X-Men movies without having to deal with the usual movie bashing. Hopefully...

    Given the fact Marvel and even Hugh Jackman confirmed that "Logan" is an alternate dimension (as well as "Deadpool", "Legion" and "The Gifted") and thus the X-Men movie franchise is a multiverse, not an universe...
    So the positive ending of "Days of Future Past" is the definitive happy end of the entire franchise.

    Well, it looks like the 2023's "apocalyptic" future of "Days of Future Past" was just a Mad Max-ish world where all continents had been ravaged by the Sentinels, which killed either mutants and humans...? It seems so. Actually, we're never told if that destruction involves the entire planet or just few countries (America, China).

    On the other hand, when Wolverine altered the past in 1973, he jump-started a new timeline. In this timeline:

    1- En Sabah Nur/Apocalypse was awaken in 1983. Yeah, he shut all nuclear missiles off forever in the space (great thing), but he also managed to destroy some coastlines (San Francisco) using Magneto as "Horseman". Granted, we don't know the real extent of the damage that Magneto caused, but I think people managed to escape from the coastlines in time.
    Also, Apocalypse wiped out Cairo from the surface of planet. Totally.

    2- We don't know if Jean Grey/Dark Phoenix in the upcoming DP movie will destroy some city or some place; on the other hand, the X-Men will prevent an alien invasion set to conquer our planet.
    Also, for 9 years they helped humanity as famous superheroes in the public eye. They saved tons of people and cities in the process, I guess.


    In conclusion, has the new timeline been a bless or a curse for human race?



    Looking forward your feedback.
    Last edited by BatKeaton; 04-14-2019 at 05:37 PM.

  2. #2
    The Best There Is Wolverine12's Avatar
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    I would say avoiding the DoFP timeline is a major blessing.
    You brought back Wolverine

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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine12 View Post
    I would say avoiding the DoFP timeline is a major blessing.
    Yeah, I just don't see how any other timeline could have been worse.

  4. #4
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    Remember before the release of Logan, Jackman said that it takes place in another universe, but then Mangold said that the media misinterpreted it and he just meant that the movie is quite different from other X-Men movies and Logan does take place in DoFP timeline. But now they're saying it doesn't.
    “Indifference and neglect often do much more damage than outright dislike.”
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  5. #5
    Extraordinary Member The Shape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiderClops View Post
    Remember before the release of Logan, Jackman said that it takes place in another universe, but then Mangold said that the media misinterpreted it and he just meant that the movie is quite different from other X-Men movies and Logan does take place in DoFP timeline. But now they're saying it doesn't.
    Are they really?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Shape View Post
    Are they really?
    Marvel Company already gave the "Logan" future an official standalone classification: Earth-17315.
    Last edited by BatKeaton; 04-15-2019 at 04:34 AM.

  7. #7
    Extraordinary Member The Shape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BatKeaton View Post
    Marvel Company already gave the "Logan" future an official standalone classification: Earth-17315.
    Do you mean the Marvel Database wiki?

  8. #8
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    In my own head cannon Logan takes place in the main continuity, all the films share something in my head and I like it that way. Obviously there are alternative futures since that was the main point of DoFP but I like the idea of everything “matter” so to speak. Logan was a heart breaking end to the first book of the X-Men lore but it was an amazing end.
    You brought back Wolverine

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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Shape View Post
    Do you mean the Marvel Database wiki?
    It's everywhere, and it's official. It's not a TRN.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine12 View Post
    In my own head cannon Logan takes place in the main continuity, all the films share something in my head and I like it that way. Obviously there are alternative futures since that was the main point of DoFP but I like the idea of everything “matter” so to speak. Logan was a heart breaking end to the first book of the X-Men lore but it was an amazing end.
    Well, you're free to think that.


    Why "Logan" is an alternate reality:

    1- Old Man Logan killed the scientists in his version of the "Weapon X" Program. Our Logan never did that in "Apocalypse", he slaughtered the soldiers. Even in the original timeline, no scientist was killed.
    2- There was no Transigen-Alkali in "Apocalypse".
    3- There was no adamantium bullet in "Apocalypse". In the original timeline, the adamantium bullet was already used anyway, and would be not available anymore.
    4- There are mutant children in the school, at the ending of DOFP (2023). This means mutant births didn't stop in 2004, I mean in the mainstream X-Men universe.
    5- "Deadpool" (set in 2016) never hints at a "lack of mutant births". Well, "Deadpool" is an alternate universe anyway...
    6- In DOFP Phoenix is alive. In the deleted scene of "Logan", Old Man Logan talks about killing Jean and his remorse. It looks like Jean is still dead.
    7- They never talk about the time-travelling issue.
    8- Caliban is totally different.
    9- Logan is supposed to have been "masked and costumed" in his X-Man days.
    10- Charles is 90 years old in "Logan" (2029). In the mainstream X-Men universe, he is born in 1932, not 1938.
    Last edited by BatKeaton; 04-18-2019 at 11:14 AM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Shape View Post
    Do you mean the Marvel Database wiki?
    Yeah, they cited some unpublished document that listed the different dimensions in the Marvel Multiverse. Personally, I 99.99% don't have a problem with it being an AU (or an alternative sequel to the film series), but I do kinda question how much weight an unpublished document not authorized by the series producers and whatnot holds. However, I would say that the movie does lose some of its power if it's about new iterations of Professor X and Logan, and not the same ones we were following since 1999 since the original movie.


    To play devil's advocate
    Quote Originally Posted by BatKeaton View Post
    Why "Logan" is an alternate reality:

    1- Old Man Logan killed the scientists in his version of the "Weapon X" Program. Our Logan never did that in "Apocalypse", he slaughtered the soldiers. Even in the original timeline, no scientist was killed.
    There's really nothing to disprove that Logan didn't kill any scientists along the way (we don't see the entirety of his rampage, with plenty of cutaways to the other characters to allow for him to kill Rice, sr., and others offscreen). Also, I think it's a small enough detail to let it slide if we assume Logan is "canon."

    Quote Originally Posted by BatKeaton View Post
    2- There was no Transigen-Alkali in "Apocalypse".
    Don't see how that's a dealbreaker; we've always been introduced to new things that we've accepted were "always" there. (Besides, Apocalypse makes the strongest case for Logan being included, given that the bonus scene set it up and makes no sense otherwise -- although I will agree that with Mr. Sinister being dropped from the film series, it will always be something of a loose thread).

    Quote Originally Posted by BatKeaton View Post
    3- There was no adamantium bullet in "Apocalypse". In the original timeline, the adamantium bullet was already used anyway, and would be not available anymore.
    Logan could have gotten the bullet after he escaped in Apocalypse. Even in the Origins movie, there was more then one manufactured. While the bullet does speak of stuff happening off-camera, it doesn't contradict anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by BatKeaton View Post
    4- There are mutant children in the school, at the ending of DOFP (2023). This means mutant births didn't stop in 2004, I mean in the mainstream X-Men universe.
    5- "Deadpool" (set in 2016) never hints at a "lack of mutant births". Well, "Deadpool" is an alternate universe anyway...
    Not sure that Deadpool is officially an AU or not (although from everything I've heard about it, that would make a lot of sense). I will concede that this's a good point, but I'm not sure it's enough in and of itself; there have been worse mistakes in the other movies and we still accept them as being part of the same universe/cycle of altered universes.

    Quote Originally Posted by BatKeaton View Post
    6- In DOFP Phoenix is alive. In the deleted scene of "Logan", Old Man Logan talks about killing Jean and his remorse. It looks like Jean is still dead.
    First of all, Logan is set after Days of Future Past, so there's no contradiction if Jean was alive there but died sometime after (maybe in the Westchester Incident?). Secondly, the scene in question plays out where, when the farmer family ask if Logan was married (since he's told them Laura was his daughter), Professor X recalls Jean and comments that Logan killed her, which Logan passes off as Xavier spouting nonsense (the scene was cut because the filmmakers felt that ruined the tone and raised the question why the family would let them stay for the night). If we were to count it, it could either be that Xavier was indeed rambling about something that never happened or was mistaking the memories he read of X3 from Logan in Days of Future Past as being fact in the here and now. However, since the scene was deleted, it not really relevant to the movies, so I don't see the point of using it to get a read on how the films fit together.

    Quote Originally Posted by BatKeaton View Post
    7- They never talk about the time-travelling issue.
    What?

    Quote Originally Posted by BatKeaton View Post
    8- Caliban is totally different.
    I agree on that point, however, it's not the first time this's happened (Sabretooth, Emma Frost, Angel).

    Quote Originally Posted by BatKeaton View Post
    9- Logan is supposed to have been "masked and costumed" in his X-Man days.
    We only saw that in Laura's comic books (which Logan has a dim view of in the first place); that costume may well had as much basis in reality as the fictional adventures. Also worth noting, we never saw Logan's tenure with the X-Men in the revised timeline, so there's nothing to disprove that he didn't wore the costume.

    Quote Originally Posted by BatKeaton View Post
    10- Charles is 90 years old in "Logan" (2029). In the mainstream X-Men universe, he is born in 1932, not 1938.
    IMHO, I'm okay with letting this one slide, given that plenty of long-running series makes gaffes like this.

    Conclusion, most of the discrepancies cited here are not mistakes that would decanonize the movie and the ones that could are the kinds that the film series has always had. The only thing that makes a strong case for it being an AU is that unpublished document and even that is is highly questionable in terms of validity.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  12. #12
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    Fact is, it would seriously suck if such a depressing ending to the entire X-Men saga is definitive and not "alternate".
    The 2023 DOFP ending was 100% perfect. And we can see lots of mutant kids on there...
    Well, of course we can also assume that Cable (if "Deadpool" is not an AU) will alter the past and erase the events of "Logan", but "Deadpool 2" is supposed to be set in 2018. So there's nothing Cable can do to stop the virus.

    I don't know...

  13. #13
    Incredible Member Glio's Avatar
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    Thinking about Fox's continuity gives me head pain.

  14. #14
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    Well, I did it. Weblurker kinda convinced me about this.

    I modified my timelines and inserted "LOGAN" in the Original Timeline a.k.a. Timeline Prime Alpha.

    So, "Logan" is a follow-up of "X-Men Origins: Wolverine", "X-Men", "X2" and "X-Men: The Last Stand". It works nicely this way.

    Decades after the events of "Logan" (2029), Sebastian Shaw (Kevin Bacon) traveled back in 1912 and started altering the timeline, thus creating the "First Class Franchise" we all know and love.
    Last edited by BatKeaton; 04-20-2019 at 01:48 PM.

  15. #15
    The Best There Is Wolverine12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BatKeaton View Post
    Well, you're free to think that.


    Why "Logan" is an alternate reality:

    1- Old Man Logan killed the scientists in his version of the "Weapon X" Program. Our Logan never did that in "Apocalypse", he slaughtered the soldiers. Even in the original timeline, no scientist was killed.
    2- There was no Transigen-Alkali in "Apocalypse".
    3- There was no adamantium bullet in "Apocalypse". In the original timeline, the adamantium bullet was already used anyway, and would be not available anymore.
    4- There are mutant children in the school, at the ending of DOFP (2023). This means mutant births didn't stop in 2004, I mean in the mainstream X-Men universe.
    5- "Deadpool" (set in 2016) never hints at a "lack of mutant births". Well, "Deadpool" is an alternate universe anyway...
    6- In DOFP Phoenix is alive. In the deleted scene of "Logan", Old Man Logan talks about killing Jean and his remorse. It looks like Jean is still dead.
    7- They never talk about the time-travelling issue.
    8- Caliban is totally different.
    9- Logan is supposed to have been "masked and costumed" in his X-Man days.
    10- Charles is 90 years old in "Logan" (2029). In the mainstream X-Men universe, he is born in 1932, not 1938.
    That's a very nice list you have there.

    Either way it doesn't change my head cannon, which admittedly is not bullet proof but its the way I like it. On topic though, even though Logan is a sad ending for the original X-Men it was such a moving movie for me that I can't leave it on it's own. It is still preferable to DoFP because even though mutants are dwindling, the earth as a whole is okay. Also in my head cannon, Logan is a healer, he just went into Logan sleep (like Odin sleep, only it's Wolverine) :P
    You brought back Wolverine

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