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  1. #16
    Fantastic Member MeGrimlock420's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    Today's issue of Naomi gives us another Lantern themed connection that Bendis seems to be spreading around. Not to spoil to much, but there's a White Lantern insignia in this issue, and it's give quite the special moment. Naomi being a Lantern herself seems unlikely given we've seen her suit already, but this is just more pointing at the fact that Bendis seems quite interested in the mythology, and interested in linking it to other continuity.

    Once again, this makes me feel the emotional electromagnetic spectrum being used outside of a ring by Jon seems like a very real possibility.
    Sorry, unfortunately it's not the White Lantern insignia. I had to look at it a couple of times. It looks close to the Lantern insignia but it's not. White Lantern insignia has a triangle in it. The insignia in Naomi has a V in it.

    Plus you get to see her suited up on the cover of #6.
    Last edited by MeGrimlock420; 04-17-2019 at 10:06 AM.

  2. #17
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    Yeah, I jummped the gun on that. I didn't notice that she had it on her costume. It seemed like a moon when I first saw it, and I didn't bother to go back an double check unfortunately.

    I definitely retract my previous White Lantern statement. That said, I'm still sure about GL stuff in general being on his radar due to him creating Teen Lantern, and him apparently experimenting with the way a Lantern works (the "hacking" of the power battery).

    And Naomi's comic in general remains a strong example of Bendis tendency to allow ideas to bleed between books (Rann/Thanagar war, Adam Strange, Star Labs).
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  3. #18
    Fantastic Member MeGrimlock420's Avatar
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    I think Naomi the one going to the Legion, not Jon. I know a lot of his covers tend to be misleading. Just like this past issue of Superman where Supes and dad are fighting and they don't in the comic. Of course the cover shows her with YJ, but her solicitation says something curios for #6.

    NAOMI #6
    written by BRIAN MICHAEL BENDIS and DAVID F. WALKER
    art and cover by JAMAL CAMPBELL
    This is it, the end of the first season of NAOMI by the breakout collaboration of writers Brian Michael Bendis and David F. Walker and artist Jamal Campbell! With her origins finally revealed, Naomi embraces the journey ahead and charts a course for the future and her role.
    ON SALE 06.19.19
    $3.99 US | 32 PAGES
    FC | RATED T+
    FINAL ISSUE

    Charts a course for the future. To me that says Legion all over it.

  4. #19
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    But Bendis himself actually says after her 6 issue first season ends we'll catch her in Young Justice...

    That's not to say she can't end up with the Legion, but he seemed pretty clear about where she'd be next.

    I also don't see why both characters can't be part of the Legion? I think it'd be kind of cool to see them both "commute" back and forth from the present to the future.
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  5. #20
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    This isn't really a huge deal, but I think it's kind of cool/funny that Jon Kent and Sue Richards make the same style construct, and the book that features Sue's construct is written by a good friend of Bendis', Jonathan Hickman.



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  6. #21
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    How is Naomi? I wanted to get in on that but couldn't justify the extra expense (trying to control the comic budget more). Definitely grabbing the trade as soon as it hits but I'm curious how people are liking it.

    Just going by the solicits and that issue 6 cover.....something about it says "Monitor" to me. But that's about as uninformed an opinion as it can get.

    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    I'll disagree with that actually. Yeah, he'd be a more than effective hero without an new power, but from a purely storytelling standpoint it's just far more effective and impactful in my opinion. Him having a style that he uses his standard powers gets lost in the sauce of flying brick-itice for most writers and readers not hip to it the subtle change.
    A new power definitely is more blunt and to the point. Which is usually better (at least far more common) for comics. You've got a point there.

    Depends on your view, I suppose. I think quickly and effectively personifying what a new generation adds is just effective storytelling.
    It is, but Im not sure a new power is the best way to exemplify that. Yes, this could be something amazing that enriches the mythos and Jon's character. Or it could be like the super flare and end up a total waste. I also think its kinda lazy storytelling (having different Supers use powers differently isnt **that** hard to show), but it is effective.

    If Jon's power really is using some innate ability to tap into the emotional electromagnetic spectrum, then he adds an great and direct expression of pure imagination.
    A "emotional spectrum sorcerer" who taps into the power without a ring is a concept I've wanted to see since Sinestro Corps War, and if this is where Bendis goes I will definitely be interested in how it develops. If Jon has to have a new power, he could do far, far worse.

    That just doesn't leap out to me as anything though. He only makes mention of his powers when it's relevant to the major points of the story (when he explains why he couldn't get out of the volcano). It's been several years for him, so it slipping his mind while his trying to tell his parents about what they need to do about grandpa seems right to me. He may not be in a frantic hurry, but there's a focused nature to his story that doesn't have a lot of fat on it at all. At the end of the first issue where he starts his story, he tells his dad that they "need" to do something about grandpa.
    Yeah, maybe? All comes down to how you read it.

    That's an interesting thought. What are your fears on it?
    They're two fold. And keep in mind, I was willing to give Bendis the benefit of the doubt from the start and, generally, haven't been let down. So this is not a huge, massive concern or anything. He's been doing right by me so far, mostly, and I trust him (so far) a lot more than many writers when it comes to Superman and his world. But I dunno if I'll ever be able to completely, utterly trust DC or its talent with Superman again, so I've always got this cynical voice in the back of my head asking when and how they'll screw things up.

    Anyway, first I fear another "Kyle Rayner" situation. After Hal returned DC did a lot to make Kyle stand out and be unique. And they put so much focus on that, all it really did was highlight the contrast between Kyle and the other Lanterns. It wasn't about Kyle establishing and defining his role through his character, it was about his situation and his different powers. Kyle didnt stand out because of Kyle, he stood out because of Ion and the White Lantern. A character should not be defined by what they can do, but by who they are.

    Secondly, like I said its hard to add anything to the Super powerset that truly, actively adds anything. Clark can do virtually anything with clever use of his existing abilities, so its hard to find new ground (just new ways to draw it). I'm not against new powers, but I am very much against bad, pointless powers (like the solar flare). If Jon is tapping into the emotional spectrum, okay, that's potentially new ground; Jon's mental state providing different abilities....healing powers, empathy....that could work (and plays into the Space Prince angle, and you know I love cosmic Superstuff). But if it's just making constructs? That's not going to add much Jon couldn't already manage to do.

    As with all things, it ultimately comes down to the execution.
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  7. #22
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    How is Naomi?
    Pretty strong recommend from me, man.

    Just going by the solicits and that issue 6 cover.....something about it says "Monitor" to me. But that's about as uninformed an opinion as it can get.
    Bendis and Walker say it's something totally new that's additive in the same way that Kirby's Forth World added to the DCU. Apparently other writers will be able to use this concept even without Naomi being there. That said, Bendis and Walker sandwich Naomi's world in so much DC lore that it's hard to not guess it's some sort of addition to something already established.

    It is, but Im not sure a new power is the best way to exemplify that. Yes, this could be something amazing that enriches the mythos and Jon's character. Or it could be like the super flare and end up a total waste.
    To be fair, that's an argument that can be lobbed at anything that's new, right? Anything could suck. But I understand being gun-shy about it given the last addition was so uninspired. It's honestly the implication that this power just straight up diametrically opposed to the super flare. Instead of being an indiscriminate tool of destruction, it's entirely about construction. That's more Superman than a giant bomb attack, so I'm more interested in it.

    A "emotional spectrum sorcerer" who taps into the power without a ring is a concept I've wanted to see since Sinestro Corps War, and if this is where Bendis goes I will definitely be interested in how it develops. If Jon has to have a new power, he could do far, far worse.



    Yeah, maybe? All comes down to how you read it.

    Anyway, first I fear another "Kyle Rayner" situation. After Hal returned DC did a lot to make Kyle stand out and be unique. And they put so much focus on that, all it really did was highlight the contrast between Kyle and the other Lanterns. It wasn't about Kyle establishing and defining his role through his character, it was about his situation and his different powers. Kyle didnt stand out because of Kyle, he stood out because of Ion and the White Lantern. A character should not be defined by what they can do, but by who they are.
    I can appreciate that a lot. It's a slippery slope, for sure. But I think Jon has a leg up on Kyle because he has the foundation of 10 year old Jon backing him. We knew and loved him as that goofy kid who was fully of optimism. To me, that's only been magnified as of issue 9 where his will and quick thinking helped him live through Earth-3, and come out still a great kid. And that wasn't due to him being a special snowflake or even half kryptonian. It's literally just because he's a good due who was brought up by to great people. That was like a love letter to his strength of character as far as I'm concerned. The addition of a new power or something like that is now secondary to this kid who did something great when most would've been at their lowest.

    But if it's just making constructs? That's not going to add much Jon couldn't already manage to do. As with all things, it ultimately comes down to the execution.
    I wouldn't know if it's just constructs, and even if it is, like you say, it's all in the execution. I've got my specific hopes that are virtually pointless to mention. In the case of Superman's powers basically allowing for anything if you're clever enough? I agree to an extent, but I also think that's incredibly limiting (in a strange way) and besides the point. I think there's something to be said about how the existence of the different powers works in conjunction with the personalities of the heroes. Conner's TTK was used as an approximation because he was a clone--and approximation himself, and his character arc paralleled how he used his powers. As he became less about being the next Superman his powers became less about approximating Superman.

    If Jon's powers a tied to the emotional electromagnetic spectrum then I'm more interested in how they relate to him as a character than a state on his trading card. In terms of his character and his powers, the one thing that has defined both has been a lack of control due to emotions, and being scared about the destructive implications of that lack of control. This is from all the way back in issue 1 of Tomasi and Gleason's Superman where he kills his mom's cat in swell of confusion and emotion. He's afraid to use his powers to save his dad in issue 2 because he's scared he'll hurt him. And then famously he found out there's a future out there where his powers go totally out of control and kill millions.

    A power that lets him use his strong emotions in a constructive fashion is the perfect expression of that growth in this medium. As I said before, this isn't really about their stats cards. You know as well as I do that's not how you go about a story. It's crystallization and constant reminder of that growth in character or character attribute.
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  8. #23
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    Pretty strong recommend from me, man.
    That's enough for me. I mean, I was gonna check it out to begin with, but that cements the decision.

    Bendis and Walker say it's something totally new that's additive in the same way that Kirby's Forth World added to the DCU.
    Well that's ambitious.

    To be fair, that's an argument that can be lobbed at anything that's new, right?
    Sure, but the precedent they've set for themselves doesnt inspire confidence. Bendis has done right by me and Superman, but DC? Not so much.

    I can appreciate that a lot. It's a slippery slope, for sure. But I think Jon has a leg up on Kyle because he has the foundation of 10 year old Jon backing him
    Kyle had eleven years of consistent character development and publication backing him up and it didn't stop DC from getting lost with him.

    You know Im digging on Bendis, even if I've questioned his creative choices. This is just me doing the same thing again (nothin to see here folks, move along! ). Bendis' been, more or less, proving himself to me every step of the way (more or less) so I gotta give him the benefit of the doubt; if he is giving Jon more powers, he'll probably do it in a way I enjoy. And through this conversation Ive realized that I dont have a problem with Clark developing new powers, especially as he gets older and spends more time under the sun....as long as the concept is sound and its handled well. There are even some new powers I advocate him getting now. So being more resistant to the idea with Jon is pretty hypocritical of me. That seems like d-baggy behavior so Im gonna knock that off. You win, good sir. I shall embrace the directions Bendis is taking us.

    If Jon's powers a tied to the emotional electromagnetic spectrum then I'm more interested in how they relate to him as a character than a state on his trading card.
    Damn straight. What concerns me is that this will be more stat card than character. And useless stats at that. But even though I haven't liked some of Bendis' choices, he's still entertained me and done right by the characters. So let's do it.

    Now. In your theory, how are you expecting this to play? Will Jon access the whole spectrum or just part of it?
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  9. #24
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Bendis has done right by me and Superman, but DC? Not so much.
    I feel you on that, man.

    Kyle had eleven years of consistent character development and publication backing him up and it didn't stop DC from getting lost with him.
    I didn't know that. I can see where your concerns are coming from.

    That seems like d-baggy behavior so Im gonna knock that off. You win, good sir. I shall embrace the directions Bendis is taking us.
    Aww dude, you know it's never about winning (and we all have our little biases, dude. Now worries). I value your opinions, and having this conversation really got me to think a lot more critically about powers and what they mean to a character. Before this I was just sort of interested in the novelty of it, if I'm honest. So thank you, good sir

    Damn straight. What concerns me is that this will be more stat card than character. And useless stats at that. But even though I haven't liked some of Bendis' choices, he's still entertained me and done right by the characters. So let's do it.
    I feel, man. And if this were like say Lobdell or Johns on auto-pilot I'd be really scared. It's really just the fact that Bendis hardly ever just goes for the stat boost and leaves it like that. Miles is probably my favorite example because it's just cleanly the idea that it was a different spider from Peter's. There's probably a bunch of heady unpacking that you can do about the camouflage and venom blast and how they relate to his character especially after Spider-verse, but just the expanding of the world and the concept of the spiders is plenty.

    Now. In your theory, how are you expecting this to play? Will Jon access the whole spectrum or just part of it?
    I'm not super sure honestly. I think I just primarily like the idea that this just meshing with what's already there in DC continuity with the emotional electromagnetic spectrum. Every being alive emits it the same way we produce kinetic energy, and Jon is just manipulating it like how Superman in All Star Superman manipulated his bio electrical aura. I'd honestly rather not see him get the whole spectrum just because that visual has too much potential to look obnoxious and cluttered. His constructing looking indigo doesn't help that given those lanterns can use every other lantern power if they are close.

    Probably limit how complex the constructs can get as a way to get across the idea that this is something that's not even supposed to be possible normally. But yeah man I dunno. It's something I need more time and a better idea of how far he wants to take it before I can really dig in to the possibilities.

    Any idea how Sodam Yat used to use his ring in conjunction with his natural Daxamite powers? Might have some ideas there.
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  10. #25
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    I didn't know that. I can see where your concerns are coming from.
    Yeah brother. Eleven years as a solo act, then another year after Hal's return before they really dived into the Ion stuff, then the White Lantern stuff not too long after that. I dunno if you ever read much of Kyle's run back in the day but he was a pretty unique character (compared to Hal, Guy, John, etc). But once Hal and the Corps returned, DC seemed to think that Kyle had to remain a special snowflake, and trying to make that happen made them focus on the powers, and Kyle ended up being written as Hal-lite, rather than as Kyle. He became less unique for all of DC's efforts to give him unique powers.

    Hence my concern for Jon.

    Aww dude, you know it's never about winning (and we all have our little biases, dude. Now worries). I value your opinions, and having this conversation really got me to think a lot more critically about powers and what they mean to a character. Before this I was just sort of interested in the novelty of it, if I'm honest. So thank you, good sir
    Glad I could help, then! I guess being a cranky bastard does have its good points. lol

    I feel, man. And if this were like say Lobdell or Johns on auto-pilot I'd be really scared.
    Nah, you're right man. Bendis has done a good job as far as I'm concerned and has earned some trust. I dont think I'll ever fully trust DC again when it comes to Superman, but Bendis has earned some benefit of the doubt.

    Any idea how Sodam Yat used to use his ring in conjunction with his natural Daxamite powers? Might have some ideas there.
    It's been a while but as I recall they didn't really treat Sodam much differently than a regular Lantern. He didn't have to create shields, and he could punch really hard without a construct, but by and large I dont remember anyone delving into how Sodam could fuse those powersets and do anything truly unique with them. So unless there's stuff Ive forgotten (and there could be) I dont think you'd find much inspiration there. Sodam's narrative seemed largely about his role as the prophesied uber-Lantern or whatever, more than how he could apply his two powersets and combo them off each other.
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  11. #26
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    I've been sort of mulling over the idea of Jon possibly having more specific "deficiencies" as a hybrid that should even be. We already know about the uncontrollable super flare linked to his emotional state, right? Looking into things a bit more, myself and another poster noticed that Jon seems to indicate that he's legitimately hungry several times in two issues (8 and 9 of Superman). In issue 8 after Jon and Jor-El stop that large scale conflict (the image where he uses the mysterious construct), Jon seems a bit weary, so he takes a seat and says "man, anyone else hungry?" Right after that when the Lanterns show up he doesn't seem to be as tired as he let on, but when Arisa asks if he'll stick around to help clean up, Jon says "that depends, will there be food?"

    Then in issue 9 we see Jon just absolutely scarfing down a plate of food at the Fortress. The kid's going so ham in fact that Clark has to stop and ask "when's the last time you ate, bud?" This is fascinating because they are clearly in a yellow sun environment, Jon's powers seem to be in tip-top shape, and Clark just got done talking about how in a yellow sun environment he is self-sufficient.

    So the conclusion we'd most likely come to is "oh, I get it. So he's weaker than a Kryptonian in all aspects, right?" That's directly contradicted twice in this run, and multiple times in Tomasi's run. In terms of this run, in issue 7 we see Jon go out into space, unaided by any sort of space suit or livable atmosphere, and fight a whole armada with a giant smile on his face. Issue 9 shows and tells us that Jon Kent survived years without sunlight inside a very active volcano, escaped by submerging himself completely into lava, and then healed his damaged skin. If he were weaker or less efficient in using yellow sun then none of that should've been possible.

    Thus a good deal of speculation. Is it a Flash situation where he needs to physically eat to in part maintain himself, and on some level his powers are inbuilt, so eating food can give him golden age power even without a sun? Is it like Gladiator where it's based on his confidence/emotional state? If he is based of Gladiator it'd be a pretty funny meta joke given Gladiator is based of Superboy.

    With the whole having to eat, (likely) sleep, but still being a powerhouse, and having a tough as nails will......he sort of reminds me of Invincible lol Even his costume sort of has a bit of that in there, and Mark (Invincible) was also a half-breed. Actually, functionally speaking, Mark was also the son of Superman, if you wanna just come out and say it.
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  12. #27
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    It could also just be that Jon is a teenager and eats like a horse. You might be drawing a false correlation here; this might be tied to Jon's powers or it just might be his age, and Bendis trying to write him appropriately. Have you ever known a teenager who didn't eat enough for six adults?

    No, in all likelihood Jon's appetite does have some connection to how his biology and powers function. The standard Kryptonian is essentially photosynthetic, which is why Clark doesn't really need food or sleep. Jon being a half-blood might mean that his photosynthesis isn't as efficient, so he's gotta consume calories to make up the difference.

    It'd be a solid way to give Jon a new "weakness" to balance out a new power.
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  13. #28
    Mighty Member Kon93's Avatar
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    SB always had a big appetite also,and needed to crash sometimes.

    Jon and kon imo have the opposite problem,but they both have unique "extras" to shore up those issues.

    Jon's weakness is that he can lose control over his power,which means he could possibly absorb to much or unleash to much at anytime.the positive is that he can absorb more,and from more places(ala JLK) and retain and unleash more than a full blood.that by itself makes him immensely powerful,and a threat to everyone.now making constructs could possibly be LESS about tapping into a emotional spectrum,and more like his dad's superman blue energy construct ability he used when he couldn't stay solid.

    Kons weakness is possibly that he cant absorb and process solar energy as well as full bloods and nowhere near as well Jon can.that can make him less God and more man when it comes to going the distance and not being sustained completely by just photosynthesis like full bloods.course cadmus was smart they knew their clone needed a edge and a backup in case their "quasi" kryptonian clone didnt measure up,TTK was that backup.the fact that he has a intentional "edge" built in makes him potentially more powerful than all the full bloods and jon,but only possible.TTK is not just for dissembling and shockwaves,it can help him lift and grab ppl without breaking apart or killing them,controlling the direction of his heat vision,block kryptonite and magic,give him another level of supersenses(touch scan and microcellular vibrational),and let's not forget invisibility he could have easily.like I said potentially more powerful,but it's up to DC and the writers.

    Hopefully they stay away from the lantern stuff and more the superman blue type potential.
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  14. #29
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    But that's not really what Superman Blue did. He could adjust his density, create fields, turn into electricity, adjust his electromagnetic wave length, magnetism, and take in electricity.

    If I recall it was specifically the suit that made Superman Blue solid. To be honest with you, what Jon did looks nothing like electricity.

    Edit: Just did some research and the way he made himself solid was actually be phasing himself into our reality because as electric Superman he's slightly out of tune. It wasn't a power or even a construct though. However, he could make a rudimentary "solid energy wall" and box. However it was never anything even remotely as complex as a Green Lantern or what Jon seems to be doing (which has far more in common with a lantern). And as I said before, Jon's construct doesn't really look like any sort of electricity like Blue's did. It looks like the construct of a lantern.

    The reason why I'm actually very ok with Jon possibly having the ability to manipulate his personal emotional electromagnetic spectrum is because the way Johns set it up when he came up with it. He makes it abundantly clear that every single living creature produces the emotional spectrum. It's not something inherently unique to the Lanterns. It's like every creature having a bio electrical aura. Conceptually, it's just a thing that's part of the DCU.

    So, Jon's genetics somehow giving him "super emotions" thus allowing him to manipulate the spectrum makes some sense. Again, it's not actually something unique to a Lantern ring. Plus, it's not as if Kryptonians are strangers to light.
    Last edited by Superlad93; 04-18-2019 at 09:04 PM.
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  15. #30
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Going back a few posts here, as a Kyle fan things sure got rough once Hal came back. But what you begin to realize is that the writers who come to pick up the ball, besides those looking for an easy casualty, are the ones who care. If every character had a run like Justin Jordan on New Guardians.

    Jon is much safer, as we see with his status while Superboys Kal and Kon are on the table. He's probably as safe as Damian aside from his aging situation.

    But back on lanterns and the general idea of emotion fueled power, they certainly haven't been working to eliminate the Gohan similarities. While Clark is very explicitly written to emphasize restraint (it's clear in many scenes including at least one convo with Jon, but also made plain in interviews like the Polygon one with Tom King) Jon is still young and raw. Maybe less now, I guess. But his key scenes in the character arc since Rebirth have involved emotional surges or will to force his way as a super. Clark is only more humble after seeing everything under each sun but Jon is at a stage before that. If he's going to accomplish anything new it seems to be rising under duress. I'm expecting to see a similar scene when they face Rogol Zaar or something.
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