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  1. #16
    Rumbles Moderator Guy1's Avatar
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    It should also be noted that Vader was toying with Luke.
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  2. #17
    Rumbles Moderator Guy1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hareluyafan1 View Post
    Nope. Sure a lot of SW movie have choreography issues, but none are as bad as the mess that was the Praetorian Guard fight.



    Think again.



    Beside the fact that anything from Disney Wars and TLJ in particular belongs in a septic tank, the guards are bungling idiots who lost to an untrained rookie and a guy who also lost to an untrained rookie. That's not even accounting for their magically disappearing knives or their habit of deliberately missing.

    Grievous has killed seasoned Jedi Masters. So have his Magna-Guards. They'd slaughter those loser guards. Heck, the kids from SW Lego would have better odds against Grievous and his Magna-Guards.
    Might want to tone it down a notch hareluya.
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  3. #18
    Extraordinary Member Iron_Twister's Avatar
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    Yeah, I'm honestly one of those guys who always thought it's nonsense to think Luke was rubbish before training with Yoda. Yeah, he was never gonna be a match against Vader but Luke was a capable fighter still during the Galactic Civil War prior to Empire Strikes Back. Kind of helps canon comics made it clear he had a sorta instructor whose ironically his enemy during that gap.



    And he took out an AT-AT single handily when his entire side, barring the Chuck Norris of pilots we call Wedge Antilles, couldn't take them out by firepower. I'm now throughly convinced his training with Yoda is less refining Luke's technique and more like teach him the dangers of the dark side as Luke is growing more desperate to win the war despite his growing powers. Cause he was doing a stupid plethora amount of skills in Return of the Jedi despite cutting his training with Yoda.

    Then I look back at Chirrut Imwe, who just by faith in the force did he manage to not get hit by elite troopers, thus making Jedi who trained since childhood look like know it all idiots during Order 66.

  4. #19
    nice to meet ya! master of read's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy1 View Post
    It should also be noted that Vader was toying with Luke.
    at least when vader started getting serious, he was treating luke like a chump. he found it impressive that luke could actually hold his own for a bit but still, if vader wanted luke dead, he'd be dead.

    while rey, without having any on-screen saber training outside of her practicing with a rock, was able to clean house against those red guys.

  5. #20
    Astonishing Member Lord Falcon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron_Twister View Post
    Yeah, I'm honestly one of those guys who always thought it's nonsense to think Luke was rubbish before training with Yoda. Yeah, he was never gonna be a match against Vader but Luke was a capable fighter still during the Galactic Civil War prior to Empire Strikes Back. Kind of helps canon comics made it clear he had a sorta instructor whose ironically his enemy during that gap.



    And he took out an AT-AT single handily when his entire side, barring the Chuck Norris of pilots we call Wedge Antilles, couldn't take them out by firepower. I'm now throughly convinced his training with Yoda is less refining Luke's technique and more like teach him the dangers of the dark side as Luke is growing more desperate to win the war despite his growing powers. Cause he was doing a stupid plethora amount of skills in Return of the Jedi despite cutting his training with Yoda.

    Then I look back at Chirrut Imwe, who just by faith in the force did he manage to not get hit by elite troopers, thus making Jedi who trained since childhood look like know it all idiots during Order 66.
    Chirrut Imwe would have been so OP with actual force training and a lightsaber. He was already putting 99.9% of Jedi to shame with a bow caster walking stick.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stigmazilla View Post
    Luke managed to fight Vader with barely any training,
    Luke had at least a few weeks training with Yoda, possibly months. Plus Yoda was actually willing to teach him once he'd gotten over his initial reluctance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stigmazilla View Post
    and Rey had training from Luke at that point.
    What training? He didn't really tell her anything she didn't already know. That being said...

    Quote Originally Posted by Stigmazilla View Post
    You are entitled to your opinion but you dont need to be hostile about it.
    You're absolutely right. I did cross the line there and that's not on. If you're reading this moonknight11, I apologise for being a jerk.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stigmazilla View Post
    I'd say the guards aren't that bad and could probably pull a few wins against just Grevious, over all though he's pretty intense and without the force is too much for most to go up against
    You are of course entitled to your opinion but honestly, what have the PG's done to indicate they could pose any kind of challenge to Grievous? They have no feats. None.

    Quote Originally Posted by master of read
    luke had a bit more hands-on training from yoda while rey only got a few words from a reluctant luke who didn't teach her anything about lightsaber combat. she mainly did her own thing. there is a difference between learning from a eager but sometimes frustrated yoda and a depressed and uninterested luke.
    This.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy1 View Post
    It should also be noted that Vader was toying with Luke.
    People love to use this to try and lowball Luke but the fact is Vader himself was impressed with how Luke fared (this is further shown in "Shadows of the Empire"), plus Vader didn't intend to get a face-full of vapours, get booted off a platform or get his shoulder tagged.

    I mean yes, obviously if Vader had wanted to kill him he would have, but even so Luke did good in that fight all things considered.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy1 View Post
    Might want to tone it down a notch hareluya.
    You're absolutely right. Sorry about that.

    Quote Originally Posted by master of read
    while rey, without having any on-screen saber training outside of her practicing with a rock, was able to clean house against those red guys.
    Speaking of which:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irvU...&index=21&t=0s

  8. #23
    nice to meet ya! master of read's Avatar
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    i know we aren't using this version of GG but i still love this scene. grievous was already a monster who was an utter jedi killer. and yet, he was count dooku, schooling him like a punk in training. this is just a testament to just how badass dooku was back then. dooku would've merc'd the PG and never used a single ounce of the force.

  9. #24
    Rumbles Moderator Guy1's Avatar
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    Even Live Action Dooku monstered all over Obi-Wan and Annie the first time they met. It took freaking Yoda showing up to make him run away.

    Sure, Annie beat him in the rematch but he'd been level grinding and Dooku still did pretty good there.
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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by master of read View Post


    i know we aren't using this version of GG but i still love this scene. grievous was already a monster who was an utter jedi killer. and yet, he was count dooku, schooling him like a punk in training. this is just a testament to just how badass dooku was back then. dooku would've merc'd the PG and never used a single ounce of the force.
    I love that scene. I've always wondered if Dooku's line about holding the sabre too tightly and then too lightly is a homage to "Scaramouche."

  11. #26
    nice to meet ya! master of read's Avatar
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    snip
    Even Live Action Dooku monstered all over Obi-Wan and Annie the first time they met. It took freaking Yoda showing up to make him run away.

    Sure, Annie beat him in the rematch but he'd been level grinding and Dooku still did pretty good there.[/QUOTE]

    it's mostly due to the styles of lightsaber combat at the time. saber to saber combat styles were being phased out, since a jedi was more likely to face blaster fire than a saber user. dooku, while he was still with the jedi, thought they should still teach and train in saber to saber combat and said that it would be their downfall. fast forward to AOTC and dooku was considered ones of the best duelist in the galaxy, due to his style being tailor-made for this, while younger jedi like annie and obiwan weren't trained for this. add to this his unique lightsaber, which gave him a further advantage due to the curved hilt allowing dooku to strike at odd angles, and you see why most jedi didn't want to fight dooku. only yoda's experience and own unique fighting style was a good counter to dooku's.


  12. #27
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    Not sure because in cannon he was so inconsistent

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy1 View Post
    It should also be noted that Vader was toying with Luke.
    Yeah. Vader wasn't fighting Luke seriously, he was trying to get his son to join him. And even then Luke ended the fight bloodied, bruised, his hand cut off, and having to jump down a shaft to escape Vader.
    Critics who treat adult as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence.
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  14. #29
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    honestly, Grievous stands a decent chance of winning even if he's all by himself, has no weapons, and has to fight them bare-handed. he's strong enough to put a several inch deep dent in the side of a space ship with a single punch. he's also strong enough to casually toss people 10-15 feet. he's strong enough where he could probably crack open the guards like a pistachio. he's also proven that he can take what would be crippling or fatal damage to normal humans and just keep fighting.

    if you're giving him light sabers he plows through the guards like a lawnmower. and this is all assuming that we're using the jobber-version from the movies and the Clone Wars cartoon. the Tartakovsky version could probably solo the entire Praetorian Guards and take out Kylo and Rey at the same time.

  15. #30
    Mighty Member moonknight11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hareluyafan1 View Post
    Nope. Sure a lot of SW movie have choreography issues, but none are as bad as the mess that was the Praetorian Guard fight.





    Beside the fact that anything from Disney Wars and TLJ in particular belongs in a septic tank, the guards are bungling idiots who lost to an untrained rookie and a guy who also lost to an untrained rookie. That's not even accounting for their magically disappearing knives or their habit of deliberately missing.

    Grievous has killed seasoned Jedi Masters. So have his Magna-Guards. They'd slaughter those loser guards. Heck, the kids from SW Lego would have better odds against Grievous and his Magna-Guards.
    If we ignore context, Grievous gets bodied by Gungans and is seriously threatened by a rookie with less force potential than Rey. He's not Jedi master tier at all, as his consistent record of losing shows, and he's too incompetent to use his four arms effectively unlike 2d Grievous. He however has a degree of super-strength to help him out and lightsabers so he's not at a total loss here.

    As for what i've bolded the prequels are orders of magnitude worse about that. The menace must remain phantom after all.

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