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  1. #91
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dboi2001 View Post
    I don’t remember Fury being a jerk in the Ultimates
    All the Ultimate's were jerks, basically.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    All the Ultimate's were jerks, basically.
    How were Thor, Iron Man, Captain America, Hawkeye and Wasp jerks. Even Hank regretted hurting Jan and was kicked off of the Ultimates
    Last edited by Dboi2001; 08-09-2020 at 06:27 PM.

  3. #93
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    As for movie star lord I thought he was okay for the most part in the Guardians solo movies though I didnít love him like most did. He had Gunnís typical immature and childish humor with cringey writing but so did everyone else. I also donít care much for 80a music. But the final straw for me was screwing over the Avengers in IW by waking Thanos up from his trance. I know one could argue it was Quill getting hit with the idiot stick but he just came off as a complete idiot

    As for the comics I think itís just a product of Bendisí terrible writing and flanderization. Iím sure marvel editorial wanted star lord to mimic Pratt but Bendis just didnít make it work and basically killed cosmic marvel

  4. #94
    Astonishing Member From The Shadows's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    Are you a secret Hoff fan? You chose the perfect juxtaposition to suggest he was the better Fury. He looks the part there.
    I decided to see him as Nick Fury Jr. That was revealed not long in the comics after the films. No one is going to call him Nick Jr in person just Nick. Despite the fact I never liked the films much. Kinda boring to me,

  5. #95
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dboi2001 View Post
    How were Thor, Iron Man, Captain America, Hawkeye and Wasp jerks. Even Hank regretted hurting Jan and was kicked off of the Ultimates
    How was selfish I don't want to help with my God powers, Arrogant Self destructive," This A doesn't stand for France", I kill everything moving and Wasp jerks?

  6. #96
    Mighty Member chamber-music's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dboi2001 View Post
    How were Thor, Iron Man, Captain America, Hawkeye and Wasp jerks. Even Hank regretted hurting Jan and was kicked off of the Ultimates
    Mark Millar's initial Ultimates run was intentionally satirical, deconstructionist, subversive and back humored.

    Millar was mocking the War on Terror and 'freedom fries' thing at the time.
    “People would say, ‘I joined the army after reading The Ultimates because I wanted to make a difference in the Middle East,’ and I was like, ‘Well, I kinda meant the opposite of that,’” Millar recalled with a laugh.
    Captain America is a cold, stern jingoistic neoconservative parody, Hulk is a genocidal cannibal, Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver are an incestuous couple, Ultimate Hawkeye is a hardened murderous emo black-ops soldier, Black Widow is child murdering anti-American terrorist, Giant-Man is a bipolar wife frequent wife beater, Wasp is a browbeaten mutant who lays and eats her own larvae, Iron Man is a drunk cynical gleeful war profiteer, Thor is crazy and Nick Fury was a serial adulterer (even sleeping with his mother in law and all his wife's friends).

    The writers after Millar tried to tone down some of these aspects a bit but the characters were intentionally made to be jerk versions of their 616 counterparts
    Last edited by chamber-music; 08-09-2020 at 11:53 PM.

  7. #97
    see beauty in all things. charliehustle415's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chamber-music View Post
    Mark Millar's initial Ultimates run was intentionally satirical, deconstructionist, subversive and back humored.

    Millar was mocking the War on Terror and 'freedom fries' thing at the time.


    Captain America is a cold, stern jingoistic neoconservative parody, Hulk is a genocidal cannibal, Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver are an incestuous couple, Ultimate Hawkeye is a hardened murderous emo black-ops soldier, Black Widow is child murdering anti-American terrorist, Giant-Man is a bipolar wife frequent wife beater, Wasp is a browbeaten mutant who lays and eats her own larvae, Iron Man is a drunk cynical gleeful war profiteer, Thor is crazy and Nick Fury was a serial adulterer (even sleeping with his mother in law and all his wife's friends).

    The writers after Millar tried to tone down some of these aspects a bit but the characters were intentionally made to be jerk versions of their 616 counterparts
    Great summation of The Ultimates, if they popped up in the 616 they would be a super-villain team - no doubt about it.

    The 616 counterparts would be horrified by them.

  8. #98
    Astonishing Member Gaastra's Avatar
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    but hasn't had success as a solo act in movies (yet). He's headlined animation but not had great success there.
    Funny thing is the 80s cartoon (with a episodes starring she-hulk!) only lasted one season. Yet it and amazing friends aired on saturday mornings for years in reruns! They just kept re-airing it!


    [IMG][/IMG]


    The live action series did so well they released a big screen movie overseas! Some claim it did air in american movies for a limited run but i have never found proof it did. It did air overseas in wide release!

    It was called "bride of the incredible hulk" and did air in america split into two parts as episodes of the show renamed "married."


    [IMG][/IMG]

  9. #99
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chamber-music View Post
    Mark Millar's initial Ultimates run was intentionally satirical, deconstructionist, subversive and back humored.
    I think people are giving too much credit to Mark Millar. Millar has spun some hooey about his Ultimates being a deconstruction but the actual story is incoherent and uncontrolled, and you often get the sense that Millar is attracted to the repulsive behavior he shows in the story.

    Millar is not Alan Moore, or Neil Gaiman,t or even Garth Ennis. He's not that intelligent or capable a writer. He's blunt and entirely lacking in subtlety which by itself doesn't mean that a writer is lacking provided they play to their strengths and avoid their weaknesses, but when you do something like "Doing a story about a rebooted version of a superteam on the surface but is secretly a satire and deconstruction" you do need those qualities.

    Millar was mocking the War on Terror and 'freedom fries' thing at the time.
    Millar was indulging in the clickbait of its time. He used talking points and ideas from the real world and put in the comics to make the Ultimates seem topical and relevant. But there was no follow-through or real analysis.

    Millar's Ultimates were edgelord a--holes who were nonetheless glorified as heroes and made all the right decisions. "Does this 'A' stand for France?" when Cap bashes and kills a Chitauri dude is played unironically and glorified as a badass moment (especially given that it gets a full page splash). Hulk becoming a cannibal was played as black comedy...the Ultimates take turns insulting Bruce for being an incel, Bruce takes it bad, goes on a rampage and kills a 1000 people, and the entire thing is written off by the Ultimates as a PR stunt to be managed. That's not deconstruction at all. The seriousness of killing all those people is glossed over in the story, and a few issues later Hulk is unleashed against the Chitauri to save the day unironically.

  10. #100
    Mighty Member chamber-music's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    I think people are giving too much credit to Mark Millar. Millar has spun some hooey about his Ultimates being a deconstruction but the actual story is incoherent and uncontrolled, and you often get the sense that Millar is attracted to the repulsive behavior he shows in the story.

    Millar is not Alan Moore, or Neil Gaiman,t or even Garth Ennis. He's not that intelligent or capable a writer. He's blunt and entirely lacking in subtlety which by itself doesn't mean that a writer is lacking provided they play to their strengths and avoid their weaknesses, but when you do something like "Doing a story about a rebooted version of a superteam on the surface but is secretly a satire and deconstruction" you do need those qualities.



    Millar was indulging in the clickbait of its time. He used talking points and ideas from the real world and put in the comics to make the Ultimates seem topical and relevant. But there was no follow-through or real analysis.

    Millar's Ultimates were edgelord a--holes who were nonetheless glorified as heroes and made all the right decisions. "Does this 'A' stand for France?" when Cap bashes and kills a Chitauri dude is played unironically and glorified as a badass moment (especially given that it gets a full page splash). Hulk becoming a cannibal was played as black comedy...the Ultimates take turns insulting Bruce for being an incel, Bruce takes it bad, goes on a rampage and kills a 1000 people, and the entire thing is written off by the Ultimates as a PR stunt to be managed. That's not deconstruction at all. The seriousness of killing all those people is glossed over in the story, and a few issues later Hulk is unleashed against the Chitauri to save the day unironically.
    I completlely agree with you. My discription was just what Millar has said himself, I'm not a fan of the Ultimates. Personally I feel like everyhting in the Ultimates was done better the first time around with Ellis on the Authority (which was followed by Millar's run). Modern blockbuster superheroics taking place in a geopolitical landscape closer to the real world. All the shock value character portryals I could of done without.

    Ultimates was the teenage 4chan edgelord's version of the Avengers.
    Last edited by chamber-music; 08-10-2020 at 08:36 AM.

  11. #101

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    I didn't care for Chris Pratt's Star-lord, because it's just Pratt playing the same character he does in every role.
    Was Curlytop

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    How was selfish I don't want to help with my God powers, Arrogant Self destructive," This A doesn't stand for France", I kill everything moving and Wasp jerks?
    Ok that was a bit of a dick move but he still convinced Bush to double the international aid budget (thus helping way more people), defeated Hulk and Thor was always arrogant. How was Stark self destructive? Out of all the avengers he was changed the least. Cap admit to fury later on that it was a stupid thing to say. Hawkeye always killed. He certainly was much more sympathetic than 616 Hawkeye

  13. #103
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dboi2001 View Post
    Ok that was a bit of a dick move but he still convinced Bush to double the international aid budget (thus helping way more people), defeated Hulk and Thor was always arrogant. How was Stark self destructive? Out of all the avengers he was changed the least. Cap admit to fury later on that it was a stupid thing to say. Hawkeye always killed. He certainly was much more sympathetic than 616 Hawkeye
    That's more an Aaron thing than actual true to 616 Thor.

    When has Hawkeye always killed? Pre-Bendis he was the Avenger least likely to kill. As bad as what happened to his family is I don't think that makes him more sympathetic to 616 Clint.

  14. #104
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    Literally everything you said about the Ultimates was wrong. The Ultimates weren’t edge lord a holes they were just flawed people. Again Cap did admit the “A is for France” thing was stupid. Hell I even prefer ultimate Hank Pym over 616 Hank. And no it didn’t take Hulk murdering a ton of people lightly and Banner did admit he made a terrible mistake but he didn’t want the Ultimates to get shut down

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    That's more an Aaron thing than actual true to 616 Thor.

    When has Hawkeye always killed? Pre-Bendis he was the Avenger least likely to kill. As bad as what happened to his family is I don't think that makes him more sympathetic to 616 Clint.
    Maybe I’m just misremembering things but you’re telling me a guy with a bow and arrow wouldn’t realistically kill? Not very many marvel heroes have a no killing rule so why should Hawkeye exactly? I don’t see the issue with Hawkeye, a secret agent, killing. How about the mcu do you think it was a mistake to make Hawkeye a killer? I don’t even see the problem with Hawkeye killing

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