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  1. #1
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Post How fast did/do DC retcon itself

    I'm interested in these books. The History of DC universe, World of Krypton, and Aquaman the Atlantis Chronicles that's available in DC digital. They're all created in the 80s, I think.
    I know they're... probably no longer canon, but it made me curious, for the people who saw it in real time... How long was it before DC decided they're no longer canon?

    I only saw the New 52-Rebirth transition in real time. About 5 years. Now some of New 52 is no longer canon, or only partially canon, and you have to fill in the blanks yourself until they actually clarify it.

    How long did it take the first time?

  2. #2
    Fantastic Member qwertyuiop1998's Avatar
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    New 52 still in canon,rebirth just bring many post-crisis elements.
    As for title question,about dozens years DC may retcon itself
    "Dangerous Zombie! Transform!! Click And Load! Buggle UP! Danger! Danger! Death The Crisis! Dangerous Zombie!" Kamen Rider Gemn
    (In first he's mysterious and evil and now he's psycho and crazy and insane and evil AND "The Meme Lord"LOL.)

  3. #3
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    HISTORY OF THE DC UNIVERSE was almost immediately contradicted after it came out in 1986. There are two WORLD OF KRYPTON series. The first was published in 1979 and was in continuity until MAN OF STEEL came out in 1986. The second was published in 1987 - 1988 and I guess it started to get contradicted in the early 2000s. I bought all the ATLANTIS CHRONICLES when they came out in 1990, but I hardly read any of them--plus I don't know that much about Aquaman continuity--since it was written by Peter David, I would guess it remained in continuity as long as his Aquaman was in continuity. Probably most of the stuff about the history is still true, but the more recent stuff about Aquaman has been contradicted by other runs.

  4. #4
    Reader of Stuff Hilden B. Lade's Avatar
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    It's not one of the books you listed but I think Superman Birthright was made the canon origin for Superman, only to be retconned after it ended almost immediately (like in one or two years) by Infinite Crisis.

  5. #5
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    DC was very non-commital about the Superman continuity. There was the "Return to Krypton" story in 2000 that was supposed to retcon Superman and then they decided against it. BIRTHRIGHT in 2003 - 2004 was supposed to be in continuity, but then they decided against that. So Superman's origins were in a grey area for the early 2000s until INFINITE CRISIS in 2005 - 2006 pulled the trigger. And even then, with One Year Later, it was all very fuzzy.

  6. #6
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    HISTORY OF THE DC UNIVERSE was almost immediately contradicted after it came out in 1986. There are two WORLD OF KRYPTON series. The first was published in 1979 and was in continuity until MAN OF STEEL came out in 1986. The second was published in 1987 - 1988 and I guess it started to get contradicted in the early 2000s. I bought all the ATLANTIS CHRONICLES when they came out in 1990, but I hardly read any of them--plus I don't know that much about Aquaman continuity--since it was written by Peter David, I would guess it remained in continuity as long as his Aquaman was in continuity. Probably most of the stuff about the history is still true, but the more recent stuff about Aquaman has been contradicted by other runs.
    What contradicted History of The DC Universe?

    By the sound of it The Chronicles of Atlantis is one of those lore that can make a return should anyone decide they want to use it, but for the most part will be ignored since I imagine they don't have a lot of relevant to what's happening on Aquaman right now unless they want to bring back a character or event from Atlantis era, like Johns' Dead King.

    ...was Dead King created by Johns or an old character I wonder.

    There's so many Superman origin I'm not gonna even bother to shift through which one is canon. I feel like for characters like Superman or Batman, the details of their origin doesn't matter as much as the essence. Krypton, Smallville, Kryptonite, Crime Alley, training, and so on... we know the gist. The details only matter if they're making a story in the present that brings back elements of the past, such as who destroyed Krypton or which one of Batman's teacher has an evil kid that wants to kill him.

  7. #7
    Ultimate Member Lee Stone's Avatar
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    I recall Roy Thomas doing an origin issue for Dr. Fate in All-Star Squadron (#47, cover dated July 1985)...
    He had been told when Crisis started that his books, All-Star Squadron and Infinity, Inc., would be left virtually untouched and that they (and Earth-2) would be separated from the main DCU.

    Then, after DC backed out on that promise and broke Thomas's spirit, they had him retell the origins of all of DC's Golden Age heroes in Secret Origins to reconcile them with the new 'One Earth' directive.
    And in #24 (cover dated March 1988), Thomas re-did his Dr. Fate origin to fit him into the new Earth.
    "There's magic in the sound of analog audio." - CNET.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    What contradicted History of The DC Universe?
    Without going and looking through the pages right now, I do remember we saw Captain Atom as he appeared in the Charlton comics, but some months later Cary Bates and Pat Broderick gave him a new origin story and a new look.

    Not everything changed--not right away--but there were little things like that which contradicted it.

  9. #9
    Ultimate Member Lee Stone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    Without going and looking through the pages right now, I do remember we saw Captain Atom as he appeared in the Charlton comics, but some months later Cary Bates and Pat Broderick gave him a new origin story and a new look.

    Not everything changed--not right away--but there were little things like that which contradicted it.
    I think it was Hawkworld.

    The Krypton scene in #1 follows the styles that Byrne had established.
    Perez being involved insured that Wonder Woman would line up.
    And they wisely waited until Man of Steel had finished before releasing History of the DCU.

    If they had brought it out immediately after Crisis it would've been totally different and retconned away with Man of Steel. Just like Booster Gold #7.
    "There's magic in the sound of analog audio." - CNET.

  10. #10
    insulin4all CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    DC was very non-commital about the Superman continuity. There was the "Return to Krypton" story in 2000 that was supposed to retcon Superman and then they decided against it. BIRTHRIGHT in 2003 - 2004 was supposed to be in continuity, but then they decided against that. So Superman's origins were in a grey area for the early 2000s until INFINITE CRISIS in 2005 - 2006 pulled the trigger. And even then, with One Year Later, it was all very fuzzy.
    Ultimately the Superman origin simplifies to this:


  11. #11
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    See that kind of thing makes me wonder... do they tell every department about the new lore or do they just give them the task and tell them to do whatever without looking around if anybody else have done it?

    Because during the New 52 and Rebirth the latter is my impression.

    ...or maybe the company themselves don't know what they want for their universe or characters, but they still have to publish something, so they let writers made a lore and publish it, only to cancel them immediately the moment they feel like it doesn't fit their vision.

    Man if I know they've been doing that since 1980s I wouldn't even bother getting into comics. The lore, the crossovers are what interest me.

    I also thought... when I first got into comics, I just assume, because they have so many history, that they have a handbook ready that every writer can look up so they can get their facts straight, but that's been proven wrong. Oh so wrong. The writers themselves prove this by posting the research they did, which is reading and probably buying the books themselves... or admit they forgot some facts, don't have time to do a thorough research and only read the most recent issues, don't do their research, or straight up refusing to do research because they don't want previous version to affect their vision.

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