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  1. #1
    Lazy Struggler BitParallel's Avatar
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    Default Tony’s Adoption

    A follow up thread to the Bendis’ Ironman thread.

    I, for one, really dislike the whole adoption story. They chose Tony Stark out of the other characters and retcon his childhood. Plus, the quality of the story was garbage. Jeez, horrible!
    I know I am not alone in this, almost everyone I know really dislike it and we all got our own retcons. I read a comment on reddit basically saying that Steve should tell Tony that Recorders have always lied to ‘em in the past and this is just another lie of theirs.

    And a smart user by the name davew128 head-cannoning the whole adoption story as an LMD or something.

    So, How will you retcon this mess ?

  2. #2
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    I like what's being done with it currently. Today's issue of Tony Stark was awesome, and it wouldn't have happened without the adoption story. Gillen and Bendis' use of the idea was...sloppy...at best, but Slott has done something amazing with the idea, so I think it should be preserved.

  3. #3
    iMan 42s
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    Arno is the only good thing to have come out of Gillen's run.

    The whole thing with Tony's parents and trying to hamfist Rocker mom into Tony's life is not only forced but is also half-baked by Bendis's incompetence in the Riri era and Slott's chronic lateness. By god both of them can't make it work and I'm still struggling to figure out why we're still on this. Arno worked, people liked Arno, and people wanted to see more of Arno, instead we got Rocker mom, a character nobody wanted.

    Every time we go back and see Howard and Maria Stark something apart of the history over complicates Iron man's backstory to the point it's almost like looking at an X-men wikipedia page. Just stop, reboot, it didn't work, but people liked Arno. Just keep Arno. I don't know why it's that hard for Marvel to understand. And for that matter with all of the synergy forced into Gillen's run, what was the endgame for that? Was this a thing the MCU was going into? Was this a leftover thing that made its way into the comics like the GOTG team-up? It's just a mess.
    -----------------------------------
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  4. #4
    IRON MAN Tony Stark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperiorIronman View Post
    Arno is the only good thing to have come out of Gillen's run.

    The whole thing with Tony's parents and trying to hamfist Rocker mom into Tony's life is not only forced but is also half-baked by Bendis's incompetence in the Riri era and Slott's chronic lateness. By god both of them can't make it work and I'm still struggling to figure out why we're still on this. Arno worked, people liked Arno, and people wanted to see more of Arno, instead we got Rocker mom, a character nobody wanted.

    Every time we go back and see Howard and Maria Stark something apart of the history over complicates Iron man's backstory to the point it's almost like looking at an X-men wikipedia page. Just stop, reboot, it didn't work, but people liked Arno. Just keep Arno. I don't know why it's that hard for Marvel to understand. And for that matter with all of the synergy forced into Gillen's run, what was the endgame for that? Was this a thing the MCU was going into? Was this a leftover thing that made its way into the comics like the GOTG team-up? It's just a mess.
    You stated a lot of what I was going to say. I don't know why they let the whole angle and how it went down go in the first place. To me if Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, Larry Lieber and Don Heck create you and make your origin. No one else has to touch it. Messing with a characters origin is let messing with the foundation of a building. You add to it. Layer it. Not screw with what has helped it stand tall for so many years.
    Last edited by Tony Stark; 04-17-2019 at 10:03 PM.
    " I've learned that free will isn't a gift-it's muscle that needs to be exercised-and only when it's in peak condition-is a man truly awake" TONY STARK

  5. #5
    Mighty Member Vordan's Avatar
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    I’m amazed in the era of MCU synergy when they’ve tried so desperately to attract RDJ fans to Iron Man comics, they’ve kept this plot point that completely sets 616 Tony and MCU Tony apart. Honestly I think it’s stupid and I wish they’d just retcon it away.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    I’m amazed in the era of MCU synergy when they’ve tried so desperately to attract RDJ fans to Iron Man comics, they’ve kept this plot point that completely sets 616 Tony and MCU Tony apart. Honestly I think it’s stupid and I wish they’d just retcon it away.
    Actually it sort of makes sense.

    The age gap between Tony and his parents is really big. Making Tony adopted gives an excuse for that.

  7. #7
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    I have an almost complete run of Iron-man and I have never really been keen on the adoption angle. As a story idea? Yes, it opened up new avenues for potential storylines. Some very interesting ones. It just hasn't been executed, or utilized, properly. Although Slott is doing some interesting things with it.

    However, I do think Howard should be reinstated as Tony's biological father. Just retcon that Arno's health slowly declined over a period of months. With Howard seeking any means to "cure" his heir. Obviously, due to his tampering during the pregnancy, Maria would be rendered sterile. So, faced with that fact, Howard has an affair with Amanda. Which results in Tony's conception. Howard comes up the adoption angle to hide his infidelity from Maria. Which would explain why Howard was so harsh towards Tony. Because it was a constant reminder of the affair.

    Howard was an alcoholic. I feel his alcoholism began taking hold with Arno's worsening condition. His inability to come to terms with his actions, plus the fact his one son was now crippled, would fester and ultimately be taken out on Tony. Behaviour that would have adverse effects on Tony himself. So him having an affair and a unintended pregnancy occur isn't out of the realm of possibility.

    It is also fitting that the son meant to replace the other is, ultimately, the one who finds the "cure" to save the other.

  8. #8
    Lazy Struggler BitParallel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somecrazyaussie View Post
    I have an almost complete run of Iron-man and I have never really been keen on the adoption angle. As a story idea? Yes, it opened up new avenues for potential storylines. Some very interesting ones. It just hasn't been executed, or utilized, properly. Although Slott is doing some interesting things with it.

    However, I do think Howard should be reinstated as Tony's biological father. Just retcon that Arno's health slowly declined over a period of months. With Howard seeking any means to "cure" his heir. Obviously, due to his tampering during the pregnancy, Maria would be rendered sterile. So, faced with that fact, Howard has an affair with Amanda. Which results in Tony's conception. Howard comes up the adoption angle to hide his infidelity from Maria. Which would explain why Howard was so harsh towards Tony. Because it was a constant reminder of the affair.

    Howard was an alcoholic. I feel his alcoholism began taking hold with Arno's worsening condition. His inability to come to terms with his actions, plus the fact his one son was now crippled, would fester and ultimately be taken out on Tony. Behaviour that would have adverse effects on Tony himself. So him having an affair and a unintended pregnancy occur isn't out of the realm of possibility.

    It is also fitting that the son meant to replace the other is, ultimately, the one who finds the "cure" to save the other.
    I am all for thisss!! Yess, this is it. Marvel should just do this.

    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    Actually it sort of makes sense.

    The age gap between Tony and his parents is really big. Making Tony adopted gives an excuse for that.
    But isn’t Arno and Tony the same age? Maybe few months apart?

  9. #9
    Extraordinary Member Mike_Murdock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
    You stated a lot of what I was going to say. I don't know why they let the whole angle and how it went down go in the first place. To me if Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, Larry Lieber and Don Heck create you and make your origin. No one else has to touch it. Messing with a characters origin is let messing with the foundation of a building. You add to it. Layer it. Not screw with what has helped it stand tall for so many years.
    Howard Stark had next to no role in Stan Lee's Iron Man. His first appearance was in 1970 with Iron Man #28 by Archie Goodwin. I'm seeing Maria Stark was Bill Mantlo in #104. Likewise, the whole thing with Tony getting his company from his father was a retcon as well (see here).

    Anyway, I can't comment on Gillen's run since I haven't read it. But I know someone who had a contentious childhood with their parents and was adopted and Bendis's Iron Man rang true to me here. That doesn't mean this retcon of the more widely-established retcon was a good idea, but I thought it built off that for a good story. I'd also say it doesn't matter who someone's biological parents are. The Starks are Tony's parents because they're the ones who raised him. I don't get why it's suddenly ruining what came before to say that half of Tony's DNA doesn't come from Maria Stark and the other half doesn't come from Howard Stark.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by BitParallel View Post
    I am all for thisss!! Yess, this is it. Marvel should just do this.
    Thanks. Actually, something similar could also be used to retcon Magneto back to being Wanda and Pietro's father. All Marvel has to do is say Magda was a latent Inhuman. Thus making both Wanda and Pietro mutant/inhuman hybrids. That way, during AXIS when she casts the blood spell, it is the inhuman blood that is affected. Hence why it didn't work on Magneto. I mean, her powers often work in ways that go against what she originally intended, so what she thought was a spell directed towards her Mutant side, was effectively impacting their inhuman genes/blood.

  11. #11
    "Comic Book Reviewer" InformationGeek's Avatar
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    It needlessly overcomplicated Tony's origin and history for no good reason. It's just kind of stupid and pointless.

  12. #12
    iMan 42s
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike_Murdock View Post
    Howard Stark had next to no role in Stan Lee's Iron Man. His first appearance was in 1970 with Iron Man #28 by Archie Goodwin. I'm seeing Maria Stark was Bill Mantlo in #104. Likewise, the whole thing with Tony getting his company from his father was a retcon as well (see here).

    Anyway, I can't comment on Gillen's run since I haven't read it. But I know someone who had a contentious childhood with their parents and was adopted and Bendis's Iron Man rang true to me here. That doesn't mean this retcon of the more widely-established retcon was a good idea, but I thought it built off that for a good story. I'd also say it doesn't matter who someone's biological parents are. The Starks are Tony's parents because they're the ones who raised him. I don't get why it's suddenly ruining what came before to say that half of Tony's DNA doesn't come from Maria Stark and the other half doesn't come from Howard Stark.
    The issue I took with it besides it re-contextualizing Tony's entire family tree was that besides it being unnecessary (the first question about change is "why should it be changed?"), it also didn't amount to anything. Amanda Armstrong is barely a character whose backstory while gives a superhero edge to Tony's origin, also makes him generic and raises several questions about his history considering how often he's fought Hydra and his biological father being a Hydra agent. What, nobody brought this up in the Hydra meetings? Nobody was the least bit curious where Amanda's baby went?

    But aside from that, it's a retread of Tony's existing parents. It's just that this time it's Rocker mom who has an incomplete backstory with Tony by way of adoption and Hydra dad working for Hydra instead of Shield. They're essentially alive again by way of Tony's rebooted parentage and if that was going to happen then why not just bring them back?
    -----------------------------------
    For anyone that needs to know why OMD is awful please search the internet for Linkara' s video's specifically his One more day review or his One more day Analysis.

  13. #13

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    i was bothered by Tony not being Howard and Maria's birth child, initially. but i would have gotten over it if Bendis hadn't introduced that has-been rocker lady as his mother. talk about "fixing" what wasn't broken. still think he should have been Nikola Tesla's kid (if he couldn't just be Howard and Maria's).
    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    I thought I couldn't love Steve Rogers any more than I already do, but here he is, eating pizza with a fork, just like I do (the only correct way to eat pizza

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Somecrazyaussie View Post
    I have an almost complete run of Iron-man and I have never really been keen on the adoption angle. As a story idea? Yes, it opened up new avenues for potential storylines. Some very interesting ones. It just hasn't been executed, or utilized, properly. Although Slott is doing some interesting things with it.

    However, I do think Howard should be reinstated as Tony's biological father. Just retcon that Arno's health slowly declined over a period of months. With Howard seeking any means to "cure" his heir. Obviously, due to his tampering during the pregnancy, Maria would be rendered sterile. So, faced with that fact, Howard has an affair with Amanda. Which results in Tony's conception. Howard comes up the adoption angle to hide his infidelity from Maria. Which would explain why Howard was so harsh towards Tony. Because it was a constant reminder of the affair.

    Howard was an alcoholic. I feel his alcoholism began taking hold with Arno's worsening condition. His inability to come to terms with his actions, plus the fact his one son was now crippled, would fester and ultimately be taken out on Tony. Behaviour that would have adverse effects on Tony himself. So him having an affair and a unintended pregnancy occur isn't out of the realm of possibility.

    It is also fitting that the son meant to replace the other is, ultimately, the one who finds the "cure" to save the other.
    they kind of set that up in the most recent issue. wasn't someone referred to as 'Mistress?'
    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    I thought I couldn't love Steve Rogers any more than I already do, but here he is, eating pizza with a fork, just like I do (the only correct way to eat pizza

  15. #15
    IRON MAN Tony Stark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike_Murdock View Post
    Howard Stark had next to no role in Stan Lee's Iron Man. His first appearance was in 1970 with Iron Man #28 by Archie Goodwin. I'm seeing Maria Stark was Bill Mantlo in #104. Likewise, the whole thing with Tony getting his company from his father was a retcon as well (see here).

    Anyway, I can't comment on Gillen's run since I haven't read it. But I know someone who had a contentious childhood with their parents and was adopted and Bendis's Iron Man rang true to me here. That doesn't mean this retcon of the more widely-established retcon was a good idea, but I thought it built off that for a good story. I'd also say it doesn't matter who someone's biological parents are. The Starks are Tony's parents because they're the ones who raised him. I don't get why it's suddenly ruining what came before to say that half of Tony's DNA doesn't come from Maria Stark and the other half doesn't come from Howard Stark.
    I'm not saying it's bad to be adopted. I would never say that and that's not what I said. How it it was done was so hamfisted. Also look how it makes Howard and Maria look by using a child as a decoy.
    Last edited by Tony Stark; 04-18-2019 at 07:54 AM.
    " I've learned that free will isn't a gift-it's muscle that needs to be exercised-and only when it's in peak condition-is a man truly awake" TONY STARK

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