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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think Howard Stark being his father was viewed as a major important part to the character. Maria was never explored much.
    If you say so. I have seen him go years at a stretch without even mentioning them in passing.


    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I can't say Tony has had much meaningful interaction with Amanda Armstrong ever since she was introduced, compared with Arno.
    Well, then, maybe they screwed up the execution. But the core idea of giving Stark family to interact with so he isn't a flat, dry character is a good one.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelC View Post
    Well, then, maybe they screwed up the execution. But the core idea of giving Stark family to interact with so he isn't a flat, dry character is a good one.
    Kind of reminds me of how they justified giving Oliver Queen an alive family on Arrow, which seemed to go over much better.

    But I dunno if he needs family to that extent. I think Tony's already established supporting cast fills that role well enough, though that's just me.

  3. #33
    Extraordinary Member Mike_Murdock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cmbmool View Post
    I didn't like how the Adoption story turned out as it made to me Tony Stark feel like he isn't a Stark by BLOOD. Especially when you consider all of his past adventures when he mentions his parents or his parents played a role in them like Arsenal.
    But why does it matter for those stories if he's related by blood? Short of issues of a genetic diseases, nothing changes. Howard and Maria Stark are his parents because they adopted and raised him. Nothing can take that away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think Howard Stark being his father was viewed as a major important part to the character. Maria was never explored much.
    Howard wasn't even introduced for ten years so he certainly wasn't always a major important part of the character.

    I can't say Tony has had much meaningful interaction with Amanda Armstrong ever since she was introduced, compared with Arno.
    I think the point is that there's still the ability to develop the character more.
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  4. #34

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    what is the summary of the adoption saga.

    How much is Arno a supporting character? What is his personality? is he set up to be a hero? villain? Just a supporter?

  5. #35
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    I started to really like Howard Stark after his appearances in Hickman's SHIELD and in Captain America: The First Avenger
    It gave him an interesting role in the early days of Marvel's pantheon of characters.

  6. #36
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    Howard and Maria were not important to the book before the MCU elevated Howard's profile, and they are still his parents regardless of the origin because Tony Stark's blood and DNA are not relevant to his childhood or my view of the character. The adoption story is a bit convoluted, but I like the additions of Amanda and Arno to the cast. The biggest failing of Brian when he was picking up the thread was that he didn't really use it as an opportunity to actually tell stories, just add a new character. He tried to do Hydra dad at the end, but that last story was a mess that someone should try cleaning up. But also, Slott has fixed everything anyway by compromising. We have the Howard and Maria stuff still a key part of the character, and we have the new family brought through the retcon, but neither of them are more his family than the others because Tony's new body shares blood with none of them. So forget your family trees, baby. Because Tony Stark is now, and forever will be, in every way, a self-made man.
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  7. #37
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    I'm not a fan of Tony's adoption nor what has come from it (characters and storylines) but to each their own.
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  8. #38
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike_Murdock View Post
    But why does it matter for those stories if he's related by blood? Short of issues of a genetic diseases, nothing changes. Howard and Maria Stark are his parents because they adopted and raised him. Nothing can take that away.
    I guess it kind of makes the adoption angle more inconsequential unless you keep bringing it up. People will probably just always assume they're his biological parents (because his actual comic biological parents aren't much more memorable).
    Howard wasn't even introduced for ten years so he certainly wasn't always a major important part of the character.
    True, but neither was Rhodey arguably and I'd say people view him as pretty essential to the Iron Man mythos now.
    I think the point is that there's still the ability to develop the character more.
    But why even bother? The character's been around since the end of International Iron Man and still hasn't really done much. She's just there, even though not many people actually seem interested in her as a character.

    She hasn't seemed to have had much of a significant impact on Tony to warrant her narrative purpose.
    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    Howard and Maria were not important to the book before the MCU elevated Howard's profile, and they are still his parents regardless of the origin because Tony Stark's blood and DNA are not relevant to his childhood or my view of the character. The adoption story is a bit convoluted, but I like the additions of Amanda and Arno to the cast. The biggest failing of Brian when he was picking up the thread was that he didn't really use it as an opportunity to actually tell stories, just add a new character. He tried to do Hydra dad at the end, but that last story was a mess that someone should try cleaning up. But also, Slott has fixed everything anyway by compromising. We have the Howard and Maria stuff still a key part of the character, and we have the new family brought through the retcon, but neither of them are more his family than the others because Tony's new body shares blood with none of them. So forget your family trees, baby. Because Tony Stark is now, and forever will be, in every way, a self-made man.
    What do you like about Amanda, if you don't mind me asking?

  9. #39
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    I like the current story, and certain scenes wouldn't work without her presence. For example, Stark's rejection of her has more emotional impact because of her sincere efforts to be a good mother to him in this story. She serves to advance Stark's character-development, and works in that sense.

  10. #40
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelC View Post
    I like the current story, and certain scenes wouldn't work without her presence. For example, Stark's rejection of her has more emotional impact because of her sincere efforts to be a good mother to him in this story. She serves to advance Stark's character-development, and works in that sense.
    I haven't gotten up to that arc yet but reading Slott's first Iron Man trade she feels as like as much of a non-entity as she did during Bendis' run.

  11. #41
    Spectacular Member Alphaxman's Avatar
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    I didn't read Gillen's run and quit more than halfway thru Bendis, so I'm not familiar with the adoption story line, but I remembered Bob Layton made it a point that Tony looked like Howard, down to the mustache, so I don't like it. Plus I can't stand the rocker mom/ex SHIELD agent woman. It really over-complicates Tony's history.

  12. #42
    Extraordinary Member Mike_Murdock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    But why even bother? The character's been around since the end of International Iron Man and still hasn't really done much. She's just there, even though not many people actually seem interested in her as a character.

    She hasn't seemed to have had much of a significant impact on Tony to warrant her narrative purpose.
    I think there's more narrative potential in having a character around who can be developed than in retconning her existence away by saying Tony was mistaken or something and he wasn't adopted. That's a true why bother. James Rhodes became a core part of Iron Man's story because he continued to get development. Especially in today's decompressed storytelling (especially Bendis's decompression) and stories that tend to have fewer subplots, it takes time to give a character enough meaningful moments. And, if a writer doesn't want to use the character, they can always leave her aside until the next writer who might want to use her.
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  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I haven't gotten up to that arc yet but reading Slott's first Iron Man trade she feels as like as much of a non-entity as she did during Bendis' run.
    There are also so remarks he makes in Slott's run that, if taken in a sort of sense, are an exact feeling of how a lot of readers feel about her as well.

    A non-entity.
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  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike_Murdock View Post
    I think there's more narrative potential in having a character around who can be developed than in retconning her existence away by saying Tony was mistaken or something and he wasn't adopted. That's a true why bother. James Rhodes became a core part of Iron Man's story because he continued to get development. Especially in today's decompressed storytelling (especially Bendis's decompression) and stories that tend to have fewer subplots, it takes time to give a character enough meaningful moments. And, if a writer doesn't want to use the character, they can always leave her aside until the next writer who might want to use her.
    I guess the question then is how long do we keep a character around just for their potential to become more meaningful and important rather then whether they actually fulfill that potential?

  15. #45
    Extraordinary Member Mike_Murdock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I guess the question then is how long do we keep a character around just for their potential to become more meaningful and important rather then whether they actually fulfill that potential?
    They don't have to "keep her around." It's a work of fiction. She's only around when she's physically being drawn.
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