Ultron vs Thanos (MCU)

[Cyke]

Thanos did NOT wipe out half of plants. I don't care what anyone said lol. He just didn't. We are treated to many scenes where huge clusters of trees or large grass fields have NO destroyed vegetation.

It just doesn't/didn't happen. Whoever said that in whatever interview r dumb. :P

Word of God, aka the Russos, said it.

But that's as far as I'm willing to entertain it. Even wiping out half the bacteria in the body of a surviving human would be disastrous for that person. So I accept it, but with rather large oceans of salt.

[The Arbiter]

Word of God, aka the Russos, said it.

But that's as far as I'm willing to entertain it. Even wiping out half the bacteria in the body of a surviving human would be disastrous for that person. So I accept it, but with rather large oceans of salt.

I... just... wha...

That isn't even JUST a thing they could have, but didn't, show on screen happening... It's also in direct opposition to Thanos' plans on creating resources abundance.

I won't accept this. *shakes fist angrily*

[Cyke]

I... just... wha...

That isn't even JUST a thing they could have, but didn't, show on screen happening... It's also in direct opposition to Thanos' plans on creating resources abundance.

I won't accept this. *shakes fist angrily*

NO DON'T SHAKE YOUR FIST

*moon gets pulled down by the Infinity Gauntlet*

[Guy1]

NO DON'T SHAKE YOUR FIST

*moon gets pulled down by the Infinity Gauntlet*

[Captain Morgan]

When Thanos made his move and "did it himself", he knew exactly how to get all the stones so he launched several invasions in rapid succession to acquire them before anybody could intervene. That wasn't the case when he was still using proxies. Sure, he could've done it himself from the beginning but it only would've made his job much harder in the long run.

He gave Loki a staff with the mind stone hidden inside of it so that he could make the people on Earth build the machine to bring the invasion force to Earth. That justifies what he did. Was it risky? Obviously. But since we're never given a reason to believe Loki knew what he possessed nor did Earth have anything to suggest they were capable of winning, on paper the risks were minimal.

OK, let's talk about opening up that portal. According to you, the reason he sent Loki in the first place was so people wouldn't know he was making moves. And he then sent his army in anyway. All opening the portal did was cut down on commute time. By all rights the galaxy should have been on high alert at that point. Why not just send someone in, have them get the Tesseract, and teleport it right to Thanos? He has stealth operatives that could have infiltrated with less muss than Loki caused.

Look, these are just plot holes. Most movies have them. It isn't exactly a mortal sin, I still enjoyed all of the Avenger's flicks. But they ARE plot holes.

[Arsenal]

OK, let's talk about opening up that portal. According to you, the reason he sent Loki in the first place was so people wouldn't know he was making moves. And he then sent his army in anyway. All opening the portal did was cut down on commute time. By all rights the galaxy should have been on high alert at that point. Why not just send someone in, have them get the Tesseract, and teleport it right to Thanos? He has stealth operatives that could have infiltrated with less muss than Loki caused.

Look, these are just plot holes. Most movies have them. It isn't exactly a mortal sin, I still enjoyed all of the Avenger's flicks. But they ARE plot holes.

… You do realize that the whole "killing half the population of every planet he conquers" is kind of an important part of his MO, right? That doesn't suddenly go away just because he got the stone. He didn't bother doing it anymore in IW because there was no need to when he was hours away from snapping his dreams into existence. If Thanos has been doing this for a long time (which by all accounts he has) than the rest of the universe wouldn't bat an eye at Thanos slaughtering some backwater 3rd world planet.

I'm not arguing that there aren't any plot holes, just that the moves Thanos makes leading up to doing it himself aren't nearly as idiotic as you are trying to make them seem. Even if the execution could've been better, the plans themselves are still sound.

[Captain Morgan]

… You do realize that the whole "killing half the population of every planet he conquers" is kind of an important part of his MO, right? That doesn't suddenly go away just because he got the stone. He didn't bother doing it anymore in IW because there was no need to when he was hours away from snapping his dreams into existence. If Thanos has been doing this for a long time (which by all accounts he has) than the rest of the universe wouldn't bat an eye at Thanos slaughtering some backwater 3rd world planet.

I'm not arguing that there aren't any plot holes, just that the moves Thanos makes leading up to doing it himself aren't nearly as idiotic as you are trying to make them seem. Even if the execution could've been better, the plans themselves are still sound.

if he can take over the Earth without anyone batting an eye, then he really shouldn't need an outside agent to retrieve the stones. Just take over the planet and he's got all the time in the world to track the stone down. You've yet to describe his goals and actions in a way that holds up under any major scrutiny.

If anything, his pan draws unnecessary attention to the space stone, since someone could conceivable wonder how he transported an army to that solar system without anyone seeing it in transit. Again, his goals aren't furthered in anyway by using 3rd parties in all this.

[Arsenal]

if he can take over the Earth without anyone batting an eye, then he really shouldn't need an outside agent to retrieve the stones. Just take over the planet and he's got all the time in the world to track the stone down. You've yet to describe his goals and actions in a way that holds up under any major scrutiny.

If anything, his pan draws unnecessary attention to the space stone, since someone could conceivable wonder how he transported an army to that solar system without anyone seeing it in transit. Again, his goals aren't furthered in anyway by using 3rd parties in all this.

The Galaxy is a pretty big place to both hunt down 5 infinity stones and systematically kill half the population of every single planet out there. Why wouldn’t he bring in third parties to help him speed up the process of achieving both objectives.

Thanos agreement with Ronan was to destroy Xander if he brought him the orb.
Thanos’s agreement with Loki was to help him take over the Earth in exchange for the tesseract.

Neither of them were aware of what they were supposed to bring Thanos. I’m not sure what Thanos does with his day but I’m sure he’s a busy guy and him nor his black order can realistically hunt down every lead personally. Worst case scenario the leads go nowhere and Thanos scratches some names off the list of planets he needs to decimate. Best case scenario he gains more infinity stones and he takes some names off the list. Seems pretty clear to me that his goals are being furthered by using 3rd parties.

[KJS]

All this stuff about detecting Thanos coming and taking over his tech is... well... simply put... not happening.

Thanos can open portals from the other side of the universe to exactly where he wants to go.

With that in mind, with the Power, Reality and Space Stones already in his possession, he could open a portal from billions of miles away and be just ten feet away from Ultron Prime when he steps through it.

Ultron Prime would NOT have been able to detect him coming from that far away. At that moment, Thanos steps out, walks over to him, and rips the Mind Stone out of his forehead - just like he did when Vision was in exactly the same body. Any resistance from drones would be easily fended off by reality warping, telekinesis and Power Stone blasts. Any attempt by Ultron to escape would be easily prevented with TK. And there wouldn't be time to launch any other kind of offence, as Thanos' attack would be a surprise one and he'd be only a few feet away from his target.

Thanos may also have the Black Order by his side when he steps through said portal, giving him the added bonus of Ebony Maw's TK, the Hulk(ish)-level Cull Obsidian and two further distractions to boot.

I really, really, really fail to see how that can be argued against. It involves very basic actions that Thanos has already proven capable of. While Ultron would have to overcome the power of several Infinity Stones to counter it.

To summarise: Thanos could have four Infinity Stones in no time at all, leaving Ultron with none. Because no amount of prep is preventing Thanos from arriving with three of them, or taking the other one from his forehead in (quite literally) exactly the same way he's already done on screen (even when the absent-from-this-scenario Scarlet Witch was trying to stop him).

[Twickster]

No bone in this, but a quick note that there is no "Ultron prime" to take out - only the Ultron occupying the biggest, most advanced body among the many he has as of the moment. I.e., like when he fought Stark in South Africa, Stark defeated that body, but Ultron was simultaneously in some other body thousands of miles away, as well as in the final fight in Sokovia, where the prime body was destroyed, and he was still alive until the last one was destroyed. Ultron is, by default, a diffuse consciousness that survives throughout the internet and every single body there is of him.

The only way to surgically "take out" Ultron is to somehow block him out of the internet, then methodically take out every single body he has as of that moment.

Now back to your regularly scheduled rumble.

[KJS]

No bone in this, but a quick note that there is no "Ultron prime" to take out - only the Ultron occupying the biggest, most advanced body among the many he has as of the moment. I.e., like when he fought Stark in South Africa, Stark defeated that body, but Ultron was simultaneously in some other body thousands of miles away, as well as in the final fight in Sokovia, where the prime body was destroyed, and he was still alive until the last one was destroyed. Ultron is, by default, a diffuse consciousness that survives throughout the internet and every single body there is of him.

The only way to surgically "take out" Ultron is to somehow block him out of the internet, then methodically take out every single body he has as of that moment.

Now back to your regularly scheduled rumble.

Oh I know, but I'm referring to the Vision's body, as that's what's referred to as being Ultron's main body in this scenario in the OP - and I don't want to call him "Vision" because that's not who he is.

And I know taking it out won't beat the drones, but the fact is it was what Ultron considered to be the "perfect" body - and we've seen what Thanos did to it. He tore the Mind Stone from its head, ripping the surrounding area of the head to bits. Vibranium or not, that happened.

And Ultron's drones have been shown to act scared when the superior model is beaten. Hulk smashed Ultron's main body in Avengers: Age of Ultron and they all ran off.

Essentially, if Thanos defeats "Ultron Prime" (Ultron in Vision's body), which he already has feats of doing EASILY, he won't get any more trouble from his flunkies.

[Mider2009]

Comic book Ultron would do better because i don’t see anything that showed me Thanos could destroy or change adimantium.

[wjowski]

Word of God, aka the Russos, said it.

But that's as far as I'm willing to entertain it. Even wiping out half the bacteria in the body of a surviving human would be disastrous for that person. So I accept it, but with rather large oceans of salt.

It sounds about as well thought out as the rest of Thanos' plan, to be honest.

[KJS]

My two cents on Thanos being not very intelligent are that it's a blatant example of PIS.

We've seen very little of him - and what he's done on screen hasn't always been a work of genius on his part - but there's absolute proof that he's been successful countless times before we met him.

In fact, when he sent Loki and the Chitauri to Earth - which does seem a bit absent minded on his part - the Avengers didn't actually exist. It looked like an incredibly easy task - and had the Avengers not come together, Earth would have lost the battle emphatically. Once Thanos found out about Loki's loss, he literally found it amusing.

When he sent Ronan to get the Orb, he didn't know Ronan would find out it was an Infinity Stone. It looked like a straightforward, fail-proof plan, but when Ronan inadvertently discovered the true nature of the artefact, things changed.

Those are the times Thanos looked silly re: his plans. And they had unforeseen circumstances derailing them.

Every other time Thanos has tried to achieve something, he's succeeded.

We know he successfully predicted Titan's fate, we know he successfully decimated Xandar, we know he successfully decimated the Asgardian refugee vessell (half of those on board escaped - and I believe we'll find out Thanos allowed that to be the case), we know he successfully decimated Zen-Whoberi (Gamora's home planet), we know he successfully decimated the home planets of Nebula, Ebony Maw, Cull Obsidian, Corvus Glaive and Proxima Midnight (he took one orphan from each of their planets), and we know that he successfully got ALL SIX of the Infinity Stones when got serious, successfully overcoming everything the heroes threw at him. Moreover, over the years, he's managed to recruit entire races (Chitauri, Outriders) to be under his command, and he has countless large vessels and war machines at his disposal - none of that will have come easy. It would take someone shrewd.

He's clearly far from stupid.

[The Drunkard Kid]

My interpretation of Thanos' willingness to risk the gems the hands of outside contractors is that his unyielding, religious faith in his own cause, means that he believes that his success is inevitable, so it doesn't matter if the small-minded goons he hired turns on him, those gems would be his eventually.