Storm versus Wonder Woman - but with soooooo many catches

[big_adventure]

The fight:

616 Storm v. Wonder Woman

And, of course, the caveats:

Stats equalized, no powers, no weapons of any kind

Diana is meant to be godly good, but she's mostly really good against people who don't bother to fight all that well. Ororo is meant to be really good, but her level fluctuates.

Who wins?

[The Arbiter]

I remember a scene from Post Crisis where Diana was pulling back about as hard as she could in a sparring match with Batman. On a skill vs skill level, she got hit first but then put him on his butt moments later.

He was multi tasking HARD as he was giving Oracle (or Alfred?) instructions on where to move money and things to research. Still, it was implied that they were worth each others time as proper skill based training partners.

[Sharpandpointies]

I don't put a lot of stock in any match where a superpowered person is holding back. Sorry to say. It's like the time that Canary actually 'beat' Diana in a sparring match. At least the writer had Canary think 'If she used the barest fraction of her actual strength and speed, I'd be dead'. Batman losing to Diana...how much was she actually holding back? Did it explicitly say she was using the exact same level of physicality as him?

Anyway....

A far better indication of her ability is 'Depowered Diana fights against a crowd of angry people armed with melee weapons (clubs, knives, maybe an axe, etc)', because at that point she doesn't HAVE any powers (though someone -- I think it was Dork -- pointed out that she actually deflects a bullet while 'depowered', which is...weird). Happens in one of her issues. She wins, but it's not an 'easy' fight for her (note: before people say I'm lowballing this, it's pretty much impossible for someone in the real world to pull this off). She beats most of them up, the rest run off. Basically, it was on the level of something I would expect from Huntress.

Batman, by contrast, when exhausted, tortured, dehydrated, badly wounded, and delirious from the aforementioned issues as well as a serious drugging, absolutely obliterates a crowd of enraged fanatics armed with clubs, axes and knives (and the occasional pistol) in a matter of seconds while Jason-Robin stands there looking on in utter awe. He ends the fight literally standing on a pile of bodies.

[The Arbiter]

Oh please. We all know Huntress would perform better than THAT. She is super STREET after all. :P

In regards to your questions, no I don't think it mentioned how much she was holding back or anything like that. If anything it implied Batman was the one who was distracted and multi tasking.

[Sharpandpointies]

Oh please. We all know Huntress would perform better than THAT. She is super STREET after all. :P

In regards to your questions, no I don't think it mentioned how much she was holding back or anything like that. If anything it implied Batman was the one who was distracted and multi tasking.

I recall the incident. :) I'm really unsure what it shows. Wonder Woman...holding back some unknown amount...beats Batman...when he's multi-tasking.

Honestly, if they wanted to use that to showcase her skill, they could have at least had her wear some kind of 'shuts off powers' device. :D

[The Arbiter]

I recall the incident. I'm really unsure what it shows. Wonder Woman...holding back some unknown amount...beats Batman...when he's multi-tasking.

Honestly, if they wanted to use that to showcase her skill, they could have at least had her wear some kind of 'shuts off powers' device.

Bleh. Then all the bat fans (of which I am one) would say things like "Bruce beats Doomsday cuz he has access to 'shuts of powers' devices". :P

[Powerboy]

I don't put a lot of stock in any match where a superpowered person is holding back. Sorry to say. It's like the time that Canary actually 'beat' Diana in a sparring match. At least the writer had Canary think 'If she used the barest fraction of her actual strength and speed, I'd be dead'. Batman losing to Diana...how much was she actually holding back? Did it explicitly say she was using the exact same level of physicality as him?

Anyway....

A far better indication of her ability is 'Depowered Diana fights against a crowd of angry people armed with melee weapons (clubs, knives, maybe an axe, etc)', because at that point she doesn't HAVE any powers (though someone -- I think it was Dork -- pointed out that she actually deflects a bullet while 'depowered', which is...weird). Happens in one of her issues. She wins, but it's not an 'easy' fight for her (note: before people say I'm lowballing this, it's pretty much impossible for someone in the real world to pull this off). She beats most of them up, the rest run off. Basically, it was on the level of something I would expect from Huntress.

Batman, by contrast, when exhausted, tortured, dehydrated, badly wounded, and delirious from the aforementioned issues as well as a serious drugging, absolutely obliterates a crowd of enraged fanatics armed with clubs, axes and knives (and the occasional pistol) in a matter of seconds while Jason-Robin stands there looking on in utter awe. He ends the fight literally standing on a pile of bodies.

Which honestly gets into another issue that makes this sort of fight impossible to judge. Let's say Batman vs. Wonder Woman without powers. What is meant by Wonder Woman without powers? Is that genuinely reduced to a real life human level? Is that reduced to a comic book peak human level? Without a reasonable number of examples of what a character can do "without powers" it just gets into a debate about what qualifies as "without powers".

So I gather Storm not using her weather powers more or less constitutes "without powers" although I suspect her actual feats are probably above reality but less than CBPH. At least we do have examples of Storm without using her powers. Not sure how much we have with WW.

[Powerboy]

Oh please. We all know Huntress would perform better than THAT. She is super STREET after all. :P

In regards to your questions, no I don't think it mentioned how much she was holding back or anything like that. If anything it implied Batman was the one who was distracted and multi tasking.

Yeah Huntress is "street" and "fights dirty" and also knows how to get angry and to say "Your mother".

[Pendaran]

Yeah Huntress is "street" and "fights dirty" and also knows how to get angry and to say "Your mother".

Goddamnit I just got out of the "your mother" loop in the last thread!

[hareluyafan1]

Batman, by contrast, when exhausted, tortured, dehydrated, badly wounded, and delirious from the aforementioned issues as well as a serious drugging, absolutely obliterates a crowd of enraged fanatics armed with clubs, axes and knives (and the occasional pistol) in a matter of seconds while Jason-Robin stands there looking on in utter awe. He ends the fight literally standing on a pile of bodies.

And people still try to claim that Batman is a "normal guy."

Sorry, rant mode off.

I'll go with WW. At the very least she should have more combat training and experience.

[Powerboy]

Goddamnit I just got out of the "your mother" loop in the last thread!

You shall not pass!

[Pendaran]

You shall not pass!

Your mother shall not pass!

[Shellhead]

In theory, we should have plenty of feats for powerless Wonder Woman, because she lost her powers for a year in her own comic, around 1970. Even an epic JLA/JSA crossover from that year depicted the powerless Wonder Woman, in JLA #100-102.

[big_adventure]

Which places her WELL behind Ororo in "time spent with no powers." What are her feats from that run?

[Beadle]

Your mother shall not pass!

Your face is your mother!

....

Or something.