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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    Ach, are they only limited to making punchery? I thought it was just speed equalized. She should be able to throw blasts around.
    I guess. It's just that once Shulkie hits orbit, its basically Thor vs Superman and Carol trying to zap Supes without hitting Thor. Seems like a waste of the numbers advantage and I'm not sure what Binary adds really. I suppose she's tougher and more potent than War Machine and IM individually

  2. #17
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dork Knight View Post
    I guess. It's just that once Shulkie hits orbit, its basically Thor vs Superman and Carol trying to zap Supes without hitting Thor. Seems like a waste of the numbers advantage and I'm not sure what Binary adds really. I suppose she's tougher and more potent than War Machine and IM individually
    Why would she be bothering to not blast Thor? Once she's Binary she should just AoE everything over and over. Take advantage of Superman being busy with Thor to zap everything while they're fighting again and again. She's good enough at energy projection that going full tilt should stagger them both for a moment, and then just keep doing that. For however long Thor can survive that, he can get in Superman's way until he himself drops, at which point it's a been zapped up a whole lot already Superman vs Binary at equal speeds.

    Again, so long as one person on one side is left standing, that is a win ;p And a technical win, like being technically correct, is the best kind of win ;p

  3. #18
    Prince of Duckness Beadle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dork Knight View Post
    Based on ?
    Heh. On reflection, it’s probably based on her OG Binary days, and even then probably only presentationally rather than legit feats, which is no basis for Rumbles, so... umm... carry on.

    ~_~

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    Why would she be bothering to not blast Thor? Once she's Binary she should just AoE everything over and over. Take advantage of Superman being busy with Thor to zap everything while they're fighting again and again. She's good enough at energy projection that going full tilt should stagger them both for a moment, and then just keep doing that. For however long Thor can survive that, he can get in Superman's way until he himself drops, at which point it's a been zapped up a whole lot already Superman vs Binary at equal speeds.

    Again, so long as one person on one side is left standing, that is a win ;p And a technical win, like being technically correct, is the best kind of win ;p
    Or Supes could take a moment out of pounding Thor to freeze her, then chuck Thor through her. Or briefly stun Thor with a pressure point and/or burn out his eyes or something then go over and swat her aside

    Or he may just be too much for her even after getting battered in the fight v Thor

  5. #20
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dork Knight View Post
    Or Supes could take a moment out of pounding Thor to freeze her, then chuck Thor through her. Or briefly stun Thor with a pressure point and/or burn out his eyes or something then go over and swat her aside

    Or he may just be too much for her even after getting battered in the fight v Thor
    While current Thor is indeed trash, even Trash Thor's eyes getting one move burned out by heat vision is a bit much, and Binary should be able to protect herself against freeze breath with white hole vortexes. Thor is just enough of a step above absolute utter garbage that I don't feel like Superman could completely ignore him to go after Binary, is what it comes to for me.

    Basically Superman's problem here is this: In a speed equalized fight, he needs to get rid of She Hulk as soon as possible, current "Savage Jen" or whatever as far as her power up is the biggest threat to him in the fight as far as strength and durability. While he certainly can space toss her off the "she weighs basically person weight+" principle, he's going to have to make this go while Thor is also getting all up in his business, and being no faster than either of them, it's thorny. It should happen, but it will be thorny. He's going to actually have to put in time and effort.

    It shouldn't take really long at all for the armor twins to thus get Carol up to Binary (really just a moment of "put totality of armor's power into Carol"). At which point zappo, over and over.

    I could certainly still see Superman managing to get over to her to punch her down sometimes I'd suppose? But enough times he's going to go down to being battered while erstwhile occupied and then battered some more. If there's one thing they let Binary be good at, it's energy related crap.

  6. #21
    She/Her Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    While current Thor is indeed trash, even Trash Thor's eyes getting one move burned out by heat vision is a bit much, and Binary should be able to protect herself against freeze breath with white hole vortexes. Thor is just enough of a step above absolute utter garbage that I don't feel like Superman could completely ignore him to go after Binary, is what it comes to for me.

    Basically Superman's problem here is this: In a speed equalized fight, he needs to get rid of She Hulk as soon as possible, current "Savage Jen" or whatever as far as her power up is the biggest threat to him in the fight as far as strength and durability. While he certainly can space toss her off the "she weighs basically person weight+" principle, he's going to have to make this go while Thor is also getting all up in his business, and being no faster than either of them, it's thorny. It should happen, but it will be thorny. He's going to actually have to put in time and effort.

    It shouldn't take really long at all for the armor twins to thus get Carol up to Binary (really just a moment of "put totality of armor's power into Carol"). At which point zappo, over and over.

    I could certainly still see Superman managing to get over to her to punch her down sometimes I'd suppose? But enough times he's going to go down to being battered while erstwhile occupied and then battered some more. If there's one thing they let Binary be good at, it's energy related crap.
    I mean, at least they didn't "Full Odin" current Thor, who was all of murdered by ... nameless Dark Elf Assassins. Yea that's right. Odin got his ass got, by nameless assassins. Oh yea ! Almost forgot !

    Loki got eaten by his biological father.

    I just love Jason Aaron.

    Don't forget the new Valkyrie (It's Jane Foster !) with the madeup weapon Undajar "The All-Weapon".
    Yeah, but if you... man, we're getting into weird analogy territory, like if you disintegrated Superman's arms he wouldn't be able to go "fool! Little did you know that my arms and I are one and can be remade from me!" and will his arms back into being from pure nothingness. - Pendaran

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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh View Post
    I mean, at least they didn't "Full Odin" current Thor, who was all of murdered by ... nameless Dark Elf Assassins. Yea that's right. Odin got his ass got, by nameless assassins. Oh yea ! Almost forgot !

    Loki got eaten by his biological father.

    I just love Jason Aaron.

    Don't forget the new Valkyrie (It's Jane Foster !) with the madeup weapon Undajar "The All-Weapon".
    That gives her wings like she was drinking Red Bull.

    Jason really wants to get Jane over as the strongest ever, doesn't he?
    Critics who treat adult as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence.
    - C.S. Lewis

  8. #23
    Astonishing Member Slade1's Avatar
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    Can't Superman just absorb the blasts? He's absorbed different types of energy before.

  9. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slade1 View Post
    Can't Superman just absorb the blasts? He's absorbed different types of energy before.
    Like "anti sunlight" and whatever he did at the earth's core that one time? I don't get the impression it's a thing he often does with any reliability. There have been a gazillion energy blasts he HASNT absorbed.
    "At the end of the day, Arby is a pretty prolific poster proposing a plurality of proper posts for us."
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  10. #25
    Astonishing Member Captain Morgan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    Like "anti sunlight" and whatever he did at the earth's core that one time? I don't get the impression it's a thing he often does with any reliability. There have been a gazillion energy blasts he HASNT absorbed.
    Yeah. And most of the instances of him absorbing other types of energy essentially involve him plugging into a battery of it, not being shot in the face with it. (anti sunlight, molten earth core.)

    Heck, even yellow sunlight can hurt him if projected hard enough. See him vs exploding suns from Braniac. Sun Eater explosions have knocked him out too.(And,not referencing that recent red Sun example with that.)

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    While current Thor is indeed trash, even Trash Thor's eyes getting one move burned out by heat vision is a bit much, and Binary should be able to protect herself against freeze breath with white hole vortexes. Thor is just enough of a step above absolute utter garbage that I don't feel like Superman could completely ignore him to go after Binary, is what it comes to for me.

    Basically Superman's problem here is this: In a speed equalized fight, he needs to get rid of She Hulk as soon as possible, current "Savage Jen" or whatever as far as her power up is the biggest threat to him in the fight as far as strength and durability. While he certainly can space toss her off the "she weighs basically person weight+" principle, he's going to have to make this go while Thor is also getting all up in his business, and being no faster than either of them, it's thorny. It should happen, but it will be thorny. He's going to actually have to put in time and effort.

    It shouldn't take really long at all for the armor twins to thus get Carol up to Binary (really just a moment of "put totality of armor's power into Carol"). At which point zappo, over and over.

    I could certainly still see Superman managing to get over to her to punch her down sometimes I'd suppose? But enough times he's going to go down to being battered while erstwhile occupied and then battered some more. If there's one thing they let Binary be good at, it's energy related crap.
    So can Binary tank hits from Superman? Serious question. She was pretty much one shotted by Gladiator who waded through her blasts

    Also how good is she at dealing with say Thor's helmet thrown at her face by Superman. Or one of the two now useless hunks of metal lying about.

    Thor doesn't need to be permanently blinded not does it have to be one single zap but Superman has a number of options without Thor having Mjolnir. How does Thor fare against sonics? I don't think vibration is an option speed equalized but both freeze breath and pressure points have momentarily stopped Thor class opponents in the past. And then there is the fact that Superman's going to be boiling him with HV throughout the fight just by keeping his eyes open while Thor's range options without Mjolnir are far more limited and slower to summon. A blinded burning, deaf,partially paralyzed Thor isn't going to stop Supes from going over and dealing with Binary. Or he could just pull the classic Gladiator tactic of kicking away the hammer first and sending Thor flying the other way

    For Jen to be a factor, Superman needs to actually be on the ground first. He could just stay up wrestling with Thor or frying Jen with HV from range
    Last edited by The Dork Knight; 04-21-2019 at 07:09 PM.

  12. #27
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    So can Binary tank hits from Superman?
    I wouldn't really think so, no. Maybe a few. It's just that he'll be pretty battered by the time he's otherwise taking her on and she can keep firing away.

    She has this one really good durability showing but there are asterisks on it for it involving energy and I mean, absorbing energy, that's what Carol/Binary does after all.


    Also how good is she at dealing with say Thor's helmet thrown at her face by Superman. Or one of the two now useless hunks of metal lying about.
    Eh, he should have to close to deal with her, stuff's going inside a vortex she can open up in front of her otherwise, and energy projection is otherwise a bad idea.

    For Jen to be a factor, Superman needs to actually be on the ground first. He could just stay up wrestling with Thor or frying Jen with HV from range
    If he stays up wrestling with Thor, that gives him an opening for Jen to jump up and grab onto him, and now he's wrestling with them both as far as openings to do things. Superman needs to take out She Hulk first as far as any strategy he can enact, and while certainly not impossible, it makes things problematic for that everyone is at the same speed. I mean super duper gosh he's so awesome Immortal Hulk* had to mind games Jen to get an opening on her to punch her away and that less KO'd her so much as massively relocated her.

    This also kind of addresses...

    How does Thor fare against sonics? I don't think vibration is an option speed equalized but both freeze breath and pressure points have momentarily stopped Thor class opponents in the past. And then there is the fact that Superman's going to be boiling him with HV throughout the fight just by keeping his eyes open while Thor's range options without Mjolnir are far more limited and slower to summon. A blinded burning, dead, partially paralyzed Thor isn't going to stop Supes from going over and dealing with Binary.
    Thor doesn't have some specific vulnerability to sonics that I am aware of, but basically the problem with any of this is that Superman has to space toss Jen as soon into the fight as he can. That's going to impair how much he can initially focus on Thor, and let Thor gets some shots in, for what they're worth. And while he's space tossed Jen and now can focus on Thor, (which is presuming that all resolves quickly enough, it might not), Binary is going to be able pretty quickly into things start just zapping everything. It's a fair bit to deal with at speeds equalized.

    Or he could just pull the classic Gladiator tactic of kicking away the hammer first and sending Thor flying the other way
    Gladiator made that go by hitting Thor so hard he dropped the hammer. I grant this is trash Thor, but I don't 100% see post crisis Supes doing something similar.


    * Yes, slight sarcasm.
    Last edited by Pendaran; 04-21-2019 at 07:53 PM.

  13. #28
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    Superman's wrestling match with Thor and Shulk is lopsided in his favour because of couple of crucial factors. The first one mainly being he can fly, the others cant or rely on a thing to do so. What this implies is when Superman sends Shulk into orbit with the one hit as he has done with people before, she can't come back. Or maybe he sends Thor flying the equivalent distance to make it 1v1 with Shulk for that one hit he needs. Superman literally sends them out of the game with one punch as far as buying time goes. And sure they pull the same on him, being class 100s, the difference being he can fly back under his own power and Shulk can't. If he can knock out the hammer or even dislodge Shulk for a moment she's literally free falling. The lack of flight is such a big disadvantage for Shulk she'll be a non factor. Likewise for Superman to buy time he only needs one good swing at either to send them faaar away. Also by the same corollary they only need one swing to displace him from Binary's range

    The other factor is HV. Even a single burst is at least equal to a class 100 punch. It has ravaged the surface of a planet when used by a dozen daxamites, powered planet moving engines under a red sun, used to create a new sun along with multiple GLs,- it's clearly something in the class 100 range without even going to performances against other people. And it only needs Kal to keep his eyes open to ensure basically a barrage of class 100 punches. Now add that to whatever Binary is dishing out AND Supes' actual punches, I'm pretty sure the other two get at least staggered before he does and then it's one hit to remove She Hulk.

    And then one hit to send Thor afar and close in on Binary and send HER afar and so on. And best part being Superman's range with HV is vastly greater than Binary's so he can hold off/slow down Thor for a bit even with that while battering Carol to submission

    You don't need to be Gladiator to make Thor drop the hammer. Hulk has done it, multiple times. Nobody thinks of kicking it away though

  14. #29
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    Superman's wrestling match with Thor and Shulk is lopsided in his favour because of couple of crucial factors. The first one mainly being he can fly, the others cant or rely on a thing to do so. What this implies is when Superman sends Shulk into orbit with the one hit as he has done with people before, she can't come back.
    The problem is that the fight is at equal speeds. He can't just clearly beeline to her, and punch, no problems. There's as much odds of him getting grabbed or punched when he closes to do so as him punching. There's also the problem of that when he moves in to do so, Thor can move in at him. I'm not saying he can't get an opening to eventually get rid of her, but I'm thin on him getting to do that pretty much at fight start without issue.

    Or maybe he sends Thor flying the equivalent distance to make it 1v1 with Shulk for that one hit he needs.
    Again though, the fight's at equal speeds, there's as much odds of him getting hit as there is of him getting in a hit.

    Superman literally sends them out of the game with one punch as far as buying time goes.
    Or he doesn't. If he ends up in wrestling/melee with both of them at once, the clear space he has to uppercut one of them into orbit drops.

    The other factor is HV. Even a single burst is at least equal to a class 100 punch. It has ravaged the surface of a planet when used by a dozen daxamites, powered planet moving engines under a red sun, used to create a new sun along with multiple GLs,- it's clearly something in the class 100 range without even going to performances against other people. And it only needs Kal to keep his eyes open to ensure basically a barrage of class 100 punches. Now add that to whatever Binary is dishing out AND Supes' actual punches, I'm pretty sure the other two get at least staggered before he does and then it's one hit to remove She Hulk.
    You're talking I think like him doing Cyclops style wide angle shots with this I think as far as talking about hitting them both with HV at once, which, sure, I've seen the guy do wider beam things sometimes. But in that situation he's both getting blasted in series by Binary while he does that, and if he's angling over a larger area, Binary can catch some of that, which is a bad idea as far as charging her up.

    And then one hit to send Thor afar and close in on Binary and send HER afar and so on. And best part being Superman's range with HV is vastly greater than Binary's so he can hold off/slow down Thor for a bit even with that while battering Carol to submission
    edit: ech, New York city? I completely missed that, thought it was an arena fight. That does ameliorate some of his problems, but it also adds an extra problem then for him, I'lll make a new post..

    There are certainly circumstances where Superman can win, but there are just as many where he's going to lose, and one of them involves Binary making with the zapping a lot.

    You don't need to be Gladiator to make Thor drop the hammer. Hulk has done it, multiple times. Nobody thinks of kicking it away though
    Well you have to kick it before it actually hits the ground and all, I'm willing to forgive people for not always thinking of giving that a whirl.
    Last edited by Pendaran; 04-22-2019 at 06:41 PM.

  15. #30
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    So this isn't an arena fight then. Soooo... actually the Binary thing is less the way to go. The way to go is more to swarm the guy with Thor as point and Carol for absorbing energy. Whenever he BFRs She Hulk, someone can fly and get her back of the Iron Men.

    Ultimately Thor can sacrifice BFR them both to some other dimension he can't come back from, technical win.

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