PREVIEW: New Avengers, #22

[fod_xp]

Great point. He wanted to join the band!

This band's gigs suck, though. Bet Banner wishes he had stayed in the car.

[smoothrunes]

This band's gigs suck, though. Bet Banner wishes he had stayed in the car.

"Hey, guys. I know a bunch of you agreed to shoot me/my alter ego into space and didn't care about the consequences of what could have happened. I'm sure you're all gonna take me with you on an amazing journey. How could this not work out?"

[Tony Stark]

This band's gigs suck, though. Bet Banner wishes he had stayed in the car.

I love the Illuminati. I think it's an awesome concept and I think New Avengers is the best book going now.

[Clea]

It's not that is only fit for kid comics, it's that can't always be that way. It's not realistic at all, and maybe after fifty years it's time for some change. Human beings that for more than ten years fight any possibile threat to Heart, from super villains to aliens civilizations of warrior to world eater to space gods and always win, without compromises, their conscience untouched, without making mistakes are not human beings, are Gods and as Gods they are difficult to relate to.
I mean, regular soldiers make things they will regret forever and return totally transformed after six months in Afghanistan. And sometimes there are Vitenams too. Now this guys fight wars that encompass the whole universe, fight against mad gods, with civilization far superior than them, constantly, and they are always the same person? No changes? No regrets? No mistakes? No character evolution? This is what is unrealistic. I am not saying that more heroic stories like the one you like shouldn't exist, I like to watch Lo Hobbit or read Spider–Man. But…Marvel makes probably 50 books for month, ad this is the only one that is using this approach. If you (or other people) believe 1 in 50 it's too much, maybe you are the intolerants.



Yes, and it's not always possibile. In real life, at least, you face problems you can't solve no matter how smart you are. Especially when you are in panic. Think you know that any minute now everything that exists is going to die, your loved ones, your friends, your city, your nation, your world, your solar system, your galaxy, your universe, everything. How can you not panic? Think that in no more than two months (in Marvel timeline no more than two month or a little more could have passed) you watched many universes die, unable to find a solution or even the cause, you've been attacked by aliens, you fought other aliens in space, you discovered you could face enemies too strong for you (Black Priests, Mapmakers) and be unable to save your universe even if you are inclined to destroy another Heart. What the normal human reaction would be? To panic and try everything that is possible to survive. These characters are not showed as monsters but as simple human beings, instead than the usual naive idealization of the unrealistic perfect beings. In the meantime you can read Avengers, Mighty Avengers, Avengers World, Avengers Assemble and get all the classic heroism you like.

I don't mind when people disagree with my opinion, but please do not call me intolerant because of my opinion of a comic book story.

[Tony Stark]

I don't mind when people disagree with my opinion, but please do not call me intolerant because of my opinion of a comic book story.

Just wanted to say LOVE your Signature.

[hawkeyefan]

It's only Counter-Earth's creation and the fact that it stays stable in its orbit that are problematic. The planet itself is boringly plausible, since it's just like Earth, which we know is entirely realistic because, well, Earth is real.... ;-)

And you still fail to give an actual reason or an argument for why the massive power supply from the Dyson sphere can't be used for anything actually useful. Until I see a valid reason why not, I maintain that Tony does indeed have hundreds of thousands if not millions of times the power output of all of human civilization at his fingertips to use for any cool gizmo he and the others can come up with, from teleportation to time displacement to shrinking whole populations into the Microverse...

I'm no astro-physicist, but I'm reasonably sure that the presence of another Earth sized planet in our solar system would have enormous implications. But I just go with it because that's what the story says.

Same thing with the Dyson Sphere. I can't tell you why it can't be used for anything other than as a weapon because we haven't been told why. All we've been told is that it's use is limited to that of a weapon. I can understand you wanting to know why, but to maintain that it can be used in other ways is to go against the facts as they've been presented.

So despite your knowledge of the situation, changing the facts to fit your argument doesn't leave you in a strong position.

I love the Illuminati. I think it's an awesome concept and I think New Avengers is the best book going now.

I agree. Marvel's best book, with the possible exception of Hawkeye.

[Victor Freeman]

Dr Doom wouldn't have bailed at the last-minute the way T'challa did, the same way Cap wouldn't have been in a position to blow up a planet in the first place.

He's not Doom. But if he pulled the trigger, that line would have been passed. Again, he doesn't want to become that way. He's neither, but lets stop acting like you can't use a character as a story device.

T'challa is so far of each of those characters you mentioned at the moment, I don't see how you can try and make this comparison tbh.
Also, no one is actually making the argument that Namor did an heroic thing I think, quite the countrary.
"He did what was necessary, but still, what a waste/shame/tragedy" is what everyone's saying, not "He did something heroic".
And, given the scale of the death toll (a number in the billions), how anyone would consider this as an heroic deed ?

That's your opinion. I happen to disagree. I said the he's between the two.

I don't agree with you on another point: responsibility.
Fact is, there is a collective responsibility to be held and acknowledged, not a "some are less guilty than others (= Namor) because they didn't press the actual button" disturbing position.

.

You can disagree all you like. Doesn't change the fact that one character made the decision to actually do it. While everyone has some responsiblity, the person who actually did it bares it the most--for actually doing it.

[jackolover]

From the looks of the other page, it would seem Black Bolt would have also backed out of doing what had to be done, given the way he's glaring. Namor, the Sub-Mariner, the man who just saved two universes from immediate destruction, one permanently.

Namor saved an unimaginable number of lives across countless worlds by doing what needed to be done. He took no pleasure or satisfaction in it, and if merely his own death would have sufficed, he would have sacrificed it in a shot but the choice was not so cheap and easy. By daring to do the unthinkable, Namor just carried out the most heroic act of anyone in the Marvel universe to date.

I like that the Beast and Black Bolt are glaring after GS Earth is destroyed. It's not a typical event, so they should feel distraught.

[brainwasher]

I don't mind when people disagree with my opinion, but please do not call me intolerant because of my opinion of a comic book story.

It was not my intention to label you specifically as intolerant, english is not my native english and I've mistakenly used "you" in the way it can be used in my language, italian, impersonally, referring to a category not a person. I've quoted your post but I was making a more general point about an attitude I don't understand, that is, considering more realistic stories where characters are weak, broken and make bad decisions as "not fit" for super heroes characters and reducing that stories to "following a trend" like everything that matters in these stories is that heroes act like villains and people die and who likes them is an idiot that want "blood". All that while usually 99% of the books maintain the more heroic approach to storytelling.

That said, I realize you could still feel offended and I am sorry for that, I don't think at al you are an intolerant person, especially because you don't seem to have the "this stories suck" approach but the saner "I don't like it so I will stop read it" one. In part I've used your post because I thought (egoistically) that you seemed reasonable so I could avoid ending in some endless discussion or worst. I didn't realize what I was saying could be intended as a personal attack (now I see it could have) or if was using an aggressive tone/language (can't control that because I lack the necessary familiarity with your language). Sorry again if I've offended you, it really wasn't my intention at all and I don't know how to explain it better than this.

[divad4686]

I have usually been more on BP side on the last events between him and Namor. But he is wrong right now, Captain told them about this, about how they where going to build this weapon, and they wiped his mind for it, because he was not pragmatic enough, now they are going to blame Namor for pulling the trigger? Maybe namor, tony and the others should ask Strange to wipe their mind since they are not being pragmatic enough for this task, if they don't, they are hypocrites.
And there are not representation of good and evil or high and low moral in this team, they are all in a very grey area.

The only high moral guy right now is Captain america, who just got his memories back and is coming with thor, hyperion and the rest. Do you guys think he is going to forgive Tony and BP because they didn't pull the trigger? No way. And the best part about this story is that Captain may actually be wrong in all this.

[hawkeyefan]

I have usually been more on BP side on the last events between him and Namor. But he is wrong right now, Captain told them about this, about how they where going to build this weapon, and they wiped his mind for it, because he was not pragmatic enough, now they are going to blame Namor for pulling the trigger? Maybe namor, tony and the others should ask Strange to wipe their mind since they are not being pragmatic enough for this task, if they don't, they are hypocrites.
And there are not representation of good and evil or high and low moral in this team, they are all in a very grey area.

The only high moral guy right now is Captain america, who just got his memories back and is coming with thor, hyperion and the rest. Do you guys think he is going to forgive Tony and BP because they didn't pull the trigger? No way. And the best part about this story is that Captain may actually be wrong in all this.

Well from what we saw in Avengers, it seems almost like Cap is more obsessed with stopping the Illuminati than in stopping the Incursions. So while he may have had a moral point at the start, he may no longer have it. We'll see.

[Andy]

Namor is going down a dark dark path, man. It'll be interesting to see what ends up happening with him.

[Andy]

I agree that all of the Illuminati has blood on their hands, but in the end, when you this kind of action is made, you should feel the way they feel right now.

Namor is unsympathetic and the fact that he is trying to wear his actions as some badge of strength is a massive indictment on him. I suspect, thought, that that won't last forever. It'll break him.


Lol at anyone calling it "disappointing" or "hypocritical." You'd have to be a pretty sick person to not feel the way they do in that moment. They gave into fear at the beginning and billions have now paid the price. Agony doesn't even begin to describe the emotion they would realistically be feeling.

[runguy]

Namor is going down a dark dark path, man. It'll be interesting to see what ends up happening with him.

Makes you wonder if BP will "end" Namor now that Namor has basically done what the others couldn't

[hawkeyefan]

Makes you wonder if BP will "end" Namor now that Namor has basically done what the others couldn't

I wouldn't be surprised if Namor asks him to do it.