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  1. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by K7P5V View Post
    Not unless you're a Marvel Comics Historian. Both Hawkeye & Daredevil have a thing for Natasha, and even fought over her once. And when the Falcon became a member of the Avengers, Hawkeye got the boot because he put the team over the membership-limit at the time.
    Yeah, I know. And Clint and Cage served together in the New Avengers during Bendis' run. But they are still odd choices to show up in a HAWKEYE solo miniseries which isn't about his history with any of them. Cage makes the most sense to me, since Clint was Ronin when he and Luke served together. DD has a loose Ronin link through Echo--since both DD and Clint are ex-lovers of hers, and DD was the one who recommended Echo for the original Ronin job. But I really don't see where Falcon comes into it. But I'm sure it'll make sense once we see the in-story context.

    Quote Originally Posted by OOTCS View Post
    I wondered that at first too, but I think Clint was the only one who went public as Ronin? Maya operated in complete secrecy (and was only ever Ronin while she was in Japan), Alexei's plan never came to fruition, and Blade only used that identity for a short amount of time and never unmasked as far as I remember. Whereas Clint took off the mask on camera and said, "Hey, I'm Clint Barton aka Hawkeye aka Ronin." So it's possible that the American public doesn't know that anyone else has ever used this identity.
    Good point. I'd forgotten about Clint going public as Ronin when he'd called out Norman Osborn. So that at least would explain why the general public would associate Clint with the role.

    His fellow Avengers at least should know better though, since two of the other three Ronins were also Avengers members.

  2. #257
    I hate Christmas Matternativ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K7P5V View Post
    Not unless you're a Marvel Comics Historian. Both Hawkeye & Daredevil have a thing for Natasha, and even fought over her once. And when the Falcon became a member of the Avengers, Hawkeye got the boot because he put the team over the membership-limit at the time.
    Honestly from that point of view we could include almost everybody who's ever appeared in Comics. Clint is a team-slut.
    "̶l̶̶e̶̶t̶'̶s̶̶ ̶̶h̶̶a̶̶v̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶s̶̶o̶̶m̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶f̶̶u̶̶n̶̶,̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶h̶̶i̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶b̶̶e̶̶a̶̶t̶̶ ̶̶i̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶s̶̶i̶̶c̶̶k̶̶.̶̶ ̶̶i̶̶ ̶̶w̶̶a̶̶n̶̶n̶̶a̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶a̶̶k̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶a̶̶ ̶̶r̶̶i̶̶d̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶o̶̶n̶̶ ̶̶y̶̶o̶̶u̶̶r̶̶ ̶̶d̶̶i̶̶s̶̶c̶̶o̶̶s̶̶t̶̶i̶̶c̶̶k̶̶"
    "Let's have some fun, this riff is sick. I wanna mosh around in the Circle Pit!"

    Matt's Stuff [Blog]: Fire Emblem Three Houses Campaigns & Characters - R A N K E D

  3. #258
    Condescending Member manymade1's Avatar
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    So I've been binging Fractions run over the past coupe of days. It's a masterpiece, but I'm wondering why Aja was absent in so many issues? It seems like his art style kind of defined the series, and it's not like the series went on for that long anyway. I'm surprised there are so many different artists involved.

    Though I've liked most of the artists work (Just not as much as Aja's), I didn't really like the artstyle of the Hurricane Sandy issue or the one that detailed The Clown's life.

  4. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by manymade1 View Post
    So I've been binging Fractions run over the past coupe of days. It's a masterpiece, but I'm wondering why Aja was absent in so many issues? It seems like his art style kind of defined the series, and it's not like the series went on for that long anyway. I'm surprised there are so many different artists involved.

    Though I've liked most of the artists work (Just not as much as Aja's), I didn't really like the artstyle of the Hurricane Sandy issue or the one that detailed The Clown's life.
    There are a number of factors involved in answering that question. One thing is that Aja wasn't necessarily the fastest artist (which is part of why there were sometimes huge gaps between issues), so sometimes a fill-in was required. Another thing was a creative choice, once Clint and Kate split off into separate storylines to give Kate's storyline her own artist.

    The Hurricane Sandy issue was not originally planned; it was thrown together in a hurry as a response to the disaster - which is why Aja was not involved in that one, and why perhaps it might have seemed a tad rushed in some ways.

  5. #260
    I hate Christmas Matternativ's Avatar
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    Freefall #1 Variant by Dave Cockrum
    Last edited by Matternativ; 11-25-2019 at 11:25 AM.
    "̶l̶̶e̶̶t̶'̶s̶̶ ̶̶h̶̶a̶̶v̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶s̶̶o̶̶m̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶f̶̶u̶̶n̶̶,̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶h̶̶i̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶b̶̶e̶̶a̶̶t̶̶ ̶̶i̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶s̶̶i̶̶c̶̶k̶̶.̶̶ ̶̶i̶̶ ̶̶w̶̶a̶̶n̶̶n̶̶a̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶a̶̶k̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶a̶̶ ̶̶r̶̶i̶̶d̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶o̶̶n̶̶ ̶̶y̶̶o̶̶u̶̶r̶̶ ̶̶d̶̶i̶̶s̶̶c̶̶o̶̶s̶̶t̶̶i̶̶c̶̶k̶̶"
    "Let's have some fun, this riff is sick. I wanna mosh around in the Circle Pit!"

    Matt's Stuff [Blog]: Fire Emblem Three Houses Campaigns & Characters - R A N K E D

  6. #261
    Condescending Member manymade1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dermie View Post
    There are a number of factors involved in answering that question. One thing is that Aja wasn't necessarily the fastest artist (which is part of why there were sometimes huge gaps between issues), so sometimes a fill-in was required. Another thing was a creative choice, once Clint and Kate split off into separate storylines to give Kate's storyline her own artist.

    The Hurricane Sandy issue was not originally planned; it was thrown together in a hurry as a response to the disaster - which is why Aja was not involved in that one, and why perhaps it might have seemed a tad rushed in some ways.
    That's interesting. The issues do tend to have a lot of panels, so I guess I can understand why it might have taken a while.

    As far as the Kate issues, I actually really enjoy the art in those.

    Edit: I just finished the run and wow, I'm honestly at a loss for words. That final panel almost drove me to tears; I can only imagine how it must've been to people that were keeping up with the run from the beginning.

    I like that the run was pretty short. I feel like the slice of life angle would've really run it's course had Fraction and Aja decided to pad it out for a year or two longer.

    It was so awesome seeing Clint and Kate grow. Kate, especially, had a really nice growth considering the time frame was pretty short. I felt like she learned something at the end of all her solo adventures. As far as Clint goes, it sucks, because I feel like we'll never get a writer that treats him as well as Fraction and Aja. I mean sure, he'll get plenty of spotlight, but when else will someone take the time to treat him like an actual human being?

    Stand out stories: Cherry; Six Days in the Life of; The dog issue; All of Kate's solo adventures; The two concluding issues

    There were only two issues I didn't really care for. I didn't like the issue detailing the Clown's origin. Just seemed unnecessary. The guy only appeared sporadically, and it's not like he had a history that really separated him from other street level villains. I also didn't really care for the Winter Cartoon Special. Seemed like unnecessary padding. I actually would've been pissed had I been keeping up with the series monthly and that issue dropped.
    Last edited by manymade1; 11-25-2019 at 12:32 PM.

  7. #262
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    All those characters showing up in Freefall, it's going to look like Clint is collecting Steve and Natasha's boys, somehow.
    This is a signature. It has letters on it, and those letters form words. Words like these. I will not quote anything because I'm uninspired but, I read a lot: I could!

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  8. #263
    I hate Christmas Matternativ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manymade1 View Post
    That's interesting. The issues do tend to have a lot of panels, so I guess I can understand why it might have taken a while.

    As far as the Kate issues, I actually really enjoy the art in those.

    Edit: I just finished the run and wow, I'm honestly at a loss for words. That final panel almost drove me to tears; I can only imagine how it must've been to people that were keeping up with the run from the beginning.

    I like that the run was pretty short. I feel like the slice of life angle would've really run it's course had Fraction and Aja decided to pad it out for a year or two longer.

    It was so awesome seeing Clint and Kate grow. Kate, especially, had a really nice growth considering the time frame was pretty short. I felt like she learned something at the end of all her solo adventures. As far as Clint goes, it sucks, because I feel like we'll never get a writer that treats him as well as Fraction and Aja. I mean sure, he'll get plenty of spotlight, but when else will someone take the time to treat him like an actual human being?

    Stand out stories: Cherry; Six Days in the Life of; The dog issue; All of Kate's solo adventures; The two concluding issues

    There were only two issues I didn't really care for. I didn't like the issue detailing the Clown's origin. Just seemed unnecessary. The guy only appeared sporadically, and it's not like he had a history that really separated him from other street level villains. I also didn't really care for the Winter Cartoon Special. Seemed like unnecessary padding. I actually would've been pissed had I been keeping up with the series monthly and that issue dropped.
    It's actually the longest Solo run Clint ever had if I am not mistaken.

    The problem with it was that most Writers since then tried to mimic the kind of personality Fraction was writing with very, very mixed results which is in part to blame on the fact that "Hawkguy" doesn't work nearly as well outside the context of a comedic book where it's in stark contract to everyone else around him and often makes him look like a goof in the not so positive sense.
    "̶l̶̶e̶̶t̶'̶s̶̶ ̶̶h̶̶a̶̶v̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶s̶̶o̶̶m̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶f̶̶u̶̶n̶̶,̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶h̶̶i̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶b̶̶e̶̶a̶̶t̶̶ ̶̶i̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶s̶̶i̶̶c̶̶k̶̶.̶̶ ̶̶i̶̶ ̶̶w̶̶a̶̶n̶̶n̶̶a̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶a̶̶k̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶a̶̶ ̶̶r̶̶i̶̶d̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶o̶̶n̶̶ ̶̶y̶̶o̶̶u̶̶r̶̶ ̶̶d̶̶i̶̶s̶̶c̶̶o̶̶s̶̶t̶̶i̶̶c̶̶k̶̶"
    "Let's have some fun, this riff is sick. I wanna mosh around in the Circle Pit!"

    Matt's Stuff [Blog]: Fire Emblem Three Houses Campaigns & Characters - R A N K E D

  9. #264
    Extraordinary Member Winterboy's Avatar
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  10. #265
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterboy View Post
    The only time the shades are forgivable is in a casual setting .

  11. #266
    Mighty Member K7P5V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matternativ View Post
    Freefall #1 Variant by Dave Cockrum
    Totally awesome! Definitely an all-time classic!

  12. #267
    Condescending Member manymade1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matternativ View Post
    The problem with it was that most Writers since then tried to mimic the kind of personality Fraction was writing with very, very mixed results which is in part to blame on the fact that "Hawkguy" doesn't work nearly as well outside the context of a comedic book where it's in stark contract to everyone else around him and often makes him look like a goof in the not so positive sense.
    Ah, I can see how that'd be problematic. On one hand it would make sense to confine Clint to a comic in the style of Fraction's run for too long. He's just too big for that. On the other, Fraction's characterization of him was so good, it seems like a waste to not continue it.

  13. #268
    I hate Christmas Matternativ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manymade1 View Post
    Ah, I can see how that'd be problematic. On one hand it would make sense to confine Clint to a comic in the style of Fraction's run for too long. He's just too big for that. On the other, Fraction's characterization of him was so good, it seems like a waste to not continue it.
    Yes indeed but to stay on the positivity train: I'd you want to read a book that not only pulled that off great and even expanded on it in a sense I'd suggest you take a look at Alex Kot's run on Secret Avengers which I believe came out around the same time as Fractions Hawkeye and has, in my humble opinion, all the heart and humor one could ask for.


    What I would not recommend to read and what's the worst example of the issue I described above was the direct follow up to Fraction:
    All New Hawkeye by Jeff Lemire.
    Last edited by Matternativ; 11-26-2019 at 06:23 AM.
    "̶l̶̶e̶̶t̶'̶s̶̶ ̶̶h̶̶a̶̶v̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶s̶̶o̶̶m̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶f̶̶u̶̶n̶̶,̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶h̶̶i̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶b̶̶e̶̶a̶̶t̶̶ ̶̶i̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶s̶̶i̶̶c̶̶k̶̶.̶̶ ̶̶i̶̶ ̶̶w̶̶a̶̶n̶̶n̶̶a̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶a̶̶k̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶a̶̶ ̶̶r̶̶i̶̶d̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶o̶̶n̶̶ ̶̶y̶̶o̶̶u̶̶r̶̶ ̶̶d̶̶i̶̶s̶̶c̶̶o̶̶s̶̶t̶̶i̶̶c̶̶k̶̶"
    "Let's have some fun, this riff is sick. I wanna mosh around in the Circle Pit!"

    Matt's Stuff [Blog]: Fire Emblem Three Houses Campaigns & Characters - R A N K E D

  14. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matternativ View Post
    It's actually the longest Solo run Clint ever had if I am not mistaken.
    Its his longest solo run of a book with his name in the title. But Clint's longest running solo feature was the SOLO AVENGERS/AVENGERS SPOTLIGHT series, which ran for 40 issues--35 of which had an ongoing Hawkeye solo series.

  15. #270
    I hate Christmas Matternativ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dermie View Post
    Its his longest solo run of a book with his name in the title. But Clint's longest running solo feature was the SOLO AVENGERS/AVENGERS SPOTLIGHT series, which ran for 40 issues--35 of which had an ongoing Hawkeye solo series.
    The more you know!
    "̶l̶̶e̶̶t̶'̶s̶̶ ̶̶h̶̶a̶̶v̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶s̶̶o̶̶m̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶f̶̶u̶̶n̶̶,̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶h̶̶i̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶b̶̶e̶̶a̶̶t̶̶ ̶̶i̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶s̶̶i̶̶c̶̶k̶̶.̶̶ ̶̶i̶̶ ̶̶w̶̶a̶̶n̶̶n̶̶a̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶a̶̶k̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶a̶̶ ̶̶r̶̶i̶̶d̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶o̶̶n̶̶ ̶̶y̶̶o̶̶u̶̶r̶̶ ̶̶d̶̶i̶̶s̶̶c̶̶o̶̶s̶̶t̶̶i̶̶c̶̶k̶̶"
    "Let's have some fun, this riff is sick. I wanna mosh around in the Circle Pit!"

    Matt's Stuff [Blog]: Fire Emblem Three Houses Campaigns & Characters - R A N K E D

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