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  1. #106
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    I know I shouldn’t just rant because it’s not gonna make anyone feel better.
    But it is really frustrating to see how Marvel is treating Clint these days. I follow the news and also check the solicitations every month, and lately I’ve been getting nothing but disappointment.
    I know there are other characters who are treated far worse (say Hank Pym), but still I feel very sad about it.
    Also I keep feeling that maybe in the future Marvel will decide to kill of Clint again, and this time maybe he won’t be brought back within a short period of time like last time. Maybe he’ll get the Bruce Banner treatment ...

  2. #107
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    I blame it on the fact his most recent movie appearance involve a long retired identity. Probably going to have to wait until his tv show gets picked up.

    Speaking of which how do you guys feel about the show adopting Barney, Swordsmaster and Circus of Crime?

  3. #108
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    Plenty of key Avengers like Clint, Wanda, Pietro, and Sam are falling by the wayside because of this totally asinine limit on genuine Avengers titles. At least Hank and Vision have upcoming Iron Man stuff, which is becoming a stealth Avengers book.

    I think MCU Swordsmaster could be pretty cool. They could easily make it a thematic explanation for why he uses a blade in Endgame.
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  4. #109
    The One Above All 616MarvelYear is LeapYear's Avatar
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    Marvel Team-Up #22 Jun 1974
    Spider-Man and Hawkeye battle Quasimodo the Living Computer in "The Messiah Machine!"
    While Spider-Man is web-slinging across the city, he is so deep in thought he doesn't notice Hawkeye firing an arrow at him.
    Although his web-line gets severed, the wall-crawler saves himself by gripping the side of a building.
    However, this leaves him open to being pinned with arrows by Hawkeye. Spider-Man pulls free, yet Hawkeye lunges for him.
    Although the wall-crawler manages to fight him off, the bowman keeps coming at him.
    Spider-Man demands to know why Hawkeye was attacking him and is told that the surprise attack was meant to get his attention.
    Spider-Man is not impressed and tells Hawkeye his reasons had better be good.

    Hawkeye tells Spider-Man how he had cut ties with the Avengers recently in order to run solo.
    The other day, he had spotted an electronics supply truck being stolen.
    Swinging into action, the former Avenger tried to stop the thieves with a flame arrow.
    When the crooks emerged from the truck, he attempted to incapacitate them, only to learn that they were robots.
    Hawkeye was blasted by a ray gun, but as the robots made their getaway he managed to hitch a ride on the back of their truck.
    It took him to a mansion upstate in Westchester. When the robots began offloading the truck,
    he jumped one of the robots and stole its coveralls and hat. However, when a massive robot came to inspect it's subordinates,
    it immediately detected Hawkeye. With his cover blown, Hawkeye made a quick escape.

    Concluding his story, Hawkeye asks Spider-Man for help investigating this situation further as he doesn't want to go crawling back to the Avengers.
    Spider-Man decides to tag along to see what is going on. Back at the Westchester mansion, the Automatoid reports to it's master,
    the living computer known as Quasimodo. Quasimodo is furious to learn that his minions allowed a human to escape.
    Suddenly, he is alerted to the arrival of both Hawkeye and Spider-Man on the premises.
    The two heroes believe they have arrived undetected since Spider-Man rigged up a device that should have masked their presence.
    They soon learn how wrong they are when they are ambushed by an army of robots.
    The two heroes easily smash the robots using their combined skills.
    However, before they can get into the mansion, a trap door opens up under them and they fall into containment tubes in Quasimodo's lab.

    Spider-Man recalls that Quasimodo was seemingly destroyed during a battle with the Beast.
    The sentient machine explains that it is tired of the humanoid life it was given by the Silver Surfer
    and intends to link itself up with the massive computer system that unit created. To dispose of Spider-Man and Hawkeye,
    he ejects them out of the tubes at a high rate of speed. However, Spider-Man and Hawkeye manage to save themselves with their unique skills.

    They leap back down into the lab, much to the frustration of Quasimodo.
    It orders the Automatoids to attack them while he connects with the chair.

    In order to stop them, Hawkeye snares the robots in metal cables which he plugs into the power source, shorting them all out.
    With the robots down, they find they are too late to stop Quasimodo from plugging into the control chair for his supercomputer.
    However, the feedback from the electrical surge shorted out Quasimodo's mind.
    Presuming their foe has been vanquished, Spider-Man switches off the computer and they depart.

    Script by Len Wein. Pencils by Sal Buscema. Inks by Frank Giacoia and Dave Hunt.
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  5. #110
    I hate Christmas Matternativ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyan View Post
    I know I shouldnít just rant because itís not gonna make anyone feel better.
    But it is really frustrating to see how Marvel is treating Clint these days. I follow the news and also check the solicitations every month, and lately Iíve been getting nothing but disappointment.
    I know there are other characters who are treated far worse (say Hank Pym), but still I feel very sad about it.
    Also I keep feeling that maybe in the future Marvel will decide to kill of Clint again, and this time maybe he wonít be brought back within a short period of time like last time. Maybe heíll get the Bruce Banner treatment ...
    I feel you but to be fair between Old Man Hawkeye, West Coast Avengers, Dead Man Logan and Tales of Suspense we got plenty of Hawkeye last year hence why I'm hesitant to be too upset just yet.
    "̶l̶̶e̶̶t̶'̶s̶̶ ̶̶h̶̶a̶̶v̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶s̶̶o̶̶m̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶f̶̶u̶̶n̶̶,̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶h̶̶i̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶b̶̶e̶̶a̶̶t̶̶ ̶̶i̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶s̶̶i̶̶c̶̶k̶̶.̶̶ ̶̶i̶̶ ̶̶w̶̶a̶̶n̶̶n̶̶a̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶a̶̶k̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶a̶̶ ̶̶r̶̶i̶̶d̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶o̶̶n̶̶ ̶̶y̶̶o̶̶u̶̶r̶̶ ̶̶d̶̶i̶̶s̶̶c̶̶o̶̶s̶̶t̶̶i̶̶c̶̶k̶̶"
    "Let's have some fun, this riff is sick. I wanna mosh around in the Circle Pit!"

    Matt's Stuff [Blog]: Superhero Movies 2017 - R A N K E D

  6. #111
    Caperucita Roja Zaresh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matternativ View Post
    I feel you but to be fair between Old Man Hawkeye, West Coast Avengers, Dead Man Logan and Tales of Suspense we got plenty of Hawkeye last year hence why I'm hesitant to be too upset just yet.
    I think you guys probably didn't like that Tales of Suspense mini all that much. But I honestly wouldn't mind a new one like it, with the same cast, even. In any case, it's too soon, I think, to say he is left alone. He was in No Road Home just recently, even if it wasn't a main character exactly. That was a big story arc, as far as I know. It's not like how he was present in the main line of books until a decade ago, but it could be worse.
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  7. #112
    I hate Christmas Matternativ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaresh View Post
    I think you guys probably didn't like that Tales of Suspense mini all that much. But I honestly wouldn't mind a new one like it, with the same cast, even. In any case, it's too soon, I think, to say he is left alone. He was in No Road Home just recently, even if it wasn't a main character exactly. That was a big story arc, as far as I know. It's not like how he was present in the main line of books until a decade ago, but it could be worse.
    Tales of Suspense was superb for the first three issues and was probably the coolest representation of "modern" Hawkeye I've seen around.

    Sadly the Black Widow Stuff fell kind of flat in comparison to Clint and Bucky being the worst/best Buddy Cops around.

    So by all means: Give Rosenberg the reigns over a story the features Clint for a year or longer as far as I'm concerned.


    You are right with No Surrender and while it was a step up from the previous crossover by the same creative team it was all so forgettable and lame that I ...well I forgot it happened.
    "̶l̶̶e̶̶t̶'̶s̶̶ ̶̶h̶̶a̶̶v̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶s̶̶o̶̶m̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶f̶̶u̶̶n̶̶,̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶h̶̶i̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶b̶̶e̶̶a̶̶t̶̶ ̶̶i̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶s̶̶i̶̶c̶̶k̶̶.̶̶ ̶̶i̶̶ ̶̶w̶̶a̶̶n̶̶n̶̶a̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶a̶̶k̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶a̶̶ ̶̶r̶̶i̶̶d̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶o̶̶n̶̶ ̶̶y̶̶o̶̶u̶̶r̶̶ ̶̶d̶̶i̶̶s̶̶c̶̶o̶̶s̶̶t̶̶i̶̶c̶̶k̶̶"
    "Let's have some fun, this riff is sick. I wanna mosh around in the Circle Pit!"

    Matt's Stuff [Blog]: Superhero Movies 2017 - R A N K E D

  8. #113
    Caperucita Roja Zaresh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matternativ View Post
    Tales of Suspense was superb for the first three issues and was probably the coolest representation of "modern" Hawkeye I've seen around.

    Sadly the Black Widow Stuff fell kind of flat in comparison to Clint and Bucky being the worst/best Buddy Cops around.

    So by all means: Give Rosenberg the reigns over a story the features Clint for a year or longer as far as I'm concerned.


    You are right with No Surrender and while it was a step up from the previous crossover by the same creative team it was all so forgettable and lame that I ...well I forgot it happened.
    Yeah, the dynamics between Buck and Clint were pretty cool. Very cokplementary personalities and voices, imho. That's what made me read the whole book, actually. But I know that some people argued about Clint being shown as just a jokester (which he's not, and was not in the book either I think, not completely. He was even working as some sort of straight man to all the deadly spy madness) or incompetent at times (which he wasn't either. Just read Bucky's boxes: he was mad and annoyed, not because the jokes, or the chatting, but because he sees how good Clint is, and how little he decides to do with it sometimes, which is what annoys everyone else too, for modern Clint. Well, I think it also annoyed Bobbi at times not so recently, if memory serves me right). That's why I guessed (wrongly) that you guys wouldn't have liked the mini so much. Glad I was wrong :3.
    Last edited by Zaresh; 06-24-2019 at 04:28 PM.
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  9. #114
    I hate Christmas Matternativ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaresh View Post
    Yeah, the dynamics between Buck and Clint were pretty cool. Very cokplementary personalities and voices, imho. That's what made me read the whole book, actually. But I know that some people argued about Clint being shown as just a jokester (which he's not, and was not in the book either I think, not completely. He was even working as some sort of straight man to all the deadly spy madness) or incompetent at times (which he wasn't either. Just read Bucky's boxes: he was mad and annoyed, not because the jokes, or the chatting, but because he sees how good Clint is, and how little he decides to do with it sometimes, which is what annoys everyone else too, for modern Clint. Well, I think it also annoyed Bobbi at times not so recently, if memory serves me right). That's why I guessed (wrongly) that you guys wouldn't have liked the mini so much. Glad I was wrong :3.
    There is some sort of consensus here that most fans are pretty much over "Hawkguy" because so few writers know how to make it work, precisely for the reasons you stated, especially the incompetence part.
    Tales of Suspense suffered from none of that.

    I think the only ones (here) who didn't get enjoyment out if it are those who are still upset Clint isn't leading the Thunderballs anymore.
    "̶l̶̶e̶̶t̶'̶s̶̶ ̶̶h̶̶a̶̶v̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶s̶̶o̶̶m̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶f̶̶u̶̶n̶̶,̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶h̶̶i̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶b̶̶e̶̶a̶̶t̶̶ ̶̶i̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶s̶̶i̶̶c̶̶k̶̶.̶̶ ̶̶i̶̶ ̶̶w̶̶a̶̶n̶̶n̶̶a̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶a̶̶k̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶a̶̶ ̶̶r̶̶i̶̶d̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶o̶̶n̶̶ ̶̶y̶̶o̶̶u̶̶r̶̶ ̶̶d̶̶i̶̶s̶̶c̶̶o̶̶s̶̶t̶̶i̶̶c̶̶k̶̶"
    "Let's have some fun, this riff is sick. I wanna mosh around in the Circle Pit!"

    Matt's Stuff [Blog]: Superhero Movies 2017 - R A N K E D

  10. #115
    Fantastic Member OOTCS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaresh View Post
    Yeah, the dynamics between Buck and Clint were pretty cool. Very cokplementary personalities and voices, imho. That's what made me read the whole book, actually. But I know that some people argued about Clint being shown as just a jokester (which he's not, and was not in the book either I think, not completely. He was even working as some sort of straight man to all the deadly spy madness) or incompetent at times (which he wasn't either. Just read Bucky's boxes: he was mad and annoyed, not because the jokes, or the chatting, but because he sees how good Clint is, and how little he decides to do with it sometimes, which is what annoys everyone else too, for modern Clint. Well, I think it also annoyed Bobbi at times not so recently, if memory serves me right). That's why I guessed (wrongly) that you guys wouldn't have liked the mini so much. Glad I was wrong :3.
    I think I was the only one who didn't really like the Clint/Bucky interactions, because it seemed like Clint was being straight-up mean and it was played for laughs. And compared to their last interactions from the Winter Soldier series, I found it out of the blue and jarring. (I've never seen anyone agree with me on this so I know it's a very unpopular opinion, no need to argue )

  11. #116
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OOTCS View Post
    I think I was the only one who didn't really like the Clint/Bucky interactions, because it seemed like Clint was being straight-up mean and it was played for laughs. And compared to their last interactions from the Winter Soldier series, I found it out of the blue and jarring. (I've never seen anyone agree with me on this so I know it's a very unpopular opinion, no need to argue )
    It did feel out-of-sync with how their relationship developed over Brubaker's Cap run.

    Granted, both were in very different places (and almost characterizations) during that run.

  12. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    It did feel out-of-sync with how their relationship developed over Brubaker's Cap run.

    Granted, both were in very different places (and almost characterizations) during that run.
    It's been a while since then too.
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  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by OOTCS View Post
    I think I was the only one who didn't really like the Clint/Bucky interactions, because it seemed like Clint was being straight-up mean and it was played for laughs. And compared to their last interactions from the Winter Soldier series, I found it out of the blue and jarring. (I've never seen anyone agree with me on this so I know it's a very unpopular opinion, no need to argue )
    I 100% agree! Some of the bickering was funny, but their attitudes made 0 sense towards each other. Bucky was dunking on Hawkeye for not doing enough with his careeer since WCA which like .... what? Clint led tons of teams including the Thunderbolts that Bucky had just left lol.

    I get why Rosenberg structured the series like that, but it made no sense based on their past interactions; if he wanted to take that angle he should have found a genuine reason for them to be at each others’ throats.

  14. #119
    Caperucita Roja Zaresh's Avatar
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    I don't know. I read it all as Bucky being sarcastic, or rather cynical, which is not so out of chacacter for him, I think. He's a very nice guy as far as I remember, but also a bit on the dry and cynical side. And I can see him doing those remarks in the place he was at the moment, after Hydracap and Natasha being dead and Kobik and what's not. But it's true that he's also a character I'm just familiar with and not a real fan of.
    This is a signature. It has letters on it, and those letters form words. Words like these. I will not quote anything because I'm uninspired but, I read a lot: I could!

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  15. #120
    I hate Christmas Matternativ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaresh View Post
    I don't know. I read it all as Bucky being sarcastic, or rather cynical, which is not so out of chacacter for him, I think. He's a very nice guy as far as I remember, but also a bit on the dry and cynical side. And I can see him doing those remarks in the place he was at the moment, after Hydracap and Natasha being dead and Kobik and what's not. But it's true that he's also a character I'm just familiar with and not a real fan of.
    Yeah, he was just kinda annoyed with Clint being so easy going and he HAS gotten more easy going than back when the whole bruh-baker (hehe) run happened.

    I certainly don't see it as a stretch other than in that one Spiderman Hawkeye teamup issue were Clint was suddenly a huge dick who also doubted freaking Spiderman.

    A guy he's been teaming up with for decades xD
    "̶l̶̶e̶̶t̶'̶s̶̶ ̶̶h̶̶a̶̶v̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶s̶̶o̶̶m̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶f̶̶u̶̶n̶̶,̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶h̶̶i̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶b̶̶e̶̶a̶̶t̶̶ ̶̶i̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶s̶̶i̶̶c̶̶k̶̶.̶̶ ̶̶i̶̶ ̶̶w̶̶a̶̶n̶̶n̶̶a̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶a̶̶k̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶a̶̶ ̶̶r̶̶i̶̶d̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶o̶̶n̶̶ ̶̶y̶̶o̶̶u̶̶r̶̶ ̶̶d̶̶i̶̶s̶̶c̶̶o̶̶s̶̶t̶̶i̶̶c̶̶k̶̶"
    "Let's have some fun, this riff is sick. I wanna mosh around in the Circle Pit!"

    Matt's Stuff [Blog]: Superhero Movies 2017 - R A N K E D

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