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  1. #1186
    Put a smile on that face Immortal Weapon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BatKeaton View Post
    My biggest gripe now:

    How Old Cap or the Peggy Avengers managed to defeat Thanos in the Peggy Timeline?
    I guess that Old Cap influenced the past, informed anyone about Thanos and found a way to make the stones unavailable.
    So Peggy Thanos never snapped the Peggy population. Great.
    Their grandchild can fill in for Cap in the present. The super soldier formula is hereditary

  2. #1187
    Anyone. Anywhere.Anytime. Arsenal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Shape View Post
    I donít think that is what she said exactly. It was something about her reality collapsing from the stoneís absence. Steven grew old in an alternate reality.
    Her reality doesnít collapse because the stone itself is gone, it collapses because Strange canít use to it beat Dorm in 2017. If Steve brings the stone back shortly after Hulk leaves with it, that never happens so the alternate branch no long exists. There might be some slight differences in the sequence of events but returning the stones shortly after they were taken prevents the major disruptions from occurring.

  3. #1188
    Incredible Member bobellis75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJBopp View Post
    Exactly. Steve specifically says he will leave no branches remaining. It's curious that so many people seem not to get this.
    Agreed...I thought it was pretty spelled out when they first settled on the plan and again when he was about to jump back in time. no branches would be left, because they would put the stones back where they belonged. And he took the hammer back as well to ensure that didn't cause any issues.

  4. #1189
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJBopp View Post
    Exactly. Steve specifically says he will leave no branches remaining. It's curious that so many people seem not to get this.
    Well, if that is the case, the time travel rules of this universe don't make much sense. I mean, removing the stones creates a branched reality? Why? Even the time traveler's presence in the past IS a big change, to begin with.

    Also, when Cap went to Peggy, he created a NEW TIMELINE anyway (confirmed by the Russos), without removing any stone. So the movie proves that your presence creates the branched reality in the very first place.

  5. #1190
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobellis75 View Post
    Agreed...I thought it was pretty spelled out when they first settled on the plan and again when he was about to jump back in time. no branches would be left, because they would put the stones back where they belonged. And he took the hammer back as well to ensure that didn't cause any issues.
    Which issues? That is not the MCU prime timeline past anymore. Past of the MCU prime timeline cannot be changed. It's intact. You must not "fix" it. Remember the Baby Thanos theory?

    Cap is doing that to help those branched realities from loosing coherence.

  6. #1191
    Anyone. Anywhere.Anytime. Arsenal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BatKeaton View Post
    Well, if that is the case, the time travel rules of this universe don't make sense. I mean, removing the stones creates a branched reality? Why? Even the time traveler's presence in the past IS a big change.

    Also, when Cap went to Peggy, he created a NEW TIMELINE anyway (confirmed by the Russos), without removing any stone. So the movie proves that your presence creates the branched reality in the very first place.
    Because removing the stones isn’t the only way to create a new reality. The presence is a change yes but it doesn’t necessarily make it a big one. The reason the stones are so important because they have tend to play a big part of the universe status quo so taking them off the board changes the board completely.

    If you kill Thanos before he’s born, that creates a new reality where he no longer exists but it’ll have no impact on yours. The reason why returning the stone eliminates the branch is because it’s a change that’s easily corrected. Replacing a dead baby Thanos with an alive baby Thanos is not. This all falls within the rules of time travel established within Endgame.

    I’d even argue the events of S5 AoS doesn’t completely dispute this and all they did was keep creating branches in reality until they stumbled on the one they wanted.
    Last edited by Arsenal; 05-03-2019 at 08:09 AM.

  7. #1192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arsenal View Post
    Because removing the stones isn’t the only way to create a new reality. The presence is a change yes but it doesn’t necessarily make it a big one. The reason the stones are so important because they have tend to play a big part of the universe status quo so taking them off the board changes the board completely.

    If you kill Thanos before he’s born, that create a new reality but it’ll have no impact on yours. These all fall within the rules of time travel established within Endgame.

    I’d even argue the events of S5 AoS doesn’t completely dispute this and all they did was keep creating branches in reality until they stumbled on the one they wanted.
    A change is a change. The presence of the time traveler is a big change, no matter what he does or says.

    Said that, Cap is returning the stones because those realities need them in order to get their events (good or bad) played out. He's returing them to the branched realities, not the MCU prime timeline past. That past is fixed, you cannot change it.

    People keep not getting some concepts straight.

    Some of the dialogue was messed up, plain and simple.

  8. #1193
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    The Russos:

    But then …he doesn’t come back. At least, not as we know him. He finds Peggy Carter and stays with her.
    So, has Cap been living in the past this whole time — or did he go and live in another dimension?
    The directors say it’s the latter.
    “If Cap were to go back into the past and live there, he would create a branched reality,” Joe explained. “The question then becomes, how is he back in this reality to give the shield away?”
    The brothers smile.
    “Interesting question, right?” Joe said. “Maybe there’s a story there.
    There’s a lot of layers built into this movie and we spent three years thinking through it, so it’s fun to talk about it and hopefully fill in holes for people so they understand what we’re thinking.”
    There are other questions in this sequence that set up this future story…

  9. #1194
    Anyone. Anywhere.Anytime. Arsenal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BatKeaton View Post
    A change is a change. The presence of the time traveler is a big change, no matter what he does or says.

    Said that, Cap is returning the stones because those realities need them in order to get their events (good or bad) played out. He's returing them to the branched realities, not the MCU prime timeline past. That past is fixed, you cannot change it.

    People keep not getting some concepts straight.

    Some of the dialogue was messed up, plain and simple.
    This doesn’t dispute a single thing I said. If Cap returns the time-stone to the Ancient one after Hulk takes it from her, the reality where Strange faces Dom in 2017 without the stone no longer exists. The only change is the ancient one meets Banner & (Steve) in 2012 but the same sequence of events will still play out as if the stone was never removed.

    Nor does it automatically mean that Cap creating a reality where he married Peggy prevents any of the events from the movies. It is completely possible where the significant sequence of events in that timeline are the exact same ones that out played in the OG timeline.
    Last edited by Arsenal; 05-03-2019 at 08:32 AM.

  10. #1195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arsenal View Post
    This doesn’t dispute a single thing I said.

    Nor does it automatically mean that Cap creating a reality where he married Peggy prevents any of the events from the movies. It is completely possible where the significant sequence of events in that timeline are the exact same ones that out played in the OG timeline.
    The events of the movies belong to the MCU prime timeline, that is intact and you cannot touch it in any way, shape or form.

    Cap returning the stones is to ensure those branched realities have a chance and coherence. So the Ancient One was wrong, the branched realities don't stop to exist just because 1 stone has been removed.

  11. #1196
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiderClops View Post
    You cannot be serious.

    What the hell is this "it doesn't have stakes!" even means? Because I keep seeing this "criticism", still don't understand what it is.
    Yeah, I can't imagine how anyone would watch Endgame and come out complaining there no "stakes".

    It rings a bit hollow considering everything that's happened between Infinity War and Endgame.

    Unless one is expecting half the Avengers to perish which would suggest that one has no investment in these characters.
    "Obviously not all conservatives are racists/bigots but all racists/bigots claim to be conservative"- Unknown

  12. #1197
    Fantastic Member Wandering_Wand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmeyers View Post
    Have you seen Thor 3 Ragnarok? He's been pretty cheesy since then.
    Eh, yes and no.
    I've seen Rangnarok and actually own it. However, that's not how he was in Infinity War. In IW, he was back to being all business, similar to how he was in the first 15 mins. of Endgame. Then they just suddenly 180'd him in what I think was just a set up for GotG3.

    Quote Originally Posted by SpiderClops View Post
    You cannot be serious.

    What the hell is this "it doesn't have stakes!" even means? Because I keep seeing this "criticism", still don't understand what it is.
    I am serious and it's my opinion.
    It's OK if you don't understand what it means. But, here's my take: It does have stakes, but at the end of the day, you know everyone is going to be fine. When Infinity War ended, I didn't think for one second none of those characters weren't coming back. Ok, fine, I can accept that for that movie. Then we get to the big ending after 22 films and you're telling me that only Tony Stark and Natasha perish after all of the years, events, etc. and fighting Thanos and his entire army? It's a comic film, I get that. But it's one of those things that what would have really done it for me on an emotional scale by seeing Cap perish + maybe one or two others. I would have liked more "consequences," that's all I'm saying.

    A piece of advice for you, you shouldn't wear your rose colored glasses all the time.

    Edit:

    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    Yeah, I can't imagine how anyone would watch Endgame and come out complaining there no "stakes".

    It rings a bit hollow considering everything that's happened between Infinity War and Endgame.

    Unless one is expecting half the Avengers to perish which would suggest that one has no investment in these characters.

    Read my response above. It appears there's simply an impasse with my thoughts and some of yours, which is expected and totally fine.
    It's not hollow and it's not that I have "no investment" in these characters when obviously I do.
    Last edited by Wandering_Wand; 05-03-2019 at 08:40 AM.

  13. #1198
    Incredible Member Robotech Master's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arsenal View Post

    I’d even argue the events of S5 AoS doesn’t completely dispute this and all they did was keep creating branches in reality until they stumbled on the one they wanted.
    Fitz-Simmons' son from the future where Earth was destroyed still exists because he travelled with them back to their timeline where they succeeded, he didn't get erased or experience a memory change despite the fact that his childhood should be completely different now. They are also going to recover past-Fitz from cryo-stasis to replace the Fitz who died, but if there was only one timeline, removing frozen Fitz would paradox things out since he would no longer make it to the future to help them get back to the past in the first place. Those all heavily suggest that the successful end of the loop was a new timeline.

  14. #1199
    Anyone. Anywhere.Anytime. Arsenal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BatKeaton View Post
    The events of the movies belong to the MCU prime timeline, that is intact and you cannot touch it in any way, shape or form.

    Cap returning the stones is to ensure those branched realities have a chance and coherence. So the Ancient One was wrong, the branched realities don't stop to exist just because 1 stone has been removed.
    Fine, they don't stop to exist when a stone is removed & returned. Instead of changing completely (as they would if a stone is taken but no returned) they simply mirror the events of the MCU prime timeline with insignificant deviations along the way.

    Happy now?

  15. #1200
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Now this is nitpicky but right after the snap, Hawkeye's family called him on his phone. Um how? They "died" 5 years ago and he wasnt living in that house. How would the phone even have service, especially since the bill hasnt been paid in 5 YEARS?

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