Avengers: Endgame Spoilers

[Midvillian1322]

Loved the movie, felt epic and nice end to everything. A few time travel things that made me scratch my head but nothing that effect my enjoyment.

So did cap tell Bucky what he was gonna do or does Bucky just know him that well? Cause clearly Bucky knew cap wasnt coming back.

Scene that got me the most was Happy holding and talking to Morgan about Cheeseburgers at the funeral.

[motherofpearl1]

In the plus column , I can FINALLY cosplay Thor without hours at the gym.

Somebody pass me another cheeseburger and loaded fries

Best post ever!

[BeastieRunner]

Best post ever!

Fat Thor and Fat Spider-Man are in play in less than a year.

[Miles To Go]

I still think the Falcon + Bucky show should be titled AIR WOLF.

Too bad they can't call in Jan-Micheal Vincent

[JKtheMac]

Old Cap comes from the branched timeline. He visits the main timeline.

No the movie contradicts this.

[Miles To Go]

No the movie contradicts this.

It did? I must have missed a line, because basically the only way I could stop complaining was by following that logic

[JKtheMac]

Just saw the movie tonight! Absolutely amazing conclusion to the infinity saga in the MCU. There is so much to unpack here. But I am excited for the future of the MCU.

One thing I didn’t get. Where was the Gamora from the other timeline after the final battle? We see all the other all the other guardians with Thor on the ship but she isn’t there. I was like she didn’t get killed off screen or did she go back to her original timeline?

That is interesting isn’t it. I suspect that they are leaving their options open. The main plan being she is still in the Soul Stone and can be rescued, but the backup being that they can use the alt-version if they need to. It could be, we have seen the last of her.

[chamber-music]

So since Edwin Jarvis had a cameo and he 1st appeared in the Agent Carter TV series does that now officially end the "Is Marvel TV canon in the MCU debate"?

For me the TV side is canon.

Agent Carter was always going to be acknowledged as it was a offspring of Marvel studios film division. Marvel Studios co-President Louis D'Esposito directed the one shot and one of the Russo brothers directed a episode of Agent Carter.

Some of the other Marvel shows are purely the creation of Marvel's television division and had little input from the film side of the company so are less likely to be acknowledged in the movies.

[JKtheMac]

so basically, MCU time travel seems to work like 616 time travel. makes sense.

In that the comic time travel has more than one set of rules and isn’t set in stone then yes. But I presume you mean the comics always use branching time which is wrong.

[Vworp Vworp]

This is all perfectly how I understand it and agree how it should be except for one thing that is wrong: Old Cap shouldn't be in the Main Timeline at all. Peggy would have still married and had children with whatever guy that wasn't Cap, secret identity to preserve timeline being irrelevant.

ETA: The only way Old Cap back in Main Timeline works is if Cap spent most of his life in Timeline #WhicheverOneWasLastStoneReturnedNumber and then maybe after Peggy died (possibly around the same time as Civil War in Main Timeline), Cap decided to use his unused Pym Particle to finally return to pass on his shield and title.

ETA2: I just realized Cap would have had to use the return Particle to go back to the 40s to have had his dance with Peggy. Oh well, they're SHIELD, I'm sure they just asked some altHank in the 70s to make an extra 140ml of Pymp Juice. So a Timeline 7.

ETA3: Nevermiind. I mistakenly overlooked your Timeline 6. You're good.

Hold on. Isn't this still a tat wibbly wobbly? OK, so from what we know, the Pym particles can travel through time, fair enough. But was there anything to suggest they could be used to hop back and forth between the alternate time lines that were supposedly creating all over the place? Cos if Cap does create a divergent time line when he stayed with Peggy, he's not travelling through time to return to Sam and Bucky but essentially across it, right? From his 2023 to the 'main' 2023?

OK, benefit of the doubt though, let's assume the Hank and Tony from the HappyCappy timeline figured out a way to do exactly that, to 'hop' between timelines. But then why did Cap go to all the trouble of going and sitting on the bench all casual and chilled rather than just appearing back on the platform? Sure, there are all sorts of ways we can hypothesise and debate how and why Cap would have done it, but the movie certainly doesn't make any suggestion of that at all. That whole scene is clearly designed to imply HappyCap's been in this timeline since the moment he chose to return to Peggy.

Which to be honest, I'm more comfortable with. Cos if Cap had always been around, then all I have to believe is that Peggy's kids were also Cap's kids, her story about her husband was more on the nose than anyone suspected (Cos Cap saved himself that day too so she wasn't technically lying) and he had been around the whole time, keeping a low profile and enjoying a normal life, even to the extent that Peggy had to keep it from young Cap on account that it hadn't happened to him yet. Sure, it's a huuuuuge stretch to believe all of that would be possible.

But I vastly prefer it to the idea that Steve Rogers was so very down with the whole 'alternate timeline' idea that he had absolutely no moral issues with stealing another man's wife and erasing her children from existence.

[JKtheMac]

It did? I must have missed a line, because basically the only way I could stop complaining was by following that logic

Well it was explained very clearly that branching happens, not as the heroes first thought when changes are made, but instead when a stone gets moved. Indeed the heroes were actually quite unclear about how time worked. Just because Tony created a model that allowed travel doesn’t mean they fully understand it.

Put the stones back and the branches die. That’s the only time travel rule. You can’t change destiny unless you use the stones.

[Midvillian1322]

No the movie contradicts this.

Possibly we were seeing another timeline and just assumed we were in the original. But yea cap didnt jump time lines that was old Caps timeline. I feel like there are a few questions we gonna have to wait for future movies to get answers to. Did the Guardians ending suggest that Past Gamora somehow didnt get sent back or killed? Did Ironman actually kill Thanos and his army since the goal was just to send them home probaly with they're mind wiped. I know because they got dusted that's what people thought but I think he just sent them back and that's what it looks like when the Gauntlet does soemthing in that scale.

Also Feigie had said Endgame was going to change things as we know it and rewrite marvel history. So I think they did enough not to drastically change things(like undo Morgan stark) but they did things that would have an effect and since you cant change your past create an alternate time line. All these little slip ups like Loki escaping, Hydra thinking Cap is one of them, Cap going back to stay, and if Tony killed Thanos and didnt just send them back to they're time. I mean we gotta be talking a new timeline now anyway cause they had effect on things. But by putting the stones back they havent doomed any timelines either that we know of.
Honestly I hope all of this Leads to a pissed Kang showing up in Avengers 4 or New Avengers 1 and being like what did you morons do? Maybe even they're actions lead to Kangs future or wife or whatever dying.

Edit: I know alot of people probaly disagree but I'm happy the door to Loki being alive still was left open by Ironman and Antmans blunder. I feel like alot of small thing have been altered leaving movies intact but parts of them changed. Loki being alive could be one of them.

[JKtheMac]

Possibly we were seeing another timeline and just assumed we were in the original. But yea cap didnt jump time lines that was old Caps timeline. I feel like there are a few questions we gonna have to wait for future movies to get answers to. Did the Guardians ending suggest that Past Gamora somehow didnt get sent back or killed? Did Ironman actually kill Thanos and his army since the goal was just to send them home probaly with they're mind wiped. I know because they got dusted that's what people thought but I think he just sent them back and that's what it looks like when the Gauntlet does soemthing in that scale.

It was the plan to send them back but that plan failed when the van got destroyed. For the answer we need to look at the visual clue of the dusting. When The Ancient One explains the rules she shows branches dusting in the same way that the heroes first did and the same way the villains did. The second Thanos is technically from a newly created branch as soon as Nebula travels with the gems. Tony probably dusts the branch. He has the gems, he can technically change anything in the whole of the space time continuum at will. However they still need to correct the other branches that would have been created by removing the other gems.

Also Feigie had said Endgame was going to change things as we know it and rewrite marvel history. So I think they did enough not to drastically change things(like undo Morgan stark) but they did things that would have an effect and since you cant change your past create an alternate time line.

Nothing we see backs-up the suggestion that changing things creates an alternative timeline. It was posited by Banner but then he had the truth explained to him by The Ancient One. He was wrong. The only way to branch is by taking a stone.

All these little slip ups like Loki escaping, Hydra thinking Cap is one of them, Cap going back to stay, and if Tony killed Thanos and didnt just send them back to they're time. I mean we gotta be talking a new timeline now anyway cause they had effect on things. But by putting the stones back they havent doomed any timelines either that we know of.

Eventually fans will catch up, but yes time has changed. Not by a huge amount because the stones actively correct the flow of time, but subtly and enough for Marvel to do what they want to change things at will.

Honestly I hope all of this Leads to a pissed Kang showing up in Avengers 4 or New Avengers 1 and being like what did you morons do? Maybe even they're actions lead to Kangs future or wife or whatever dying.

If they have multiple movies and or shows with a few subtle time travel shenanigans then I suspect Kang will be as inevitable as Thanos. (That phrase is a clue by the way, Thanos talks about destiny and inevitability. He knows how time travel really works.)

Edit: I know alot of people probaly disagree but I'm happy the door to Loki being alive still was left open by Ironman and Antmans blunder. I feel like alot of small thing have been altered leaving movies intact but parts of them changed. Loki being alive could be one of them.

Loki manipulating the timestream could be fun.

[JKtheMac]

Just had a thought about the MCU Kang. Maybe they should keep him in a mask for multiple movies and then cast an older RDJ when they finally tell his story.

[brettc1]

When Cap took the Soul Stone back to Vormir, did he give it to the Red Skull?

THAT was a scene I was sure we were going to see. Was disappointed when it didn’t play out.