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  1. #1741
    Silver Sentinel BeastieRunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    Maybe havent watched that movie in awhile. Just know he said Manipulating time would lead to branching realities and dimensional openings.
    Yeah, I agree. I think the implication is if you don't return a stone or the apple to the right moment after you take it, time will branch.

    And there's a rumor of an unfinished scene that was intended for the stinger at the end.

    Loki is shown teleporting to Asgard only to have Cap appear behind, "You have got to be kidding me!" Gets knocked out by Cap with the hammer and Cap teleports him back to the lobby, only for 2012 Cap appear from the stairs and knock Loki out again for "impersonating" Steve during the fight, and the stone is shown being put back in the case.
    "Always listen to the crazy scientist with a weird van or armful of blueprints and diagrams." -- Vibranium

  2. #1742
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeastieRunner View Post
    Yeah, I agree. I think the implication is if you don't return a stone or the apple to the right moment after you take it, time will branch.

    And there's a rumor of an unfinished scene that was intended for the stinger at the end.

    Loki is shown teleporting to Asgard only to have Cap appear behind, "You have got to be kidding me!" Gets knocked out by Cap with the hammer and Cap teleports him back to the lobby, only for 2012 Cap appear from the stairs and knock Loki out again for "impersonating" Steve during the fight, and the stone is shown being put back in the case.
    I mean the space stone doesnt time travel but what if Dimension hoping works like the Quantem realm. Assuming the space stone can hop dimensions and to other timelines. Maybe that's how Loki ends up at the premiere of Jaws. Everytime he jumps to another timeline he enters it and a random time in history. I believe Hiddleston said this would be the 2012 Loki in the show. So yea hes got to get back in time somehow and that all I can think off. Like without Tonys bands the Quantem realm can spit you out at any time maybe using the space stone to travel between Dimensions does the same thing. Who knows probaly wont know more for awhile.

  3. #1743
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeastieRunner View Post
    Yeah, I agree. I think the implication is if you don't return a stone or the apple to the right moment after you take it, time will branch.

    And there's a rumor of an unfinished scene that was intended for the stinger at the end.

    Loki is shown teleporting to Asgard only to have Cap appear behind, "You have got to be kidding me!" Gets knocked out by Cap with the hammer and Cap teleports him back to the lobby, only for 2012 Cap appear from the stairs and knock Loki out again for "impersonating" Steve during the fight, and the stone is shown being put back in the case.
    What's funny is that the timeline with the rogue Loki is probably the safest timeline there is.

    Loki's on the run from Thanos, but with the perfect tool, and skills, to stay ahead of him. Loki won't replace Odin, weakening him to the point of death and freeing Hela, and when Thanos does begin collecting the infinity stones, the most useful one is in the hands of Loki, who knows enough to stay away, and whom Thanos holds no leverage

    The rest, if they follow history...

  4. #1744
    Astonishing Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    Cause there was a bunch of possible ways it could go. Without him there to give Thanos the stone and then to hold back the water that one timeline wouldnt have happened. Also I think him giving Tony the Finger saying 1 it confirmed for Tony he was about to do the right thing sacraficing himself. So Strange needed to be there otherwise that time line never woulda happened or would begin to be a alternate timeline.

    In Dr Stranges movie Mordo clearly states any Manipulation of time can cause Branching timelines and dimensional openings. Dr Strange just leaving and staying in the future I think would be an issue. Also Mordo doesnt say nothing about needing to take a stone to another time to create a branch. He says any Time manipulation can cause branching in the timeline. Thought the dimensional opening part was what was important to that movie.
    I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing. If the Russos are saying Strange actually lived all those lives and was resetting time rather than just having visions, then he was there and he did those things and he saw Thanos lose because he lived it - it was done. Why go back to tell Stark when they had already won? What we saw then in "Endgame" was him living through it again but taking a chance that it would not turn out the same way. Unless what we saw was him actually living it and him saying there was only one way to win was part of the one way to win....?

    Man, I had avoided all those discussions about time travel in this thread when the movie came out because I knew it would be a pointless headache, yet here I am...
    Last edited by j9ac9k; 08-21-2019 at 08:33 PM.

  5. #1745
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeastieRunner View Post
    And there's a rumor of an unfinished scene that was intended for the stinger at the end.

    Loki is shown teleporting to Asgard only to have Cap appear behind, "You have got to be kidding me!" Gets knocked out by Cap with the hammer and Cap teleports him back to the lobby, only for 2012 Cap appear from the stairs and knock Loki out again for "impersonating" Steve during the fight, and the stone is shown being put back in the case.
    Would love to see that on the BluRay.
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  6. #1746
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing. If the Russos are saying Strange actually lived all those lives and was resetting time rather than just having visions, then he was there and he did those things and he saw Thanos lose because he lived it - it was done. Why go back to tell Stark when they had already won? What we saw then in "Endgame" was him living through it again but taking a chance that it would not turn out the same way. Unless what we saw was him actually living it and him saying there was only one way to win was part of the one way to win....?

    Man, I had avoided all those discussions about time travel in this thread when the movie came out because I knew it would be a pointless headache, yet here I am...
    Maybe he did just stay there. I mean that one time line had to happen the way we saw it anyway. So unless your asking why didnt the movie just jump forward with Strange after he said 1. But for all we know Strange did stay there. And we just watched that one timeline he lived out that worked. He failed a bunch almsot 14million times so yea maybe we just saw it last attempt. He might have spared Tony 100x prior to that but they always fell short till he added the one time line comment to give Tony the confidence he was doing the right thing sacraficing himself. Who knows I'm getting a headache thinking about it and keep losing my line of thought


    Also do we know if Strange saw this exact series of events from the movie or if he jsut saw a path to win and came back and tried to pull that long shot off? I didn't read the interview your talking about with the Russos saying all this. So correct me by all means if they stated more then just Dr Dr Strange lived out all these timelines. Saying that he did sounds like a good way to make him a much better sorcerer quick and also a nod to the (shit 1000year war? Ugh I'm spacing right now) from the comics. Basicaly saying Strange has gained the wisdom and experience of living lifetimes while no time really passed In our earth.
    Last edited by Midvillian1322; 08-21-2019 at 11:51 PM.

  7. #1747
    Astonishing Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    Either way, at least he got snapped so that didnt have to live through those 5 intervening years 14 million times.

  8. #1748
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    Either way, at least he got snapped so that didnt have to live through those 5 intervening years 14 million times.
    Lol if it was random he shouldnt have been dusted in every timeline right? Another thing I'd like them to clarify is TAO states you cant see past your own death..so either the people snapped arent really dead(Which means Thanos and his army arent) and are just stuck in the soul stone or whatever happens to them. Or it's a plothole that Strange could see those futures.

  9. #1749
    Silver Sentinel BeastieRunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    Would love to see that on the BluRay.
    There's a lot of stuff the Russo's said they wished was on the blu-ray. They focused on actual cut scenes, as in, scenes they showed to test audiences.

    I still everyone taking a knee should've been in the whole time!
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  10. #1750
    Silver Sentinel BeastieRunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    Lol if it was random he shouldnt have been dusted in every timeline right? Another thing I'd like them to clarify is TAO states you cant see past your own death..so either the people snapped arent really dead(Which means Thanos and his army arent) and are just stuck in the soul stone or whatever happens to them. Or it's a plothole that Strange could see those futures.
    The MCU uses a condensed version of String Theory in regards to time travel.

    So when Strange traveled to the future(s), he did not interfere so that he would not create a new branch in time, but pre-snap Strange existed in each of those ~14M timelines.

    Does that make sense?
    "Always listen to the crazy scientist with a weird van or armful of blueprints and diagrams." -- Vibranium

  11. #1751
    Loony Scott Taylor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    Maybe he did just stay there. I mean that one time line had to happen the way we saw it anyway. So unless your asking why didnt the movie just jump forward with Strange after he said 1. But for all we know Strange did stay there. And we just watched that one timeline he lived out that worked. He failed a bunch almsot 14million times so yea maybe we just saw it last attempt. He might have spared Tony 100x prior to that but they always fell short till he added the one time line comment to give Tony the confidence he was doing the right thing sacraficing himself. Who knows I'm getting a headache thinking about it and keep losing my line of thought

    Also do we know if Strange saw this exact series of events from the movie or if he jsut saw a path to win and came back and tried to pull that long shot off? I didn't read the interview your talking about with the Russos saying all this. So correct me by all means if they stated more then just Dr Dr Strange lived out all these timelines. Saying that he did sounds like a good way to make him a much better sorcerer quick and also a nod to the (shit 1000year war? Ugh I'm spacing right now) from the comics. Basicaly saying Strange has gained the wisdom and experience of living lifetimes while no time really passed In our earth.
    I'd like to think that Strange saw things mostly from his perspective and only saw variances in what he himself could control. So yes, him revealing what he found to Tony and the team would be a factor. As would him giving the time stone to Thanos.

    The rat always happens exactly that way, since it was purely a random coincidence. Strange wasn't there since he got snapped. Same goes for other things with the time travel - he has no opportunity to accept it or reject it.

    Ok now for some math. This should be a factorial - calculus.

    What Strange was looking at in the future was permutations that totaled to a little over 14,000,000. So 10 factorial is about 3.6 million and 11 factorial is something like 30 million. So the number of decisions Strange makes in his vision of the future is somewhere between 10 and 11, haha. Math, lol.

    But if math applied to these things, thats how it would work. About 10 decisions by Strange.

    10! = 10 x 9 x 8 x 7 x 6 x 5 x 4 x 3 x 2 x 1 = 3,628,800
    11! = 39,916,800

    In short, Strange decided to tell everyone (1), give up the time stone (2) and then made 8 other critical decisions either right before the battle or on the battlefield. Presumably one of the decisions is to bring everyone and their mother to the battle.
    Last edited by Scott Taylor; 08-22-2019 at 11:14 AM.
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  12. #1752
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    I think the big three should have had a scene fighting alongside 'their guys'. Cap, Bucky and Falcon, Tony, Rhodes and Pepper, Thor, Val and Korg, maybe?
    I think any one of those three would have been great (and we did get a piece of one of them with Rescue and Iron Man's back to back thing). All of them tho might have felt a bit forced and overdone.

  13. #1753
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeastieRunner View Post
    There's a lot of stuff the Russo's said they wished was on the blu-ray. They focused on actual cut scenes, as in, scenes they showed to test audiences.

    I still everyone taking a knee should've been in the whole time!
    Would've worked and explained where Gamorra went to.
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  14. #1754
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    Would've worked and explained where Gamorra went to.
    Good point. Until I saw the deleted scenes, I thought Gamorra got Dusted with Thanos.

  15. #1755
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quick question before I forget; do we see how Proxima Midnight dies? Corvus gets killed by Okoye in what should have been a bigger scene. Ebony Maw gets Snapped, we see him die as Thanos watches his forces atomize. And Black Dwarf gets stomped on by Ant-Man. But I haven't caught Midnight's death.

    As for Strange and the 14 million futures......I took it that Strange was "experiencing" these realities as if he were really there, but he wasn't *actually* traveling time; he was just observing it. To him it would "feel" real and he'd experience everything as if it were, but really all he's doing is watching 14 million really super immersive tv shows. He can't change the script, he can just watch.

    So from the moment Strange finishes peering into the future up until Thanos dies, Strange is looking at each development as it happens and winnowing down the outcomes. That's actually pretty fascinating, the idea of Strange watching things he's already witnessed unfold, and doing the math to see if they're still on the right path. "Thanos just threw a moon, that means all these possible futures don't happen because he never threw the moon in those." "The dam broke at this particular location, conveniently next to me, which means these futures might still happen while these other ones don't." He saw futures where he tried to use future-sight to form a game plan with Tony and it backfired. He saw futures where he didn't hold up one finger at the end, and Thanos won. He saw futures where the dam breaks in a different location, and they drown. Etc etc. And as the actual events unfold, Strange is just following the narrative; he knows what has to happen to win, and he knows what he does at each juncture, so all he can do is wait for each development and hope like hell it's the winning one, then do whatever he remembers doing the first time he experienced the winning timeline.

    Oh, as for Mordo, he said the bill always come due. Now, we know Thanos could track the stones, but it seems he needed them to unleash a powerful blast first so his sensors could identify them. That's why he could pinpoint the space and mind stone's locations; he already knew their signatures, but couldn't find the soul stone (no one had used it, so there's no energy to identify and track). So, presumably if Thanos had known the time stone was a few blocks away in Avengers 1, he'd have made a much more concentrated effort to get it, right? We see TAO defending the Sanctum in Endgame, but it seems to just be from random chaos, the Chitari aren't focused on her. So my question is this; when Strange uses the time stone to stop Dormammu, is *that* the powerful burst of energy Thanos needed to locate the stone? I tell you what, if Thanos was able to find the time stone because of Strange and Dormammu, then Mordo really is right; that bill came due and it cost everyone a whole damn lot.
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